eastcoastmo
Well-Known Member
I wonder if old mate finally found that CBD rich plant....out of 70 odd seeds, I'm sure he would've found a couple at least! Bunk fuckin at home testing ha ha ha.
Sin City Seeds Thunderstuck is a Fraud
- Thread starter Mr. Bluejeans
- Start date
higher self
Well-Known Member
lol what a backfire
GreenLegend420
Well-Known Member
My purple kush freebie didnt turn purple!?!?!? Im calling my lawyer!
skunkwreck
Well-Known Member
No it was because it didn't taste like OG Kush lmao .
waterproof808
Well-Known Member
I almost gave you the benefit of the doubt until this post that shows you clearly dont know what you are talking about.
Phenotype: This is the "outward, physical manifestation" of the organism. These are the physical parts, the sum of the atoms, molecules, macromolecules, cells, structures, metabolism, energy utilization, tissues, organs, reflexes and behaviors; anything that is part of the observable structure, function or behavior of a living organism.
Genotype: This is the "internally coded, inheritable information" carried by all living organisms. This stored information is used as a "blueprint" or set of instructions for building and maintaining a living creature. These instructions are found within almost all cells (the "internal" part), they are written in a coded language (the genetic code), they are copied at the time of cell division or reproduction and are passed from one generation to the next ("inheritable"). These instructions are intimately involved with all aspects of the life of a cell or an organism. They control everything from the formation of protein macromolecules, to the regulation of metabolism and synthesis.
thenotsoesoteric
Well-Known Member
If you read the thing he linked for the definition of phenomena, it doesn't say anything about that being a plant term. It actually is referring to the study, the researcher was observing "phenomena" in plant appearances or to that degree anyway. Total fail on the OP's part.
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
Oh ... my ... fuck. This has to be the most ridiculous claim I have read on here in months, and it's only page 2. What a shameful thread, sorry to bump it, but I am flabbergasted, utterly. Thread should be removed from the site; this shit be libelous.
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greenghost420
Well-Known Member
calls sincity a fraud but have u heard bout resin seeds? from what i hear, they never had a cbd in the breeding room. talk about frauds...sincity has some of the best gear hands down!
edit it may have been cbd crew. but any hybrid bred with a cbd mom x a thc dad u will need to hunt thru sometimes alot of seeds.
edit it may have been cbd crew. but any hybrid bred with a cbd mom x a thc dad u will need to hunt thru sometimes alot of seeds.
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Rooster802
Active Member
Just saw this thread. Clueless newb here, started smoking weed for rec a few years ago on retiring from the military, realized that stuff helped with my aches and health so did some research... anyhow grew some Thunderstruck seeds for a high CBD supplement assuming that the end product would be a 20:1 CBD/THC ratio (remember, clueless guy with zero friends that use cannabis, started using in my late 30's). Anyhow, harvested the first two plants, processed them into coconut oil caps, and both my wife and I take them every day. They provide me with a clear head, reduce my anxiety drastically, and overall I just feel great. My BP is running 108/60 and I'm overweight and over muscled with a less than optimal diet... at my age that doesn't happen, especially with a family history of high blood pressure. I vape a little weed of any other strain, and I'm intoxicated and do not feel safe to drive or make important decisions and that has remained constant for the last three years that I have been a daily cannabis user. On Thunderstruck (I grew from seed with no testing-my product is mixed from two different seeds) I have NO psychoactive effects. My head remains clear. So this is a completely anecdotal story, and therefore means nothing and my results may not be reproducible but as of today I am convinced Thunderstruck seeds are exactly what Sin City promotes them to be.
Phatlewtz
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your service first off! Also your description and experience will be very helpful to people looking for alleviation...
PhenoMenal
Well-Known Member
To those wondering what this is (there's a few "whats the blurry thing!?" comments), it's TLC (Thin Layer Chromatography). It's a VERY useful tool, but should be considered useless if you want exact percentages (it is considered qualitative, NOT quantitative) - there are just too many variables relying on a human to do perfectly, so there isn't even any point in trusting a computer analysis of the result either. However, if you want to get a rough idea as to whether a plant has any discernable amount of CBD at all, and in approximately what proportion to the THC, it's a great tool you can use in the privacy of your own home, and great for "pheno hunting".
That's what I use TLC for. No need to pay $200 for those commercial kits that hardly give you any tests though - this really is just "standard TLC" - the only special item you will need is the Fast Blue B (or Fast Blue BB) salt, that's the dye which reacts very specifically to cannabinoids, but that's just some googling away. Then you just need the right alcohol(s). So, do some shopping around and your $200 will end up getting you over 100 tests.
In this PARTICULAR case, Mr Bluejeans has made four analyses, although the fourth was too far over to see the result and seemingly done on a weird angle which doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever. If you just look at the top, you will see what looks like two distinct dots, but look closer and you will see one of those dots is actually two joined together -- CBD (orange) will be sitting just on top of the THC (crimson pinky red). A taller plate and more time would've allowed proper separation, but he is using the standard size plate for this. I'm not sure which alcohols he's using so I'm not too sure if the other dot is THCV or CBG, but the CBD and THC are very obvious.
*scratches head* But that's not exactly what your photo shows...
Here is what I see in Mr Bluejeans analyses: 2 plants appear to be approximately 1:1 CBD:THC phenos ... surely that's a pretty good return from 4 plants! And when did a 1:1 plant become "high THC"? Even the 4th one (chopped off) appears to have CBD as you can just see some faint orange above the crimson red. Okay - there is certainly nothing ACDC 25:1 here in this very tiny 4-plant sample, but it seems in these still-relatively-early days of "CBD beans" if you get 1:1 surely you can't complain too much! I don't think he mentioned what stage the plants were though (leaf trim from veg seedlings? post-harvest buds? all at the same time? some phenos are known to go over 16 weeks). His camera angle distorts the results a bit too - please use flatbed scanner if possible, or at least aim camera directly down!
Perhaps you should send $500 back to Herbies (massive credit to them for paying out on an issue that isn't even their fault btw!)
Attachments
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Hi Everyone,
My goal is not to stir a new controversy about whether Thunderstruck is a fraud or not.
No, my intent is just to share my thoughts about, and my experience with Thunderstruck from seeds.
Of course, plants are living beings, and as such may display very different traits from one individual to another.
But Thunderstruck is not just any regular plant. Thunderstruck is supposed to be the result of a selfed plant, to reliably yield, from seeds, according to the breeder’s claim 16-22% CBD and 1-2% THC.
Anyone reading this claim is led into thinking that, any Thunderstruck seed picked at random, will produce at least about 16% CBD and a maximum amount of 2% THC.
Well, this is not what I have found to be true (see down bellow documents, from 2 different plants).
Breeders should be legally liable when asserting such claims... especially when their plants yield opposite numbers to those claimed.
Such occurrences are telltale manifestations that something is fundamentally wrong with SCS Thunderstruck seeds…
When I contacted Sin City Seeds to show them the HPLC analyses results of, raw, Thunderstruck flowers (cut @ 63 days of flowering), they did not seem surprised at all, and replied :
-“(Thunderstruck) still technically being a hybrid, such variations were to be expected”.
And when I suggested they should discontinue Thunderstruck until further fine tuned and stabilized to live up to their claims, they just apologized and said that :
-“Thunderstruck was here to stay for the long term”.
Very disappointing attitude for professionals of the cannabis industry… who must be very well aware of those issues, but still supply the market with this “special, solid genetics” as SCS put it.
What follows is the conclusion I drew from cultivating this plant.
Growing Thunderstruck from seeds, may not be a good option when or if :
- One needs consistently high CBD and little to no THC in each plant.
- Medicating is the primary purpose, for THC and CBD rates will wildly vary from breeder’s numbers.
- Not prepared or willing to indulge too much time in a pheno hunt, and spend significant amounts of money in lab tests.
With hindsight, if I could somehow go back in time and venture to give myself a piece of advice, I’d probably say :
- :“ If you need a THC free strain (or close to) with reliably high CBD percentages, but cannot get hold of a certified high CBD clone, then do not even consider buying seeds of Sin City’s Thunderstruck.
You would not only end up wasting time and money, but you’d also be in for big disappointment”.
I do not claim holding any truth whatsoever, neither do I aim to convince anyone of anything. Everyone’s free to believe whatever she/he wants, and do whatever she/he deems fit.
Except for the 3 instances where I cited Sin City Seeds, these words and thoughts are mine and mine alone.
This is what my personal experience with Sin City’s Thunderstruck from seeds inspired me.
I wish breeders were more trustworthy persons. But I guess you cannot expect much from those too eager to take advantage and make huge profits from the last trends.
My goal is not to stir a new controversy about whether Thunderstruck is a fraud or not.
No, my intent is just to share my thoughts about, and my experience with Thunderstruck from seeds.
Of course, plants are living beings, and as such may display very different traits from one individual to another.
But Thunderstruck is not just any regular plant. Thunderstruck is supposed to be the result of a selfed plant, to reliably yield, from seeds, according to the breeder’s claim 16-22% CBD and 1-2% THC.
Anyone reading this claim is led into thinking that, any Thunderstruck seed picked at random, will produce at least about 16% CBD and a maximum amount of 2% THC.
Well, this is not what I have found to be true (see down bellow documents, from 2 different plants).
Breeders should be legally liable when asserting such claims... especially when their plants yield opposite numbers to those claimed.
Such occurrences are telltale manifestations that something is fundamentally wrong with SCS Thunderstruck seeds…
When I contacted Sin City Seeds to show them the HPLC analyses results of, raw, Thunderstruck flowers (cut @ 63 days of flowering), they did not seem surprised at all, and replied :
-“(Thunderstruck) still technically being a hybrid, such variations were to be expected”.
And when I suggested they should discontinue Thunderstruck until further fine tuned and stabilized to live up to their claims, they just apologized and said that :
-“Thunderstruck was here to stay for the long term”.
Very disappointing attitude for professionals of the cannabis industry… who must be very well aware of those issues, but still supply the market with this “special, solid genetics” as SCS put it.
What follows is the conclusion I drew from cultivating this plant.
Growing Thunderstruck from seeds, may not be a good option when or if :
- One needs consistently high CBD and little to no THC in each plant.
- Medicating is the primary purpose, for THC and CBD rates will wildly vary from breeder’s numbers.
- Not prepared or willing to indulge too much time in a pheno hunt, and spend significant amounts of money in lab tests.
With hindsight, if I could somehow go back in time and venture to give myself a piece of advice, I’d probably say :
- :“ If you need a THC free strain (or close to) with reliably high CBD percentages, but cannot get hold of a certified high CBD clone, then do not even consider buying seeds of Sin City’s Thunderstruck.
You would not only end up wasting time and money, but you’d also be in for big disappointment”.
I do not claim holding any truth whatsoever, neither do I aim to convince anyone of anything. Everyone’s free to believe whatever she/he wants, and do whatever she/he deems fit.
Except for the 3 instances where I cited Sin City Seeds, these words and thoughts are mine and mine alone.
This is what my personal experience with Sin City’s Thunderstruck from seeds inspired me.
I wish breeders were more trustworthy persons. But I guess you cannot expect much from those too eager to take advantage and make huge profits from the last trends.
eastcoastmo
Well-Known Member
Cheers for the write up man, I appreciate you explaining those results as I hadn't seen TLC used before. Maybe I should look closer into it, would they pick up THCV at all? If there were levels high enough to pick up, that is?To those wondering what this is (there's a few "whats the blurry thing!?" comments), it's TLC (Thin Layer Chromatography). It's a VERY useful tool, but should be considered useless if you want exact percentages (it is considered qualitative, NOT quantitative) - there are just too many variables relying on a human to do perfectly, so there isn't even any point in trusting a computer analysis of the result either. However, if you want to get a rough idea as to whether a plant has any discernable amount of CBD at all, and in approximately what proportion to the THC, it's a great tool you can use in the privacy of your own home, and great for "pheno hunting".
That's what I use TLC for. No need to pay $200 for those commercial kits that hardly give you any tests though - this really is just "standard TLC" - the only special item you will need is the Fast Blue B (or Fast Blue BB) salt, that's the dye which reacts very specifically to cannabinoids, but that's just some googling away. Then you just need the right alcohol(s). So, do some shopping around and your $200 will end up getting you over 100 tests.
In this PARTICULAR case, Mr Bluejeans has made four analyses, although the fourth was too far over to see the result and seemingly done on a weird angle which doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever. If you just look at the top, you will see what looks like two distinct dots, but look closer and you will see one of those dots is actually two joined together -- CBD (orange) will be sitting just on top of the THC (crimson pinky red). A taller plate and more time would've allowed proper separation, but he is using the standard size plate for this. I'm not sure which alcohols he's using so I'm not too sure if the other dot is THCV or CBG, but the CBD and THC are very obvious.
*scratches head* But that's not exactly what your photo shows...
Here is what I see in Mr Bluejeans analyses: 2 plants appear to be approximately 1:1 CBD:THC phenos ... surely that's a pretty good return from 4 plants! And when did a 1:1 plant become "high THC"? Even the 4th one (chopped off) appears to have CBD as you can just see some faint orange above the crimson red. Okay - there is certainly nothing ACDC 25:1 here in this very tiny 4-plant sample, but it seems in these still-relatively-early days of "CBD beans" if you get 1:1 surely you can't complain too much! I don't think he mentioned what stage the plants were though (leaf trim from veg seedlings? post-harvest buds? all at the same time? some phenos are known to go over 16 weeks). His camera angle distorts the results a bit too - please use flatbed scanner if possible, or at least aim camera directly down!
Perhaps you should send $500 back to Herbies (massive credit to them for paying out on an issue that isn't even their fault btw!)
PhenoMenal
Well-Known Member
Yes!
ALL cannabinoids are revealed by Thin Layer Chromatography (thanks to the Fast Blue B or Fast Blue BB dye, in combination with an appropriate eluent that separates the cannabinoids)[NOTE: just to clarify, the TLC images shown in my reply here are not of Thunderstruck, but other various strains, just to demonstrate some cannabinoid variance in tests]
One of my previous analysis images in my Thin Layer Chromatography thread (see signature [link]) was from a strain which turned out to be very high THCV -- I had no idea until i analysed it!
but you'll see it's very clear:
If there were any CBD (there isn't) you'd see it as a BRIGHT ORANGE dot immediately above the BRIGHT RED dot of THC. THCV stands out as a DARK CHERRY RED immediately below the THC dot.
When you compare this to my other analyses you'll see it sticks out like a sore thumb, and it was a pleasant delight to see because THCV is usually low or non-existent in most strains.
Compare it, for example, to a high CBG strain (golden spot) ... you can see this strain has very low but still detectable levels of THCV between the golden CBG spot and the large THC spot. This is a very significant level of CBG...
Just to be clear about how CBD looks with this eluent, it's the BRIGHT ORANGE dot ABOVE-but-hugging the BRIGHT RED dot of THC ...
In this analysis you can see the Cinderella99 is just full of THC (as to be expected), whereas the Dinamed is approx 1:1 CBD:THC ... both also have healthy levels of CBG and CBC, nice!
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kona gold
Well-Known Member
That's some pretty low standards for breeders!!
You should be able to find what is claimed in one pack of seeds! Otherwise what's the point of breeding???
He let me sell you seeds, but you might not find anything worthwhile!
Yea that's great breeding!!!!
eastcoastmo
Well-Known Member
Thanks man, appreciate the info! Where does one purchase these kits??Yes!
[NOTE: just to clarify, the TLC images shown in my reply here are not of Thunderstruck, but other various strains, just to demonstrate some cannabinoid variance in tests]
One of my previous analysis images in my Thin Layer Chromatography thread (see signature [link]) was from a strain which turned out to be very high THCV -- I had no idea until i analysed it!
If there were any CBD (there isn't) you'd see it as a BRIGHT ORANGE dot immediately above the BRIGHT RED dot of THC. THCV stands out as a DARK CHERRY RED immediately below the THC dot.
When you compare this to my other analyses you'll see it sticks out like a sore thumb, and it was a pleasant delight to see because THCV is usually low or non-existent in most strains.
Compare it, for example, to a high CBG strain (golden spot) ... you can see this strain has very low but still detectable levels of THCV between the golden CBG spot and the large THC spot. This is a very significant level of CBG...
Just to be clear about how CBD looks with this eluent, it's the BRIGHT ORANGE dot ABOVE-but-hugging the BRIGHT RED dot of THC ...
In this analysis you can see the Cinderella99 is just full of THC (as to be expected), whereas the Dinamed is approx 1:1 CBD:THC ... both also have healthy levels of CBG and CBC, nice!
It's crazy how easily people let breeders of the hook. Search through multiple packs of $100 seeds. Grow all of them out spending time, space, material, electricity and the you might find what you're looking for. They could have the decency to supply a tube of KY jelly with every order. Hide the seeds in it and call it the stealth shipping option.
Imagine going to a restaurant ordering filet mignon, having the waiter come back with the "big mac" pheno and says better luck next time.
kona gold
Well-Known Member
I don't know how that shit happens either??
Then they get folks helping this mentality progress, by having their back.
Sorry, if I can't find it in ten expensive seeds, you'rea shitty breeder!
Maybe they should add a disclaimer to their gear??" You might have to go through a hundred packs, but it should be in there somewhere!?!"
How many packs you think they would sell?
PhenoMenal
Well-Known Member
There are a couple different TLC kits you can buy, but they don't come with many tests (then you need to buy some refills), so I sourced all the components individually, which i've listed in my thread.
But certainly the easiest way to start is just buy one of the existing kits, then you can still source the refill items yourself, but won't need to buy any of the initial parts. AlphaCat's kit is the best one to my knowledge - I haven't used it, but judging from their videos and good documentation etc they seem a professional outfit.
Feel free to google for other kits though, they're all pretty much the same ... the only 'special' thing required for TLC of cannabinoids (as opposed to say, TLC of fountain pen ink) is 1) the use of the Fast Blue B or Fast Blue BB dye to stain the cannabinoids so we can see them, and 2) a suitable eluent for separating cannabinoids (eg. chloroform, or 4:1 hexane : diethyl ether).