Should I start growing organic?

Hi guys, so I've been thinking about going organic for a little while now and I've been reading tons of stuff on here and around other forums and it sounds to me like I'd like to try organic growing eventually as I like the idea of a no till rols style grow.

I'm only just a month through my first harvest and im now about a month into flower for the second time so I'm not exactly "highly experienced" which is one reason I'm thinking it might be an idea to just stick with what I know for a bit until I get some more experience then start changing things up. The way things are right now I'll be moving within a year anyway most likely and have to set up a new grow then so essentially my first question is is it worth it to try and dive into this and start growing organic before I move or should I just ride my synthetic coco grow set up out until I relocate and then start with organics.

My second question, assuming that I do go organic is how effective would a primarily coco/rice hull/worm casting mix do with ammendments and what ammendments should I add to really build the soil up because I'm not in the states or anything so my choices of soil are between biobizz (light or all mix) and plant magic soil supreme and I dont really want perlite in my mix because I've read it breaks down pretty fast so that kinda puts biobizz out of the race and I dont know if plant magic soil supreme is a good soil for a the rols grow that I want to run.

Anyway any help would be much appreciated I've been trying to gather as much info as I can but theres just sooooooo much and its making my head spin so an opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about would be great!

rnint said:

Hi guys, so I've been thinking about going organic for a little while now and I've been reading tons of stuff on here and around other forums and it sounds to me like I'd like to try organic growing eventually as I like the idea of a no till rols style grow.

I'm only just a month through my first harvest and im now about a month into flower for the second time so I'm not exactly "highly experienced" which is one reason I'm thinking it might be an idea to just stick with what I know for a bit until I get some more experience then start changing things up. The way things are right now I'll be moving within a year anyway most likely and have to set up a new grow then so essentially my first question is is it worth it to try and dive into this and start growing organic before I move or should I just ride my synthetic coco grow set up out until I relocate and then start with organics.

My second question, assuming that I do go organic is how effective would a primarily coco/rice hull/worm casting mix do with ammendments and what ammendments should I add to really build the soil up because I'm not in the states or anything so my choices of soil are between biobizz (light or all mix) and plant magic soil supreme and I dont really want perlite in my mix because I've read it breaks down pretty fast so that kinda puts biobizz out of the race and I dont know if plant magic soil supreme is a good soil for a the rols grow that I want to run.

Anyway any help would be much appreciated I've been trying to gather as much info as I can but theres just sooooooo much and its making my head spin so an opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about would be great!

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not sure where you are hearing perlite breaks down...
it doesn't.
If you want to get your feet wet, i'd just use a good quality bagged soil, and if you want to go further, then maybe after a run or two, i'd step it up to a custom made soil.

greasemonkeymann said:

not sure where you are hearing perlite breaks down...
it doesn't.
If you want to get your feet wet, i'd just use a good quality bagged soil, and if you want to go further, then maybe after a run or two, i'd step it up to a custom made soil.

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Perlite breaks down when squished by A LOT of weight. There's some science that suggests that it does leach aluminium oxide when the soil (even micro pockets) ph is below ~4.
If I were you I'd make the transition once you move. That way you can use up what you've bought and not have to move any extras.
That mix will grow you some decent cannabis. For amendments I'd start with kelp meal, alfalfa meal and diversify it once you get a run or two of organics under your belt. Though I would highly suggest adding something like oyster shell flour for a soil buffer. You can use dolomite lime, but long term oyster shell flour is what you want.
Be aware that rice hulls will eventually break down completely, but that takes a few runs. You can vary your aeration by substituting a portion for lava rock, biochar (no more than like ~15% of your total mix), rotten wood, etc. But rice hulls will get you through a few runs before you have to worry about compaction. Which at that point you'll probably recycle your soil into a more diverse mix like most of us who slowly stepped into organics, so don't worry much about that.

I like growstones and biochar for aeration amendments

Midwest Weedist said:

Perlite breaks down when squished by A LOT of weight. There's some science that suggests that it does leach aluminium oxide when the soil (even micro pockets) ph is below ~4.
If I were you I'd make the transition once you move. That way you can use up what you've bought and not have to move any extras.
That mix will grow you some decent cannabis. For amendments I'd start with kelp meal, alfalfa meal and diversify it once you get a run or two of organics under your belt. Though I would highly suggest adding something like oyster shell flour for a soil buffer. You can use dolomite lime, but long term oyster shell flower is what you want.
Be aware that rice hulls will eventually break down completely, but that takes a few runs. You can vary your aeration by substituting a portion for lava rock, biochar (no more than like ~15% of your total mix), rotten wood, etc. But if rice hulls will get you through a few runs before you have to worry about compaction. Which at that point you'll probably recycle your soil into a more diverse mix like most of us who slowly stepped into organics, so don't worry much about that.

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yea.. same thing with azomite..
but if your ph is that low... your plants are loooooong dead.
I mean, I haven't PHed anything in decades, but still, I don't think it gets quite that acidic.
And if he is lookin at rice hulls, I would recommend perlite over that... if it getting squished is an issue..
volcanic rock, is the best. in my experience anyways..
Annnd i'd never do a run without my biochar and rotted wood chunks either...
I go with volcanic rock, perlite, pumice, biochar, and rotted wood chunks.
Funny thing is, the compost I make is AWESOME for aeration, you wouldn't think so, but it is.

Midwest Weedist said:

Perlite breaks down when squished by A LOT of weight. There's some science that suggests that it does leach aluminium oxide when the soil (even micro pockets) ph is below ~4.
If I were you I'd make the transition once you move. That way you can use up what you've bought and not have to move any extras.
That mix will grow you some decent cannabis. For amendments I'd start with kelp meal, alfalfa meal and diversify it once you get a run or two of organics under your belt. Though I would highly suggest adding something like oyster shell flour for a soil buffer. You can use dolomite lime, but long term oyster shell flour is what you want.
Be aware that rice hulls will eventually break down completely, but that takes a few runs. You can vary your aeration by substituting a portion for lava rock, biochar (no more than like ~15% of your total mix), rotten wood, etc. But rice hulls will get you through a few runs before you have to worry about compaction. Which at that point you'll probably recycle your soil into a more diverse mix like most of us who slowly stepped into organics, so don't worry much about that.

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Wow thanks everyone for the replies, so I'm actually also running low on coco and my nutrients atm which is sorta why I was thinking about transitioning over to organic because either way I'm going to have to buy new fertilizer and growing medium. But are you guys saying I should just use biobizz then? Also with the kelp meal and alfalfa meal will that be enough nutrients for me to just water from beggining to end or will I then have to use a bunch of liquid fertilizers as well later on? Also what should I do in terms of introducing a microherd, my plan was to make a compost tea for the soil and also to add earthworms, are there other things I would need to introduce or would that be ok? Essentially I think so long as I can find good enough quality materials and stuff I'll probably end up going for it as organic buds would be very welcome, its just that being in the UK I don't have access to a lot of stuff you guys in the states do and so if what I can get here isnt really good enough/ will give me problems then I'd rather just continue the coco but otherwise I'll happily swap over to organics.Also bit of a random question but what do you guys think of diatomaceous earth? It's one of the few things I have availible and I read about using it to combat certain types of pests but I'm not sure if it would harm the microherd or not... At the moment anyway I'm thinking biobizz all mix (light mix for seedlings though), kelp meal, alfalfa meal, worm castings, biochar, azomite, dolomite lime and maybe diatomaceous earth. what am I missing?

rnint said:

Wow thanks everyone for the replies, so I'm actually also running low on coco and my nutrients atm which is sorta why I was thinking about transitioning over to organic because either way I'm going to have to buy new fertilizer and growing medium. But are you guys saying I should just use biobizz then? Also with the kelp meal and alfalfa meal will that be enough nutrients for me to just water from beggining to end or will I then have to use a bunch of liquid fertilizers as well later on? Also what should I do in terms of introducing a microherd, my plan was to make a compost tea for the soil and also to add earthworms, are there other things I would need to introduce or would that be ok? Essentially I think so long as I can find good enough quality materials and stuff I'll probably end up going for it as organic buds would be very welcome, its just that being in the UK I don't have access to a lot of stuff you guys in the states do and so if what I can get here isnt really good enough/ will give me problems then I'd rather just continue the coco but otherwise I'll happily swap over to organics.Also bit of a random question but what do you guys think of diatomaceous earth? It's one of the few things I have availible and I read about using it to combat certain types of pests but I'm not sure if it would harm the microherd or not... At the moment anyway I'm thinking biobizz all mix (light mix for seedlings though), kelp meal, alfalfa meal, worm castings, biochar, azomite, dolomite lime and maybe diatomaceous earth. what am I missing?

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you could go without the d-lime.
DE is harmless to the microbial life.
kelp and alfalfa won't be enough to go beginning to end.
I prefer peat or a compost base over a coco base.
Diatamacous earth is alright, but personally I don't use, but only because I don't need to, it helps with crawling pests and fungus gnats.

I would wait if your going to move. Set everything up as normal Just in case then get into organics. Your best bet would be to start off with composted manure and mix that with the bagged soil, later on if you want to delve deeper you can. I like to mix it up and store it in large trashcans for a couple months before using. Do you know anyone that has a farm? Maybe you could do some work in exchange for manure. Super soil is another option but you should still let it sit for a couple months plus its expensive.

Start worm bin to get it going while finishing off bottles so when you do switch you will be somewhat prepared

Thanks for all the advice guys! So I think im going to take dr. peckers advice and wait until I move, just too much stuff id have to buy (im pretty skint and already have things I urgently need to spend money on when I get it) to actually make it work plus the wait time and then buying all the stuff again after I move, i duno it just seemed like too much effort for not enough reward. I like the idea of starting a worm bin though ill do that as soon as I move (probably going to be moving to another country so I dont want to start until I get there).

Good luck brother. Don't give up what you know. Learn the new and really let it sink in. I recommend a book to everyone its worth the $20

Dr.Pecker said:

Good luck brother. Don't give up what you know. Learn the new and really let it sink in. I recommend a book to everyone its worth the $20 View attachment 3476996

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Already about 100 pages in! It's a very dense book though takes me a while to really understand what hes saying some of the time haha

Ask questions here

Dr.Pecker said:

Good luck brother. Don't give up what you know. Learn the new and really let it sink in. I recommend a book to everyone its worth the $20 View attachment 3476996

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I second this. That book is a goldmine of information.

Hi rnint,

bit of a late reply, but may still be helpful if you don't move abroad. I recently made the transition to rols/no till and yeah it's a real bummer trying to get hold of most of the amendments here. I'd definitely wait till you've moved cos, depending on the size of grow you're planning, mixing and moving big batches of soil is hard work, although I'd advise to start planning/researching available amendments where ever you are planning to move to.

If you do stay UK, here's a couple of good suppliers I've found

http://www.willyworms.co.uk/ - These are primarily fishing bait suppliers but they also sell good quality fresh worm castings with bright yellow fresh eggs and even the odd healthy worm here and there, this stuff is so good and cheap (£6 for 20L), if I'd have found it earlier I may never have started my worm bins + they also sell nice healthy dendro composting worms for starting your own worm farm. My last order was 80L WCasts + 1/2kg of medium dendro's and came to £39 including postage and was on my doorstep with 2 days.
(I know tiger worms are supposed to be better composters, but I ordered some TW off the only supplier of these i could find here and they arrived in 'sealed plastic bags' wtf? and they looked far from healthy, I can't see any of them through the dendro's when I go through my bins and doubt any are still alive)

https://www.organiccatalogue.com/ - This place is a gold mine for good stuff - neem meal, seaweed meal, comfrey pellets, gypsum, bio char, rockdust, biological pest control and many other organic goodies.

For compost I'd recommend searching for a local smaller scale supplier of topsoil and compost, they usually only deliver locally or you can call in and pick up which would also make it cheaper than the crap from B&Q. A good example of this would be http://www.tommytopsoil.com/ , They supply a far superior product than can be bought from the big retailers. Hydrostore compost is overpriced but may be an easy way to start, I've no direct experience with it (being ex-coco only), but I know people have good grows with biobizz.

Another good place for amendments is the local pet shop, or more specifically an animal feed store. Here you can find all kinds of stuff that can be used - oyster shell meal (does need to be crushed up a bit) - organic alfalfa pellets(the same) - seaweed meal - molasses - hay(for mulch) - DE - seed for sst's

There's also the obvious local garden centre, although some are better than others, most will carry the basic organic fertilizers like fish/blood/bone meal and pelletised chicken shit but the better ones will have more a diverse selection as well as things like rock dust and Mycos.

The only amendments I cant really get hold of here are crabshell meal, greensand and azomite, they are available online, but only shipped from USA as far as I can find (and I cannot justify shipping crushed up rocks and shells across the atlantic).
For the crabshell meal, I've decided to substitute with Insect frass, which while supplying a different spectrum of nutrients, does supply a decent amount of chitin which is a lot of the attraction in crab meal. This was bought from a hydro store, they're hard places to give up totally I suppose and they do stock essential stuff you just can't get anywhere else here like fabric pots, lights, tents etc....

Anyway, hope this was helpful and good luck in your future endeavours

Azomite you can get on Ebay, imported from France
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AZOMITE-pure-TERRALBA-1kg-2L-germination-racines-fleurs-fertilisant-naturel-/262022911881?hash=item3d01c85789:g:P2gAAOSwYHxWMRTJ