Should I Measure pH directly in soil or from run-off water?

^Slanty said:

Only thing I can add, is he needs to water WAY LESS frequently! Depending on the size of the pots and plants, you should only be watering every 3-5 days! Not every single day! That was more than likely the only issue you were experiencing until you started adding PH+ for no reason!

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Actually, before the adding of the pH+ (which indeed really was for no reason) I did water them exactly every 3-5 Days. It's 3 gallon pots and the plants are 2-3 feet.
And on many other threads and sites have I read that you should water every day. That and the reason my nutes (Green House Seeds Powder Feeding) is supposed to be added only every other watering, made me think that this way the plants only get to feed say once every 7-10 Days. I thought that sounded little, and honestly they really seem to like it better when I water everyday or once every other day (which also happens, but mostly its once a day).

But since I also had this problem with pH+ and that's when I started to water every day, right in the middle of this problem. And the plants did get better, but as it always goes it's hard to make a plant completely return from injury, so it's not like they are perfect now. Although some dodged the bullet completely, two plants are litte damaged and two others are more damaged but still hanging in there. But I cant really say if the switching to watering every day was the actual reason for the recovery because at the same time I aslo quit the pH+ thing.

So I just flushed them and they will take 4-6 Days to dry out and then I will change to watering once every 3-4 Days and compare the difference. Because none here seems to agree with the every day watering, I'll give it a try. Thanks again mates.

My plants are watered every day but is an auto drip system that never overdoes it. When the soil reaches some specified dryness it gives them some water. Little to no run off ever but plants have never been thirsty. My guess is that so long as things get dry and are roots aren't marinating all the time, you can go either way.

GrowinDad said:

My plants are watered every day but is an auto drip system that never overdoes it. When the soil reaches some specified dryness it gives them some water. Little to no run off ever but plants have never been thirsty. My guess is that so long as things get dry and are roots aren't marinating all the time, you can go either way.

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My point exactly, eventhough I water every day they don't get overwatered and the soil also has time to dry out between waterings, and I water them with the right amount so they don't get any run-off (or very very Little) I feel its easier to monitor the amount of water/nutes you give the plants.

But if I understand this buffering effect correctly, the soil ph is lowered when watered then the soil buffers the ph levels back to normal and that takes some amount of hours. If you water a little less frequent the soil can keep its ph levels more balanced for a longer period of time, based on what was said here but also on other treads with similar topics. That's why I'm gonna try to water every 3-4 days and compare how the pH behaves.

Alexander Supertramp said:

Runoff pH will tell you nothing accurate as the water passes through the medium too fast to actually buffer to it true pH. Usually what you get is a low reading due to the fact as the water passed through the medium it picked up excess salts, thats what cause a generally low reading. It has nothing to do with the mediums actual pH. Getting a soil test and actually testing it is the only way to get an accurate reading of the mediums pH.
pHing your feeding solutions is pretty much just in vein also. No matter what you pH it too it will buffer to the soils pH in less than an hour. You can pour all the pHed water you want to through a pot and the only change in pH it will make will pertain to the amount of excess salts leached from the medium, not because you poured a certain pH water through it. Plain, un-pHed water would have accomplished the same exact thing.
Dolomite lime in your mix from the start is your best friend. It will keep the pH in range for you. EWC also do a great job of this. And the two used in conjunction you cant go wrong. I water my plants with 7.8 pH well water straight from the tap and never have an issue.
So my question to you is how do your plants look? Any signs of a pH issue, leaf twisting, necrotic stripes in the margins of the leaves ect? If not I would panic too much. Read your plants not a bunch of meters when growing in soil.

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If your watering correctly and using a wetting agent, run off can be accurate enough for our purpose. Both in hydro and soil.

For our purpoe, checking the ph comming out is just a guide line for the ph going in.

Adjust accordingly and over a few waterings you will see your run off comming back to where you want it. Take your time do it a little at a time and you will soon find out where your water should be in conjunction to your run off

You want your medium to be ph correctly, everybody thinks adjust your ph in your water is the goal but its not, learning to ph correctly is the difference between a good crop and a great crop.

This might be too simple. When I make a batch of soil..I save some before I plant. And check it. I even water it when I water my plants and check it again. And them I might get bored and check it again. Makes me feel better and gives me something to do.Why put the plant in there if you are guessing about PH.
I check my filter Ph water once a week.
I have a digital, PH up/down liquid test, and a soil test. Run anytime I do a batch of soil.

topfuel29 said:

you only water until you start to see a few drop coming out of your drain holes. If you have 3-4 ounces of water pouring out your drain holes, your giving your plant to much water. Like I said in my post you didn't read correctly.

"Your growing in soil. So measure the soil.if you have enough run-off water to measure the Ph than you over-watered.

It takes 3-4 ounces to measure your run-off Ph. It's not a flush.... It's just a watering.







This guy is an example of some one that doesn't know how to read. Or know how much water it takes to measure your run-off Ph.

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fuck off mate, stop bullshitting, you need what 125ml of water to check ph, go away nobody likes you

topfuel29 said:

Did you even read what I wrote? The part where I said measure the soil Ph? Your right Ph'ing your run off is worthless. Ph'ing your nutrient solution to 6.5, (which isn't even correct, soil Ph should be 6. is not going to keep your soil constantly at that Ph. Like I said before if you grow in soil you check the Ph of your soil. Checking your solution Ph before hand is a given.

the 10% rule of thumb. I bet if you go to 10 different site you'll get 10 different rules if thumb for watering.

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go look at the chart that tells you what nutes can be absorbed through each level of ph, 6.5 is the best now fuck off seriously, spreading bullshit aroound like bmeat

hotrodharley said:

Do you know what overwatering is? A single drop from the bottom is a sign the medium is saturated, it is no longer accepting water, and it is then shedding it. How much more do you think is needed and why? I am assuming (dangerous I know) that most growers are smart enough to slowly add their water over the entire surface and not just dump it in. The roots on the bottom you are worried about will receive much more water over the next few hours.

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I just noticed this post and want to ask HRH if he knows what over watering is.

OVER WATERING is caused by watering too frequently. NOT by applying too much water when needed. What do you all think the drain holes are for? The medium will hold what it will hold, nothing more, nothing less. Gravity and drain holes tend the rest for us. And no matter what pH your drench is it has no true affect or control over the mediums pH.

Sir.Ganga said:

If your watering correctly and using a wetting agent, run off can be accurate enough for our purpose. Both in hydro and soil.

For our purpoe, checking the ph comming out is just a guide line for the ph going in.

Adjust accordingly and over a few waterings you will see your run off comming back to where you want it. Take your time do it a little at a time and you will soon find out where your water should be in conjunction to your run off

You want your medium to be ph correctly, everybody thinks adjust your ph in your water is the goal but its not, learning to ph correctly is the difference between a good crop and a great crop.

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It's amazing you can even grow, all your advise is always assbackwards, you disagree with everything, you should stop trying so hard to teach, because your advise is shit.

Don't pH at all, have not in years. Growing in organic soil, which is alive.

A lot of things alter the pH of the soil solution. Various chemical reactions take place in soil all the time, but especially after you water. Base cations that plants absorb as nutrients like Ca, Mg, K, Na etc. will increase pH. Bacteria produce bio-slime to protect them and it is alkaline. Fungi produce organic acids and enzymes to dissolve minerals; plant roots also exude weak organic acids, carbohydrates and other substances to attract microbes and increase nutrient availability. Plant roots also exchange hydronium (H+), hydroxide (OH-) or bicarbonate(HCO3-) ions for the nutrients they need. Microbes are doing that as well.

The nutrient chart doesn't say that 6.5 is perfect, it infers that all of those needed nutrients are more or less available between 6.2 - 7.5 and slightly beyond. Of course, soil couldn't really have a homogenous pH largely for the reasons mentioned. And plenty of things thrive on Earth in different soils, because other things are at play.

How I test run-off. When I water, I use 1/2 the water I'm going to use and wait about 15 minutes, then water the rest and use a probe in the run-off, you should expect .5 -1 pt of drop off. I ph balance my water after adding nutes to 6.5 and expect to see 5.5 - 6.0 in the run-off. I use Smart-pots and FFOF soil, makes for good drainage.

I did ebb/flow with a res for a couple of years and really battled PH, in my 2nd soil grow I have found that careful prep of my water is all I need.

Alexander Supertramp said:

Runoff pH will tell you nothing accurate as the water passes through the medium too fast to actually buffer to it true pH. Usually what you get is a low reading due to the fact as the water passed through the medium it picked up excess salts, thats what cause a generally low reading. It has nothing to do with the mediums actual pH. Getting a soil test and actually testing it is the only way to get an accurate reading of the mediums pH.
pHing your feeding solutions is pretty much just in vein also. No matter what you pH it too it will buffer to the soils pH in less than an hour. You can pour all the pHed water you want to through a pot and the only change in pH it will make will pertain to the amount of excess salts leached from the medium, not because you poured a certain pH water through it. Plain, un-pHed water would have accomplished the same exact thing.
Dolomite lime in your mix from the start is your best friend. It will keep the pH in range for you. EWC also do a great job of this. And the two used in conjunction you cant go wrong. I water my plants with 7.8 pH well water straight from the tap and never have an issue.
So my question to you is how do your plants look? Any signs of a pH issue, leaf twisting, necrotic stripes in the margins of the leaves ect? If not I would panic too much. Read your plants not a bunch of meters when growing in soil.

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Thats funny cuz I added lime and watered with tap water which comes out 7.8 ph and my plants got nute lock out and all their leaves started turning yellow and dropping off even tho I was feeding nutes. Now I ph my water and I don't have that issue.

BigHitGuy420 said:

Thats funny cuz I added lime and watered with tap water which comes out 7.8 ph and my plants got nute lock out and all their leaves started turning yellow and dropping off even tho I was feeding nutes. Now I ph my water and I don't have that issue.

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Old thread. pH is important, you know that first hand. Keep up the good growing!

Renfro said:

Old thread. pH is important, you know that first hand. Keep up the good growing!

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Lol yeah I didn't even look at the date. Thanks man.

Renfro said:

Old thread. pH is important, you know that first hand. Keep up the good growing!

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Dammit ... beat me to it again ... fuuuuuccckkk !
Plants long dead .

Hello everyone, I've read this whole thread carefully (I know it's old), and I'm still confused.
I started my grow a week ago, using Plagron light mix (6-7ph on package).
I've added water at around 6.5.-6.7 in the first watering.

I got a runoff of 5.3-5.5 in 2 plants and i stopped there since I dont know if Im doing something bad. My other few plants are waiting for the water but I'm scared, I tried on the third plant with distilled water and same result..
Idk how it can be so low, when soil and the water-in are way higher ph then what runoff was..

Is it really the salts that the water pulled so that's why ph of runoff is so low, and it actually isnt as important as the water-in ph and soil ph?

I measured the soil ph with a ph soil meter (sticked it in while it was wet) , it gave me 6.0-6.5 ph of the soil..

But Im not sure if to trust this soil ph meter, I'm reading many different things and opinions on the internet..

Please help if anybody has the knowledge, this is really giving me headaches

Thanks

Soil and lime buffer the medium making ph unnecessary in soil
It’s expensive to get a soil ph probe that actually works
You just need to use well water