SHOCKING NEWS!!!

pnwmystery said:
Actually single payer systems lead to innovation because what happens is they try to save money for everyone. So then they go out to the medical companies and they say: What's the best, most reliable, and cheapest thing you can make? Then they pick that one which is the best for everyone. Yeah, sorry, another thing I studied and you've given me a rudimentary/elementary argument for.
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Then why do people come to America for some of the best treatment in the world? You have this one completely backwards. Single payer systems are cumbersome and not innovative as there is no real competition rather simply political competition.
 
NLXSK1 said:
Then why do people come to America for some of the best treatment in the world? You have this one completely backwards. Single payer systems are cumbersome and not innovative as there is no real competition rather simply political competition.
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Rofl who the hell said America has the best treatment in the world? We don't. Our healthcare system has some of the best doctors, but overall it is not the best. Single payer systems are not cumbersome, and they are innovative because there is competition. Competition to land the contract, duh.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...e-most-expensive-and-worst-performing/372828/

http://time.com/2888403/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world/
http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/newsdesk/u-s-health-care-is-best-worst
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-the-us-healthcare-system-20140617-column.html
http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/...st-countries-for-medical-care.html/?a=viewall
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...zations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/
http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/11-countries-with-the-best-healthcare-in-the-world-350151/
 
Yes, I keep seeing articles about how poor our healthcare system is yet then rich world leaders fly here to have operations done.

Excuse me if I dont believe most if not all of the propaganda.

If you want a truly innovative and cost effective system you need competition by private companies unhindered by the government. We have yet to come close to trying that in this country. A few small examples of success are Lasix eye surgery and Theranos blood testing. But to say we have competition here in the US is a joke.
 
NLXSK1 said:
Yes, I keep seeing articles about how poor our healthcare system is yet then rich world leaders fly here to have operations done.

Excuse me if I dont believe most if not all of the propaganda.

If you want a truly innovative and cost effective system you need competition by private companies unhindered by the government. We have yet to come close to trying that in this country. A few small examples of success are Lasix eye surgery and Theranos blood testing. But to say we have competition here in the US is a joke.
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The development and precursor research for LASIK (Lasix is used for something else) was developed in Colombia and Russia. Theranos is based off of software developed in Singapore for SARs detection.

Yeah, stop sucking down your FoxNews it's you that's listening to propaganda.
 
pnwmystery said:
The development and precursor research for LASIK (Lasix is used for something else) was developed in Colombia and Russia. Theranos is based off of software developed in Singapore for SARs detection.

Yeah, stop sucking down your FoxNews it's you that's listening to propaganda.
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I rarely watch fox news anymore. Lets avoid the insults, it was a good discussion up to this point.

Great, the research was done somewhere else but I wasnt talking about that. I was talking about the decline in the cost of the treatments and the ease and availability. If it is possible for other companies to model what Theranos is doing then competition will drive the price down even further. It is an example of the private market making advances where the majority of the medical system is bureaucratically bound and incapable of anything approaching efficiency.

I think we both want the same thing which is high quality healthcare at affordable prices. We just are at polar opposites about how to go about it.
 
pnwmystery said:
I'm saying that it's probably a false illusion, or Republicans are more likely to be more vocal about it thus creating an illusory statement. You know how you only hear the monkeys that howl the loudest in the jungle? ;)

My premiums went from $300/month down to $124/month. Moreover my medication for a rare autoimmune went from just around $5,000 ($2,000 out of pocket) every 8 weeks to $30.

Also if I want to change my health insurance I can! And I won't be afraid that the next insurer can go, "Nope! Autoimmune disease, preexisting condition, no insurance for you."
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How much money do you make? My insurance has.been going every year. Last year was 260 for gold and this year it's 370 for gold.or 320 for a silver plan bcbs
 
NLXSK1 said:
I rarely watch fox news anymore. Lets avoid the insults, it was a good discussion up to this point.

Great, the research was done somewhere else but I wasnt talking about that. I was talking about the decline in the cost of the treatments and the ease and availability. If it is possible for other companies to model what Theranos is doing then competition will drive the price down even further. It is an example of the private market making advances where the majority of the medical system is bureaucratically bound and incapable of anything approaching efficiency.

I think we both want the same thing which is high quality healthcare at affordable prices. We just are at polar opposites about how to go about it.
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Treatments here are way more expensive. Were you to have read the articles you'd see that while an MIR in the US costs $1,000-$1,500 in France it costs about $300. Moreover were you to have picked any of the articles, or even googled "Cost of Healthcare in the United States" or even say, "cost of treatment options in the United States" you'd find the second article on google reads somewhere farther down that: "Newly approved cancer drugs cost an average of $10,000 per month, with some therapies topping $30,000 per month, according to ASCO, which discussed the costs of cancer care at a recent meeting. Just a decade ago, the average cost per month of new drugs was about $4,500. Patients typically pay 20 to 30 percent out of pocket for drugs, so an average year's worth of new drugs would cost $24,000 to $36,000 in addition to health insurance premiums."

Or say, if you looked up the price of Gleevec a medication used to treat Leukemia you'd find out that it costs $70,000 per year here in the United States whereas in India it costs $2,500 a year.

Did you know if I needed to get my hip replaced it would be cheaper for me to fly to Spain, get my hip replaced, and fly back than get it replaced here in the United States? Average hip replacement cost here in the US is $40,364, average hip replacement cost in Spain is $7,371.

We could have avoided aaalll of this had you read the articles or done some research yourself.
 
@NLXSK1 Just like when it comes to Communism when the right goes, "It only works in an ideal world, with ideal conditions, devoid of human greed," freemarket capitalism driving innovation and driving down costs and making everything affordable while not exploiting workers and driving up a middle class, etc. etc., in reality "only works in an ideal world, with ideal conditions, devoid of human greed." Super simple concept.
 
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