Skint newbie on a budget in search of good advice.

Mahatma Coat said:

Alright everyone, this forum was recommended by a mate who grows his own so i joined, but this is my first post.

I'd appreciate some pointers for setting up a grow if possible.

I'm going to have to buy my equipment piecemeal. I see HPS grow lights have dropped in price, but i don't know if i should go for LEDs (the recommender of this forum said to avoid what he called 'blurple' LEDs) but with all the info' on the internet it seems impossible to choose wisely when it comes to what exactly to save up for.

Initially, i plan to save up for the right light(s) (and keeping the leccy bill down is pretty important). I've been looking at some LEDs, but can't find any decent sounding budget options.

I just can't afford a grow tent, but i have a room i can keep dark.

Second, i'll need a decent carbon filter. Again, this is dependent on my budget but obviously eliminating smell is very important.

I'm disabled and cannabis is a safe and effective medicine and i'm tired of spending a fortune on it, so i'm going to grow my own.
I intend to grow nine auto-flowering plants so i get a quicker result and a quicker turnover til the next harvest e.t.c.

Any useful advice will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.

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i don't want to look like i'm advertising because i'm not, but this LED i just bought is pretty damn good so far: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08F35YT6Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
it just gets really hot to the touch (i'm not sure if that's a big deal or not for this light, but i run a box fan on it either way) i got it on sale and i'm happy with it so far for sure

Creature1969 said:

Hmm.. Points to ponder.
Auto's don't give a quicker result/turnover
9 autos will want a lot of space and light
a room you can keep dark doesn't matter with autos

I'd suggest enough light for say 4-6 autos. Start 2, wait a month, start 2 more. Rinse and repeat and you'll be harvesting 2 plants every month.
I start 2-4 plants every 6-8 weeks. Keeps 3 adults with more than we can consume.
That's the positive of auto's indoors, seedling through flower in the same space and light schedule.

As far as light, you have to figure out how much square footage you want to light. Same rule applies to the filter/fan.

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this is really good advice. also good luck with your grow OP!

bri77 said:

He means money up front. And he's dead right, forget about led if you are on a budget, they're great for long term savings on electricity but way too expensive if you are trying to get started on a tight budget. A 600 watt hid lamp like he posted will cover at least a 4 x 4 area perfectly and produce great results. Go with that.

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Ah! Financial layout! Excuse me, i thought it was some experienced grower jargon rather than common parlance.
I do think i'll eventually get the light Star Dog left the link to, providing they'll still have it (the cold never crossed my mind either), that could've been a close shave, it's quite cold where i live).
Also i've had a good rethink on nine plants, i think i'll go with four auto's (max six).

edblings said:

i don't want to look like i'm advertising because i'm not, but this LED i just bought is pretty damn good so far: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08F35YT6Z/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
it just gets really hot to the touch (i'm not sure if that's a big deal or not for this light, but i run a box fan on it either way) i got it on sale and i'm happy with it so far for sure

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Thanks edblings but we're on different continents and the shipping's very expensive.
Thanks for the encouragement.

Star Dog said:

For both initial outlay and total area coverage, you'll need to spend 5/6/7 times the money on led to get the same light footprint as a 600hps...it's even dimmable you can run a 250/400/600w for less than 60 quid!!! Fk me I'm buying one lol

Idk anything about led but the guys I trust say you need roughly the same wattage of led as you would hps per square foot, so the real savings is only 10% on electricity cost + bulb outlay + it's cooler if your in a warm climate.

Oh I forgot to say it'll do auto's and photos equally well.

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That's excellent practical advice, thank you very much again.
I'm somewhat mystified re dimmable lights, shouldn't the constant brightest light be the best for vegetation/flowering, or am i missing a trick (P.S. i live in a fairly cold climate)?
Thanks.

If you are in a budget, did you know you can just buy a $8 6 way e27 splitter and 6x14w led globes from the supermarket for each 2x2 spac e? I have tested 6x14w bulbs (3x2700k, 3x6500k) for a total of $35 including the splitter. It it surprisingly puts out more ppfd than my mars hydro TS 600 at 18", and totals 84w. If I recall correctly it was putting out 520umol/s at 18" and 800umol at 12" in a 70x70 tent.

Keep in mind you have to remove the diffuser globes. These household globes will outperform blurples by a mile, and you can customise your spectrum. The 14w 2700k bulbs put out 2100 lumens without their diffuser, and the 6500k puts out around 2300 lumens. A mars hydro TS600 puts out around 13000 lumens. 6x e27 leds will put out over 13000 lumens. So the same lumen output, similar spectrum but half the price or less.

Mahatma Coat said:

That's excellent practical advice, thank you very much again.
I'm somewhat mystified re dimmable lights, shouldn't the constant brightest light be the best for vegetation/flowering, or am i missing a trick (P.S. i live in a fairly cold climate)?
Thanks.

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I've got a shed load of lighting for all stages, but for easy speaking say I only owned that one dimmable ballast, I could use it with seedlings/cuttings in a 2x2 through to a 5x5 using 250w there's no need for 600w at that stage, once they grow up a bit turn up the power to 400w to cover the bigger area, then onto flower and up to 600w, so it's extremely flexible and huge bang for your buck, for a budget it's the only serous choice unless you want to flower a square foot lol.

I'm also in a cooler climate I need the heat of the hps bulb to heat up the canopy and the ambient temperature + control humidity, if I try to heat the canopy with led it bleaches fuck out of the plants and they look terrible, user error of course but forget heating the canopy with good leds...

Get other opinions on it and see what you think, I'm not against led in any way, I'm actually using led atm I'm only pointing out the reality of using them in a cooler climate... Even worse if you have high humidity,
I've got a tube heater running I could actually put in a 250w hid and not need the 150w tube heater lol
.

Star Dog said:

For both initial outlay and total area coverage, you'll need to spend 5/6/7 times the money on led to get the same light footprint as a 600hps...it's even dimmable you can run a 250/400/600w for less than 60 quid!!! Fk me I'm buying one lol

Idk anything about led but the guys I trust say you need roughly the same wattage of led as you would hps per square foot, so the real savings is only 10% on electricity cost + bulb outlay + it's cooler if your in a warm climate.

Oh I forgot to say it'll do auto's and photos equally well.

Click to expand...

Just to confirm, mars hydro is one of the only companies honest about their led to HPs comparisons. Most companies say there 120w leds are equivalent to a 400-600w mh or hps...mars was actually honest. My TS 600 is quoted at 99w, and a replacement for a 150w HP's, and my TS 1000 is 150w and quoted as a replacement for a 250w hps. Considering the 1000w is 22000 lumens and a 250w HP's is around 30000 lumens, that the most honest I have seen.

VincenzioVonHook said:

Just to confirm, mars hydro is one of the only companies honest about their led to HPs comparisons. Most companies say there 120w leds are equivalent to a 400-600w mh or hps...mars was actually honest. My TS 600 is quoted at 99w, and a replacement for a 150w HP's, and my TS 1000 is 150w and quoted as a replacement for a 250w hps. Considering the 1000w is 22000 lumens and a 250w HP's is around 30000 lumens, that the most honest I have seen.

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I've no problem with Mars led or any other for that matter, I think Mars estimate of 250w replacing a 400w is probably about right in a veg setting but for flower you need around 40w psf regardless.

That one light light is £300 5x + the cost of the Omega for half the wattage and he's likely to need a heater in a cooler climate.

For comparison with £60 worth hps.

Star Dog said:

I've no problem with Mars led or any other for that matter, I think Mars estimate of 250w replacing a 400w is probably about right in a veg setting but for flower you need around 40w psf regardless.
View attachment 4906288
That one light light is £300 5x + the cost of the Omega for half the wattage and he's likely to need a heater in a cooler climate.

For comparison with £60 worth hps.
View attachment 4906289

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I defo didn't think you had any bias, I just wanted to chime in as I agree wholeheartedly with the wattage per square foot regardless, and wanted to confirm that most budget LEDs claims are complete rubbish. I just think its humorous how some companies claim a 100w led is equal to a 600w sodium or halide, when they clearly state 13000 lumen on the same slide. Christ, my 150w sodium floodlight for the yard put out 15000 lumen.

I think the main reason I purchased the mars lights was their honest comparison between the 99w TS and 150w sodium. When I sent an email to confirm, the rep actually said it would put out a thousand or so lumens less than a 150 sodium, just runs a bit cooler and produces a better overall spectrum. Every other LED in my budget was throwing out ludicrous claims and lost themselves a sale.

I've been going by the 30w/ft² in veg and 40w in flower regardless of sodium or led. For cooler climates though, the HPS is a clear winner. It's down to 13c indoors at night here at the moment, and with a 200cfm fan and filter, a mars TS 600 and 80 watts worth of supplemental 3000k led, the temps sit around 15c inside the tent unless I turn the exhaust off, which is borderline. 12x15w 2700k globes over 2 6 way splitters will put out the same lumen output as a 250w sodium, have better coverage and will be cheaper as well if budget is the consideration. They run hot like sodiums as well so is good for cold climates. I got 12 (6 2700k and 6 4000k) and 2 splitters for a mates 4x2 for $69 Aussie dollars and it put out 330g over 3 autos. Put out around 27000 lumen for $63.

Here's on of the ghetto monstrosities I put together for $56 Aussie dollars. Has two 19w 2700k bulbs, 2x14w 4000k bulbs, 2x11w 3000k bulbs and 2x6w 450/660/IR/UV bulbs for a total of 100w. Covers a 70x70 tent at 18" with 600umol in the middle and 400umol at the corners, at 12" it pulls 900umol in the centre and 300 at the edges. Has a good overall spectrum too, they are all Samsung 2835 and Osram Diodes. Runs a lot hotter than my TS 600 at the same wattage though due to the less than optimal efficiency (they are driven harder than quantum boards, hence the claimed 15000-20000 hour ratings).

LED's with the cap popped off are also cheap and work just fine. Screw them on splitters on a homemade wooden fixture. Low heat, every part cheap and easily replaceable. I'm growing with QB's now but if I have too many plants for my tent I just pop out the old homemade LED system. No problems and rock hard buds.

Mahatma Coat said:

Hello. I think i'll go with LED's bearing in mind the leccy costs, but it will take months just to save £200 for a light and i can't go any higher.
My room is already matt white, i haven't measured it but it fits and the average 9 plant pot grow tent in there with access round the sides and back (i no longer have the tent).
On my budget, the medium will be cheap compost from the nearest B&Q, either that or soil from the back garden.
I'm already rethinking nine plants even though i've done it once before with a tent.

No one will be hearing about it, it's all medicine for my own use which is my own business and i have no intention of selling any of my own medicine either, so i'm good on that front.
Thanks for the advice.

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I see you are in the UK, so am I. Don't bother with B&Q compost it is utter crap, you will get fungus gnats or worse. I grow on a budget, because I can rather than because I have to. It is all about value for money for me. Don't use garden soil either, you have no idea what bugs are in it. Any bug that gets into your grow space will have a field day as there are no natural predators. For compost try either Growmoor GroPlus Seaweed Compost...

.

...or Westland Jack's Magic....


I find the GroPlus a bit better in veg, If you are really pushed on price tomato grow bags are a good source of cheap good quality compost.

For fertiliser you can use a cheap tomato feed like Tomorite @ 50% for veg and full strength for bloom.

How much have you got to spend on lights?

VincenzioVonHook said:

If you are in a budget, did you know you can just buy a $8 6 way e27 splitter and 6x14w led globes from the supermarket for each 2x2 spac e? I have tested 6x14w bulbs (3x2700k, 3x6500k) for a total of $35 including the splitter. It it surprisingly puts out more ppfd than my mars hydro TS 600 at 18", and totals 84w. If I recall correctly it was putting out 520umol/s at 18" and 800umol at 12" in a 70x70 tent.

Keep in mind you have to remove the diffuser globes. These household globes will outperform blurples by a mile, and you can customise your spectrum. The 14w 2700k bulbs put out 2100 lumens without their diffuser, and the 6500k puts out around 2300 lumens. A mars hydro TS600 puts out around 13000 lumens. 6x e27 leds will put out over 13000 lumens. So the same lumen output, similar spectrum but half the price or less.

Click to expand...

I know your intent is just trying to hekp me but all that jargon went over my head like a fighter jet.
I appreciate it anyway, thank you.

speedwell68 said:

I see you are in the UK, so am I. Don't bother with B&Q compost it is utter crap, you will get fungus gnats or worse. I grow on a budget, because I can rather than because I have to. It is all about value for money for me. Don't use garden soil either, you have no idea what bugs are in it. Any bug that gets into your grow space will have a field day as there are no natural predators. For compost try either Growmoor GroPlus Seaweed Compost...

GroPlus Seaweed60 Compost

.

...or Westland Jack's Magic....

Jack's Magic All Purpose Compost | Compost | Westland Garden Health

Jack's Magic All Purpose is a traditional compost with 100% natural ingredients to create a pure and balanced growing medium.

www.gardenhealth.com

I find the GroPlus a bit better in veg, If you are really pushed on price tomato grow bags are a good source of cheap good quality compost.

For fertiliser you can use a cheap tomato feed like Tomorite @ 50% for veg and full strength for bloom.

How much have you got to spend on lights?

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Saving for compost could add months to an actual grow, besides, B&Q will be where i'll be getting it from as it's the only place on the bus route. I had no problems with the same stuff last time except a bit of bud rot, but i think i may have over-watered them once and that was probably the cause. Now i'm not certain what to do.
I'll be using one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/284250025080?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e112358.m43.l1123&mkcid=8&bu=44022027194&osub=-1~1&segname=16TE179832_T_PREPURCHASE_CT2&crd=20210522090000&ch=osgood&sojTags=osub=osub,segname=segname,crd=crd,ch=ch,chnl=mkcid
Thanks.

Kush Inc. said:

LED's with the cap popped off are also cheap and work just fine. Screw them on splitters on a homemade wooden fixture. Low heat, every part cheap and easily replaceable. I'm growing with QB's now but if I have too many plants for my tent I just pop out the old homemade LED system. No problems and rock hard buds.

Click to expand...

I honestly wouldn't know where to start, and am a bit preoccupied with getting a regular grow started at the present.
Thanks anyway, i appreciate all help offered.

Star Dog said:

I've got a shed load of lighting for all stages, but for easy speaking say I only owned that one dimmable ballast, I could use it with seedlings/cuttings in a 2x2 through to a 5x5 using 250w there's no need for 600w at that stage, once they grow up a bit turn up the power to 400w to cover the bigger area, then onto flower and up to 600w, so it's extremely flexible and huge bang for your buck, for a budget it's the only serous choice unless you want to flower a square foot lol.

I'm also in a cooler climate I need the heat of the hps bulb to heat up the canopy and the ambient temperature + control humidity, if I try to heat the canopy with led it bleaches fuck out of the plants and they look terrible, user error of course but forget heating the canopy with good leds...

Get other opinions on it and see what you think, I'm not against led in any way, I'm actually using led atm I'm only pointing out the reality of using them in a cooler climate... Even worse if you have high humidity,
I've got a tube heater running I could actually put in a 250w hid and not need the 150w tube heater lol
.

Click to expand...

I intend to grow autos under this https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/284250025080?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e112358.m43.l1123&mkcid=8&bu=44022027194&osub=-1~1&segname=16TE179832_T_PREPURCHASE_CT2&crd=20210522090000&ch=osgood&sojTags=osub=osub,segname=segname,crd=crd,ch=ch,chnl=mkcid
well, as soon as i can get enough money together for some compost and cheap plastic buckets i do.

My enthusiasm for LED's evapourated entirely the moment i saw the the difference in leccy costs are relatively negligible, i prefer sticking with what i know too.

The dimmer will be helpful in starting the babies off on the lowest light then gradually increasing it as they mature. Then the cycle can begin and i can have a steady source of medicine growing all year round without having to pay an arm and a leg for it. However, this may mean differing amounts of light throughout the auto grow period which may be too much light for babies. I have a couple of LED 32w (white light spectrum, apparently) floodlights, do you think babies would be alright under them til they're ready for the full 600w?

If i could ask another question it would be how much space will a 600w HPS cover, bearing in mind i have no tent? Last time i got nine plants out of a reflective nine plant tent beneath a 600w HPS, this time it will obviously be different, the walls are matt white and the ceiling roughly seven feet high.

Thanks very much for your advice.

Mahatma Coat said:

I know your intent is just trying to hekp me but all that jargon went over my head like a fighter jet.
I appreciate it anyway, thank you.

Click to expand...

A good idea is to understand how lighting works on an elementary physics base before you ask for advice on lighting lol. There's no point asking for.advice of you don't want to learn anyway.

How big is your grow space?
I'm an auto grower, I use a basic quantum board 135w and pull around 160g. So yield can be good, but I'd say take the given time (normally 90 days ish) with a pinch of salt...add on another 2 weeks.
Good luck man!

Mahatma Coat said:

I intend to grow autos under this https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/284250025080?mkevt=1&mkpid=2&emsid=e112358.m43.l1123&mkcid=8&bu=44022027194&osub=-1~1&segname=16TE179832_T_PREPURCHASE_CT2&crd=20210522090000&ch=osgood&sojTags=osub=osub,segname=segname,crd=crd,ch=ch,chnl=mkcid
well, as soon as i can get enough money together for some compost and cheap plastic buckets i do.

My enthusiasm for LED's evapourated entirely the moment i saw the the difference in leccy costs are relatively negligible, i prefer sticking with what i know too.

The dimmer will be helpful in starting the babies off on the lowest light then gradually increasing it as they mature. Then the cycle can begin and i can have a steady source of medicine growing all year round without having to pay an arm and a leg for it. However, this may mean differing amounts of light throughout the auto grow period which may be too much light for babies. I have a couple of LED 32w (white light spectrum, apparently) floodlights, do you think babies would be alright under them til they're ready for the full 600w?

If i could ask another question it would be how much space will a 600w HPS cover, bearing in mind i have no tent? Last time i got nine plants out of a reflective nine plant tent beneath a 600w HPS, this time it will obviously be different, the walls are matt white and the ceiling roughly seven feet high.

Thanks very much for your advice.

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Generally a 600w is used in a 4x4 tent, I use my 600w in a 5x5.

I'm quite happy with the buds at the farthest points from the light.

As far from the light as It can get.

Idk who came up with 4x4 but I don't agree with it.

Edit... they 32w bulbs are good for seedlings and clones, I've never used them personally though.

I use 100w of fluorescent and they're good for 4 bushy 8/10" inch plants.

VincenzioVonHook said:

A good idea is to understand how lighting works on an elementary physics base before you ask for advice on lighting lol. There's no point asking for.advice of you don't want to learn anyway.

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I've already stated i'm disabled, my disability includes brain damage, if it wasn't and my memory is what it was, i wouldn't have to be inquiring about lights as i'd have already figured it out. I'm not here to be mocked and/or talked down to by anyone. There's no point in squabbling with presumptuous people who don't take the time to inquire why someone is literally unable to learn something and easily commit it to memory sufficiently to put it into practice.