shriveled brown hairs week 2

hey all...i've been a grow journal and normally don't look for help but since this crop seemed to be going pretty well i figured i'd give it a shot.

stage: week2 flowering 10-12"
nutes: 1.9 EC total .3 calmag .6 koolbloom liquid and 1.0 heavy 16 regular a/b.
additives: hygrozyme/rhizotonic
temperatures: regulated electronic, room 75F 98% of the time, temperature of the leaves measured with a fluke 561 is always between 75-80
lights: running 1000w bulbs on 50% right now, height is around 18 inches

when i noticed, i ran 1/4 strength nutes without booster for 3 days, and as of today have switched back to 1.7 regular flowering nutes.

why i'm asking for help is most of the research i do says pollination or heat and i know that's not it. i've grown clone off the same mom and it didnt' do this. also, i'm more familiar with diagnosing based off the leaves, and can't find much info on what would cause new hairs to shrivel and die like this while only 2 weeks in. no males anywhere close, nutes are typical, temperatures are on? i'm wondering if i didn't use too much koolbloom maybe? it happened after i added koolbloom, but i'm not sure, obviously koolbloom is a good product and will work fine without killing hair. if any gurus have run across this particular symptom, i'd like to hear what you thought caused it

i've pictures of the problem, and pictures i took maybe 4 days before the problem started, but as i've been documenting things ok please check out


CLICK LINK BELOW THIS LINE
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/460006-fav-strain-sog-grow-san.html

thanks

Do you foliare feed? Do you have enough air movement in the room. And last, You are running 1.9 EC. That is pretty dame high. You can only feed a plant so much food and it peaks. What is the conditions within your medium? Hmmm, what is the medium?

1.9EC is not high. you can run that all the way through flower no prob's. should be a perfect grow. If he were in soil (and not hydro) 1.9EC would be pretty low.

I'm not sure what this is... my choice would have been fertilisation by pollen, but that would obviously be wrong. everything is fine, it wouldn't be the kool bloom or whatever. this could just be an isolated incident caused through some type of stress. so long as it isn't spreading/getting worse then ignore it, put it down to stress.

thanks for the ideas so far, but please only comment if you are familiar with the technique and things i use. 1.9 EC is not too high for hydro, (this plant, maybe, hydro in general, no) and since ppm isn't constant its around 1000 or 1400 ppm depending on the scale your meter uses to convert EC to ppm. also, i do state i use hydrocorn medium in my thread i linked originally, please read it as more information is in there. i also have a few rotating fans in there as well as 700cfm extraction fan.

@skunkushybrid01
if it is stress then there has to be factor, and i would like to know what variable it could be...everything looks and feels great that i can see.

just don't know any deficiencies/toxicity that affect that hairs...

also i'm growing for 2 years and here's a pic of one of my wider nugs, so i'm not a n00b, just a stumped medium skilled grower, thanks

MrGhettoGrower said:

I didn't see where he stated his method or growing medium using? It looks like dirt to me The PPM or E.C. is about the same in dirt or hydro isn't? 1.9 E.C. is what just under 2e.c. which is 1400 ppms that is really high for an 18" plant no matter the method~

Click to expand...

soil needs a higher EC because nutrients are not as available. In fact in hydro you can get away with feeding just 25% of what you need to in soil. In soil nutrients are lost through seepage, evaporation and generally just locking each other out (one ion at a time). In soil only around 1/3rd of the nutes you pour in will be utilised by the plant. No idea why you're laughing about the hydro thing when he clearly is in hydro... just look at the pix.

@dragonpuff... it could have been anything mate. Plants react strangely to stress and i have seen pistil death before. You have everything down... are there any male balls around? could be the plant has herm'ed slightly. if not, just put it down to stress. even brushing against the plants is enough to stress them out.

So if your plant gets brushed up against, they might stress so bad they will hermie? I find this very hard to believe. If so they would all most all be hermies from the wind blowing and such. I believe most peoples hermies are not so. Either that or I am just really, really good at growing, or really, really lucky. Because out of a couple hundred plants i have yet to see a hermie. And from time to time i have Left lights on, broken the main stock, all kinds of the things that people say might make your plant a hermie. I know for a fact a lot of people throw out plants thinking they are males. I know, because I have gotten a pretty good number of these plants and gotten sweet Sensi buds from them. I think a lot of people are just Hermiephobic.

Also, just because he has his plants in a hydro tray does not mean he is growing hydro. I have seen nut cases fill those trays with dirt and grow multi plants in them. See I never assume anything with people that are having troubles. And I know of a lot of strains that will almost burst into flames with just 900 PPM, which is a lot lower then what he is feeding. A lot of new and slightly skilled growers are like some of the people that take medications. If one pill helps them 6 should really help me. Not saying that this is what he has done, but it is a possibility. Everytime I try a new strain or nutrients, I start out at about 25% nuts at 3 weeks and slowly increase it over time to find out what that strain wants or how strong that new nutrients is. And I keep a detailed Personal Journal. I never feed a new strain according to what I fed a past strain. One strain might drink down 1,600 PPM like Cool-Aid, while another will burst into flames at just the sight of the nutrients.

So take what you want or need and leave the rest.

Lord Dangly Bits said:

So if your plant gets brushed up against, they might stress so bad they will hermie? I find this very hard to believe. If so they would all most all be hermies from the wind blowing and such. I believe most peoples hermies are not so. Either that or I am just really, really good at growing, or really, really lucky. Because out of a couple hundred plants i have yet to see a hermie. And from time to time i have Left lights on, broken the main stock, all kinds of the things that people say might make your plant a hermie. I know for a fact a lot of people throw out plants thinking they are males. I know, because I have gotten a pretty good number of these plants and gotten sweet Sensi buds from them. I think a lot of people are just Hermiephobic.

Also, just because he has his plants in a hydro tray does not mean he is growing hydro. I have seen nut cases fill those trays with dirt and grow multi plants in them. See I never assume anything with people that are having troubles. And I know of a lot of strains that will almost burst into flames with just 900 PPM, which is a lot lower then what he is feeding. A lot of new and slightly skilled growers are like some of the people that take medications. If one pill helps them 6 should really help me. Not saying that this is what he has done, but it is a possibility. Everytime I try a new strain or nutrients, I start out at about 25% nuts at 3 weeks and slowly increase it over time to find out what that strain wants or how strong that new nutrients is. And I keep a detailed Personal Journal. I never feed a new strain according to what I fed a past strain. One strain might drink down 1,600 PPM like Cool-Aid, while another will burst into flames at just the sight of the nutrients.

So take what you want or need and leave the rest.

Click to expand...

Hi LDB... all flowering female plants are hermies. every single one... it just takes a certain amount of stress to cause the hermie gene to kick in. Yes, simply brushing against your plants is enough to stress them out... plants can get crushed by large animals walking against them. it's stressful. This could be enough too to cause a herm reaction. depends on the stability of the plant.

900PPM will burst plants into flames? wtf? even a sensitive sativa could survive 900ppm. what do you mean by 900ppm anyway? what EC is that? there are 3 conversions from EC to PPM... so saying PPM to me could mean one of three different things. EC is the standard that PPM is converted from.

start out at 25% nutes.... wtf are you talking about? you go from PPM to using 25% of something... ffs, this conversation is going right down hill.

FYI... especially in veg' you can pretty much feed a plant what you like. I have started seedlings in a 3.2EC concentration. during veg it is better to critical feed as this will cause the plant to grow stockier, thicker stems... rich green leaves. only in flower do you need to be careful. as depending on your medium, there could be a build-up of nutrients taking the plant closer towards it's salinity tolerance. When we talk of a salinity tolerance what this means is the point at which the plant struggles to take K. K is the first nutrient locked down by a high saline medium... which is the first deficiency we see when we have over fert'ed the medium. you'll probably call it burning, but in fact it is necrosis caused by a K deficiency. The salinity tolerance of cannabis is somewhere over 6.0EC... nobody has ever recorded this but it is what i gathered from my experiments. Of course, during veg the plant could take more salts as there isn't as much call for K.

you can use as many adages as you liek to make a point... i'll stick with facts.

Wow!!!! Did I just hear a fog horn? No. No. Really?

i'm happy to have people participate, but lets keep it at a debate level, that fog horn comment is unecessary, i'd prefer facts be used to discuss not trolling others without offering scientific backup. i do value your earlier input though, but lets keep our egos out of this, this is the EXACT reason i never post in the forums, i just hang out in the rollitup irc chat.

so back to the problem, do we have a list or a range of problems that can cause pistil death? also, 'stress' has to have a physical component when they fail (ie: to they lock out K when they get cranky), what botany process takes place when this occurs.

i think we could find out and have some good information here, everyone uses fan leaves for diagnosis but i think we could really come up with something useful if everyone thinks and remains centered.


last off all, my technique and method was discussed in the thread i linked in my first post from my grow journal. if you've not read that, then there isn't much reason to be commenting without all the information, thanks everyone so far.

there are lots of different types of stress and a plant usually responds by shutting down growth processes and concnetrating on defensive measures.

depending on the level of stress... so say you handle your plants a lot, this may encourage them to concentrate on a thicker stem, sacrificing growth to the buds. I've seen plants go from flower to veg after a topping. stress caused them to veg again, with complete pistil death. plants were a week into flower and didn't start flowering again for another 10 days. temperature shock, heat willc ause the plant to stretch, the cold will cause it to go into stasis, no growth whatsoever, or at least so slow as to be non exisitent.

So what you are saying, is that I could just feed my plant straight nutrients then and it should grow to the Sky. Hmmmm I will stick with my grow methods. I have seen plants that have been feed in the first two or three weeks when they were already in a nutrient hot soil. And it was not pretty. I will stick with less is more. I have been getting about 350 grams from a 600 watt light every 8-10 weeks. That is good enough for me. Maybe you can get plants to survive in 6.0 EC. But I doubt I can. And am not willing to try.

I am pretty sure that 90% of the people in here that know how to grow, know what it means when someone says they fed their plants at 25% strength. You must be in the other 10%.

Could it be possible that the pistils caught some kind of bacterial infection? Everyone is talking stress but maybe it's something exotic and alive from outside that come in?
Just throwing it out there

pandan: thanks for the good idea. i was also wondering if maybe my fans happen to be a little to aggressive or not aggressive enough (they have been replaced since the last grow) and are affecting the hairs somehow by drying them out or not giving them enough exchange despite temps being ok.

skunkushybrid: i appreciate all the causes, but i'm wondering what the biological process is that breaks down to show this (dead pistil) symptom regardless of the cause (unless the end result is somehow different but dead pistils look the same to me)


lord dangly bits: please tone down your negativity or don't participate in my thread.
not to mention 350/600 is ok, but barely above mediocre in the grand scheme of things so you obviously have room to grow in your skills as well....sadly enough post count != good grower. now on to what you said: so the 25%, so you're saying when i switch from veg (that i brought up from .5 EC to 1.5/1.7 EC slowly to full on veg, no burn, very healthy) i should drop it down to .5 again when i switch to flowering nutes? seems like it would be a great way to end up with a deficiency to me, but i have never tried it, is this your strategy, drop down to 25% of what you were at in veg when you go to flower then go back up as you can?

FYI... especially in veg' you can pretty much feed a plant what you like. I have started seedlings in a 3.2EC concentration. during veg it is better to critical feed as this will cause the plant to grow stockier, thicker stems... rich green leaves. only in flower do you need to be careful. as depending on your medium, there could be a build-up of nutrients taking the plant closer towards it's salinity tolerance. When we talk of a salinity tolerance what this means is the point at which the plant struggles to take K. K is the first nutrient locked down by a high saline medium... which is the first deficiency we see when we have over fert'ed the medium. you'll probably call it burning, but in fact it is necrosis caused by a K deficiency. The salinity tolerance of cannabis is somewhere over 6.0EC... nobody has ever recorded this but it is what i gathered from my experiments. Of course, during veg the plant could take more salts as there isn't as much call for K.

Click to expand...

LDB... please re-read that and then tell me how you managed to conclude from it that you can just feed straight nutrients? LOL

I run 2 600w lights in a perpetual SoG and i expect an lb per light. that's with very low veg time too...

Yes i'm in that other 10% as i have no idea what you mean by it. Just as you will have no idea on how much i use when i tell you that i never measure my nutrients, no pH and no EC. I also grow in coco.


@dragonpuff... what you're asking is extremely technical and beyond what I can explain. All I do know, from my own experience, is that stress will cause pistil death. It could have been a fungal infection too as pandan mentioned, maybe the plant dealt with it. just like we can gain immunity to cerrtain diseases so can plants.

If this doesn''t continue then i''d just chalk it up to some type of stress, or even disease if you like, and forget all about it. it'll be a long road trying to figure out the physical processes. i love reading about the scientific aspects but even i'm shying away from this one.

Hmm. So 1/2 gram per watt is not good. Holy shit. That is what everyones mark has been for years. You are correct. I have to step off the short bus. You guys have fun. And it was not me that said that these plants can handle 6.0 EC. Seems to me that there is someone in here trying to screw up peoples grows, or might even be LEO. Either that or you guys are way out there.

I could get more out of my grow. But I am allowed 15 plants. So 6 in Veg, 6 in flower, and 2 mothers. Gives me room to breath. I do not need house or horror plants. I just need enough for my personal. and a few select friends. And i hate to manicure. So I keep my plants at about 18" to 24". 12.5 ounces per 8 weeks is more then enough weed for my needs.

no, everybody's mark is a gram per watt.

LOL... LDB, i was at this forum before you. this is my second account... you were here when i was a moderator here back in 07-08. I evwen had the same handle and avatar... just take off the 01. skunkushybrid

You also have no idea about salinity tolerance, nor what it is... i highly doubt you've ever been off that short bus my friend.

why is the eternal question for me . if i can understand what the physical process is, maybe i can trace backwards to the stupid thing i did or what event happened that changed it. we can all agree nothing 'just happens' and even if i never do that stupid thing again, i still want to know what it was. a real botanist would eat this question up i've searched 'marijuana botany: an advanced study on the the propagatio and breeding of distinctive cannabis' by robert connell clarke, but i havent' been able to find anything that seems to pertain. on the bright side i have seen new white hairs growing, but still WTF i know it didn't do it last time and this time it did and dammit i wanna know why lol.

ps: i got .53 grams/watt my first grow ever in hydro, 350 from 600 is .58. everything i read is the top level in non-verticle system is gram per watt and over. not saying you aren't skilled, but you clearly have room to grow, and instead of attacking others posts offering a good alternative would be more useful.

pps- please answer my question about your method of tuning nutes down between the veg and flower stage and clarify for my questio in post 14

dragonpuff said:

why is the eternal question for me . if i can understand what the physical process is, maybe i can trace backwards to the stupid thing i did or what event happened that changed it. we can all agree nothing 'just happens' and even if i never do that stupid thing again, i still want to know what it was. a real botanist would eat this question up i've searched 'marijuana botany: an advanced study on the the propagatio and breeding of distinctive cannabis' by robert connell clarke, but i havent' been able to find anything that seems to pertain. on the bright side i have seen new white hairs growing, but still WTF i know it didn't do it last time and this time it did and dammit i wanna know why lol.

Click to expand...

well good luck in that search for a real botanist.

I'd also steer well clear of marijuana sites. you won't learn anything but superstition and outright bullshit a lot of the time. You need to go to real botany sites and learn about other plants. Look at the behaviour of other plants and relate your findings to your experiences with cannabis. that's what i do.

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. To me it's sort of like saying "there is a dead bloke over there, we know he is dead cause he is brown and shriveled" and then trying to figure out if he was stabbed or shot based on just being dead alone. The shriveling and dark colour is just the cells breaking down and de-hydrating because nothing alive is maintaining them?