slavery in the modern "democratic" society and the legalization of slavery by law

got2loveit

Well-Known Member
In order to accomplish an in depth study and prove and that we have created a new form of slavery upon ourselves I will start by defining a term in the topic sentence. In order to understand why we are slaves we have to look at the definitions of slavery. Wikipedia states as a definition of slavery: Slavery is a legal system facilitating exploitation of labor. Political economies permit slavery through government and social sanction. Under slavery a worker (called "a slave") is compelled to work for another (sometimes called "the master" or "slave owner").[1] Evidence of slavery predates written records, and has existed to varying extents, forms and periods in almost all cultures and continents.[2] Slaves are held against their will from the time of their capture, purchase, or birth, and are deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to receive compensation (such as wages) in return for their labour. As such, slavery is one form of unfree labor. Today, slavery is formally outlawed in nearly all countries, but the phenomenon continues to exist in various forms around the world.[3][4]
Today freedom from slavery is an internationally recognised human right. Article 4 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states:
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.[5]


Wikipedia goes on to say: In its narrowest sense, the word "slave" refers to people who are treated as the property of another person, household, company, corporation or government. This is referred to as chattel slavery.[14] The 1926 Slavery Convention described slavery as "...the status and/or condition of a person over who any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised..." Slaves cannot leave an owner, an employer or a territory without explicit permission (they must have a passport to leave), and they will be returned if they escape. Therefore a system of slavery—as opposed to the isolated instances found in any society—requires official, legal recognition of ownership, or widespread tacit arrangements with local authorities, by masters who have some influence because of their social and/or economic status and their lives.
The International Labour Organization (ILO) defines forced labour as "all work or service which is extracted from any person under the menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily", albeit with certain exceptions of: military service, convicted criminals, emergencies and minor community services.[15]

Now I will take the example of a modern citizen in any “democratic society” to see if the citizen fits in the description of a slave. As the ILO defines all work or service which is extracted from any person under the menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily", Is it not that part of your income that is paid as a tax a service which is extracted under the menace of a penalty(prison if you don’t pay the percentage of the money you earned)? now tell me which citizen has voluntarily offered himself to work for his government? I know I haven’t! I think that no one in the right mind would accept to work for the government (i.e. pay taxes) voluntarily and that by being menaced by the penalties of non compliance to conform you immediately fall into the definition of slavery provided by the ILO . I argue that this is the exact definition of modern slavery. If I take the argument that you pay taxes for services rendered by the government such as roads hospitals or any other form of public means used by an individual i find my argument even more compelling. Because in this manner you force upon a citizen who comes into society a burden he may not wish to accept. By this I mean that if I decide not to pay taxes I should be deprived of the public gains for which I don’t contribute to. However this is not the case as you are forced by law to abide to the tax regulations or you will be sent to prison for stealing from the government. Well that is forced labor. Because first you dot have a choice about which services you want to accept and which not and then because we all know that if you don’t work you cant have means to sustain yourself and your family. So when u go to work to cover your needs you are also forced by the menace to pay part of your income as a tax to a third party i.e. the government. So since the choice isn’t given and you are therefore forced to labor for a third party under the menace of a penalty you fall under the definition of a slave!! Off course if someone voluntarily pay taxes then this person is not a slave by definition but I surely would question his intellectual ability.
Now if we take the broad definition of slavery given by lovely wikipedia we can see that the citizen of any country of the world fits exactly in the description of a slave from the point of ownership of a human being by a third entity. This is because the legal system facilitating exploitation of labor is the government. Under slavery a worker (called "a slave") is compelled to work for another in our case you are compelled to work for your government. If we combine this with the further definition given: Slaves cannot leave an owner, an employer or a territory without explicit permission (they must have a passport to leave) and we then see that we are issued passports and require permission from our governments to travel then we can easily see how we are owned by our governments, because otherwise we wouldn’t need a passport or even permission to leave our country.
In the constitutions of the countries under common law we see that taxes and dues on income are forbidden and are only allowed against legal entities and not persons. However through an elicit way of laws and regulations these governments have obliged their citizens to waive their rights as persons and become legal entities for the laws and tax laws to apply to each person living in that country. Under contact law a contact which its terms are not understood or were not accepted or were imposed on one party of the contact by the other against their will is unenforceable. So since you haven’t accepted the terms of taxation and you surely do not completely understand them as those who are in the business don’t understand them thoroughly and legal terms that are unknown to the public are used this contract of employment(since you work for the government by paying taxes) should be unenforceable by law. In addition in Canada there is a wide spread movement called free man on the land however this has been accomplished as the legal framework permits the individual to seek to be named as free man on the land and not a citizen of Canada as a citizen has achieved the legal standing of a legal entity and hence laws and regulations enacted through statutes do apply. Have you ever wondered why you are obliged by law to register your child with the government??? Well in Canada you are not obliged and the registration of a child to a government gives legal standing to the government over you. You therefore become a legal entity by waiver since you waive your rights of person and accept to be a legal entity under law hence all laws and statutes apply by simple waiver of the terms of contract. You therefore have accepted becoming party to the contract of labor mentioned above by waiving your rights. Just a simple way of how governments have enacted slavery without going against common law basics.

In jurisdictions where common law doesn’t have jurisdiction these arguments don’t exist. However I am starting an attempt to find legal holes in the system and seek to pursue my arguments through court to attempt and give a legal standing at least in my country of the concepts of compulsory taxation and in general the compulsory compliance of regulations the individual citizen has never chosen to partake in.

How should the political scene look and what political scheme should we adopt as the most efficient and effective for sustaining individual liberties whilst achieving the best for society as a whole.

I will start by sharing some personal learning experiences to show an intricacy of logic that is common ground for all logical people. The first comes from when I was young and despised many wrongs of the world and society. So whenever I started a discussion at home about I don’t like this or don’t like that or this is wrong my dad always presented me with the next step. He said ok so you think this should change ok so you say this is wrong how will you improve it how will you make it better? The bottom line being that it is easy to sit back and say I don’t like this I don’t like that but when it comes to implementing a way or strategy to overcome what we don’t like things get tough. The second comes from my bad grades in high school. I used to tell my dad but I studied but I read but my teacher didn’t like me but but but. He always used to tell me RESULT what is the result? I don’t care if you studied for ten years or ten minutes did you pass your test that’s all I care about. Now it is worthy to mention here that even attempts with the failed result also have value as the attempt on its own is a sign of effort and will. However in politics and in governments as a free man that elects people to perform services for the better being of myself and all in my country I expect results not effort. Its like having the CEO of a company going to its shareholders and saying you know I tried to sell x but failed but I tried they say ok we tried you as a CEO and failed so your fired. There are lines of business in which we do not accept effort only results and governments efforts are immaterial to me I only care about their results. Without being irrational by expecting unattainable things but by rather expecting the success of the logical goals set forth in the beginning. So on these two accepted ways of thought and problem solving I will attempt to create a political plane that will work for the benefit of the people and that will work efficiently effectively and for a better future for us all. Now who am I to do what no one has ever accomplished through human history il say no one im a spec of sand on an endless beach but as a spec in infinity I still have common logic and that’s all that’s needed. Now am I the first to have common knowledge surely not but of the leaders of the world no one wants to share simple and common logic for their power would fade rapidly. I do not seek power I do not seek recognition im here to analyze logically and propose a state of government that will ensure individual freedoms, will not allow corruption, will be for the benefit of the general public and not the few, will be in accordance with nature and in respect for it and finally a system in which we will not be slaves. Therefore my idea is to create a system where the government will work for the people and not the people for the government. I find it disgusting that we have accepted to work for any government. Why in the hell should I create an entity that guides my life that acts as my parent and that I am compelled to work for? I don’t need such a government and i think that whoever does is either stupid or part of the elite that gains from the way the system works. Its simple although it needs more work but the basic idea was underlined above. That is a government acting as any other business but with its mission statement being : to do anything and all In its powers to improve life, promote individual freedoms and provide necessary elements for a sustainable living for all citizens. Politicians will be liable for their actions to the people just as any manager in a corporation to the shareholders. The government will be obliged to create income for its expenses. The government will not be able to create income from the people by taxing them but only from legal businesses operated on such as exports such as services and such as goods. In this manner it will be the obligation of any politician in power to create income for the people not from the people. And the laws governing these public businesses will be the same as those for private industries and businesses. A logical argument here would be that private entities would find it impossible to compete with the public entities due to lack of resources. But as a citizen if a citizen can get the same good or service by the government cheaper we gain as a society. We might not gain individually against others but more uniform gain is attained. The purpose of government business will not be to take over all businesses through competition but rather find a balance between creating its own income and competing in a healthy environment. In this way the government will not be a burden on the people but it would rather work for its benefit and this is why we created governments in the first place. With these resources/ incomes all governmental expenses must be paid for. If there are additions needed the people can voluntarily help according to their wishes and their ability. When the expenses are more than the incomes than the politicians will be personably liable as said before whoever wishes will help the government but it is the government’s responsibility to be able to stand on its own. (this would be a good criteria for a successful government i.e. if they made it or not). And also why should I be forced to pay for something someone else uses when this responsibility should fall on the government?? The governments purpose should be to produce income to sustain public expenditure without relying on the income of its people. Otherwise why in the hell do we have a government?? I do not accept that the only financial purpose of the government is to decide and distribute according to the needs, income derived from the people, as we could achieve the same result with accountants. It’s the governments obligation to work for the people and not having the people work for the government. We made x we spent y and we profited w or we lost p and deal accordingly. More income more gains as a country less income less expenses for the people. Specific goals will be set and the people in government will have to achieve their goals or fail to leave others to pick up. No one guarantees the success but we are not guaranteed the success more by any form of government we see in our modern world today instead I see constant failure. This is the first draft a brainstorming of the concept not all parameters have been thought of this surely isn’t the in depth analysis I seek to create but rather a starting point. I expect you my friends to comment on my views express opinions and correct me where im wrong. at the end of the day this effort is not for personal satisfaction but rather for the creation of a new system that will be just and work for our benefit and not for the benefit of those in power!! We are all leaders and we need take out that aspect of ourselves and stop accepting other humans as our leaders and deciders of the way we are supposed to live. Slavery has been abolished on paper we need to abolish it however in the world we live in today!! Hope you enjoyed:bigjoint:
 

medicineman

New Member
First, before I attempt to show you your folly, I'd like to know what new system you think would work without some form of funding for all the infrastructure and government services we consume.
Your contention of slavery is folly for sure. Actually, as most everyone on this site seems to think, Income taxes are illegal anyway, so why don't all of you just stop paying. As one intelligent man once said,"any man that participates in an acceptable illegal act (such as paying this illegal tax) is as culpable as the designers of the act itself". So quit paying the tax and revel in the opportunities that exist from the rest of us criminals that actually pay for your retarded asses. Taxes are nothing new, and I'll venture to say there is a hell of a lot of wasteful spending, and also that no-one actually likes to pay them, but without them, you wouldn't be able to leave your house and take the freeway to work.
"Freeway", has a nice ring to it, but we all know, or should, that without taxes, there would only be a dirt path to lead you along the route to your job. There is a need for taxes, yes indeed, but the control of the spending needs much more citizen input, and the pork and wasteful spending being removed would probably bring that burden down to tolerable levels, heck just bringing the insane military budget under control would eliminate 1/3 of our tax burden, not to mention 2 insane wars. Yes my friends, we need to pay the piper, it's just that the piper needs to go on a huge diet.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Very interesting post, though I do have to offer a response to the part of saying that it is slavery. I disagree, and have to say that it is involuntary servitude. The government has been careful to refrain from saying that it owns us, and thus by logic we are still free. Unfortunately as the government has all the guns, and the backing of many, many idiots it has the ability to jail us for failing to pay taxes or obey its laws.

Totally absurd, in my opinion. I did not enter into any contract with government or any "representative" of government. I can understand the need to respect some laws that can be ascertained as coming from natural law. That is the right of everyone to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but when it comes to respecting laws that prohibit the usage of marijuana or the cultivation of hemp, I can only find that these laws are a gross violation of the natural laws guaranteeing everyone life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

From the natural rights guaranteed everyone of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness you have the following.

Murder is a crime - violation of a person's right to live

Rape is a crime - violation of a person's right to liberty (you are forcing them into involuntary servitude)

Theft is a crime - you are violating another person's liberty and life by stealing the product of their life and liberty.

Lying or committing fraudulent acts are of course the equivalent of theft and thus are also crimes.

Forcing others into Involuntary Servitude or Slavery is a crime because of the fact that you a depriving them of both their life, or products of, and their liberty, they are not free to leave.


Outside of those three laws, which essentially guarantee everyone the right to be allowed to live, have liberty, and pursue happiness in their own way.

If that means that a person is happy smoking cigarettes then it is their right to smoke cigarettes or marijuana. There is nothing in those God given rights that allows for any person, agency or organization to violate them, and dictate to people what they must and must not do. There is nothing in those laws that says that a person has a right to expect others to subsidize their existence at the expense of their own.

Taken together however, the above do require that everyone be responsible for their own actions, and the results that those actions bring upon themselves. Which means if a thief (or potential thief) breaks into some one's home and gets shot and survives they do not have the right to sue the home owner as it was a direct result of their violation of the home owner's right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness that lead them to be shot.

When a person is at the hospital and a doctor makes an honest mistake and willingly corrects it for free, then that person has no logical recourse. The problem was resolved, and thus there was no actual harm done, besides possibly some minor annoyance. That minor annoyance however can not be used as justification for having a lawyer attempt to sue the doctor.

On the other hand if the same person was to suffer real damage due to the mistake (like brain damage due to a lack of oxygen because a feeding tube was inserted wrong) then it is well with in their rights, or their families rights to sue the hospital or the doctor, because through a failure of due diligence the doctor, or employee damaged the life of that person.

How this relates to government is simple. As government is a construct of human beings it can not be given any powers that human beings do not have. Which means that it should not be allowed to enslave people, force them into bondage or steal their property. That is, as a person can not be given permission to violate another person's life, liberty or pursuit of happiness neither can the government.

The government is the servant of the people, and the servant can not be greater than the master. The servant can not have powers that the master does not have.
 

got2loveit

Well-Known Member
First, before I attempt to show you your folly, I'd like to know what new system you think would work without some form of funding for all the infrastructure and government services we consume.
im sorry but i guess you were too bored to read throughout my post:-(
Your contention of slavery is folly for sure. Actually, as most everyone on this site seems to think, Income taxes are illegal anyway, so why don't all of you just stop paying. As one intelligent man once said,"any man that participates in an acceptable illegal act (such as paying this illegal tax) is as culpable as the designers of the act itself". So quit paying the tax and revel in the opportunities that exist from the rest of us criminals that actually pay for your retarded asses. Taxes are nothing new, and I'll venture to say there is a hell of a lot of wasteful spending, and also that no-one actually likes to pay them, but without them, you wouldn't be able to leave your house and take the freeway to work. [/quote]
besides teling you you did not read my whole post i will add that roads are not built everyday neither most forms of infrastructure. i dont live in the usa im from a country in europe so i cant follow the common law legal path! in my country roads are renewed every 10-15 years i have seen many roads more than 25 years old! hospitals are built in the worst locations are never fully equipped either manned and underoperate constantly whilst the hospitas in the big cities are cramped with people again without enough staff whilst 40% of patients sleep on beds in the hall way!! the money is simply eaten down the road by corruption and exess spending with big private companies! i say we take the power from them i say the government as a government must create income through legal businesses and not through taxing! im sure there are public companies in the us here there are many from telecom to oil to most businesses with national importance! then they own land and buildings and they can also generate income from trade and by providing services just like any other business only with political liability and open books!! we have them to work for us thats why we pay them and give them authority i dont like the idea of them managing my money! also out of topic but i cant work from home live on my own farm with everything i need only wander with my all weel drive not on their roads or i cant even only stay at home and make millions off the internet without being taxed because i will be put in prison!! and why should i pay for you or someone else or why shouldnt i have the choice why am i obliged?? back to topic i want them to work to make money for the community not take money from it! because when u take off it u become a leach like all politicians today if you have to work and generate income that u r productive this is the only way to make a government productive otherwise they become stupid muches that leach and depend on us workers to feed them and their stupid system!!!:wall: so when they work to generate income and their goal is to overcome necessary expenditure just as the expenditure we have today and i would say even more! lets pay politicians more than ceo's of oil companies so they have the insentive to pull all strings back up and stop corruption!!! with no corruption, no un necessary expenditure and a government that must generate its own income every economy will flurish!!!
"Freeway", has a nice ring to it, but we all know, or should, that without taxes, there would only be a dirt path to lead you along the route to your job. There is a need for taxes, yes indeed, but the control of the spending needs much more citizen input, and the pork and wasteful spending being removed would probably bring that burden down to tolerable levels, heck just bringing the insane military budget under control would eliminate 1/3 of our tax burden, not to mention 2 insane wars. Yes my friends, we need to pay the piper, it's just that the piper needs to go on a huge diet.[/quote]
they spend all this money because they own the companies that support the military or make money off the purchases(huge amounts) money you pay!!!!! so if they need to generate their expenditure like me you and every other business than they will innevitably need to cut down their costs first so we give the politicians the incentive, punish them if they act illegaly, and make it part of their job to generate enough income to facilitate expenditures!!! they work for us not we for them!!!!!:wall:
 

Jointsmith

Well-Known Member
I think the whole institute of MONEY is corrupt, but I think it will all change soon.

People think money is power but they are wrong.

KNOWLEDGE is power.

The internet is expanding and ever more people are logging on the potentially infinite amount of knowledge and information being freely shared.

I feel a MASSIVE change in world society coming soon.
 

ViRedd

New Member
hospitals are built in the worst locations are never fully equipped either manned and underoperate constantly whilst the hospitas in the big cities are cramped with people again without enough staff whilst 40% of patients sleep on beds in the hall way!!
Government run health care, I bet.

got2 ... what socialist country are you in?

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
im sorry but i guess you were too bored to read throughout my post:-(
Your contention of slavery is folly for sure. Actually, as most everyone on this site seems to think, Income taxes are illegal anyway, so why don't all of you just stop paying. As one intelligent man once said,"any man that participates in an acceptable illegal act (such as paying this illegal tax) is as culpable as the designers of the act itself". So quit paying the tax and revel in the opportunities that exist from the rest of us criminals that actually pay for your retarded asses. Taxes are nothing new, and I'll venture to say there is a hell of a lot of wasteful spending, and also that no-one actually likes to pay them, but without them, you wouldn't be able to leave your house and take the freeway to work.
besides teling you you did not read my whole post i will add that roads are not built everyday neither most forms of infrastructure. i dont live in the usa im from a country in europe so i cant follow the common law legal path! in my country roads are renewed every 10-15 years i have seen many roads more than 25 years old! hospitals are built in the worst locations are never fully equipped either manned and underoperate constantly whilst the hospitas in the big cities are cramped with people again without enough staff whilst 40% of patients sleep on beds in the hall way!! the money is simply eaten down the road by corruption and exess spending with big private companies! i say we take the power from them i say the government as a government must create income through legal businesses and not through taxing! im sure there are public companies in the us here there are many from telecom to oil to most businesses with national importance! then they own land and buildings and they can also generate income from trade and by providing services just like any other business only with political liability and open books!! we have them to work for us thats why we pay them and give them authority i dont like the idea of them managing my money! also out of topic but i cant work from home live on my own farm with everything i need only wander with my all weel drive not on their roads or i cant even only stay at home and make millions off the internet without being taxed because i will be put in prison!! and why should i pay for you or someone else or why shouldnt i have the choice why am i obliged?? back to topic i want them to work to make money for the community not take money from it! because when u take off it u become a leach like all politicians today if you have to work and generate income that u r productive this is the only way to make a government productive otherwise they become stupid muches that leach and depend on us workers to feed them and their stupid system!!!:wall: so when they work to generate income and their goal is to overcome necessary expenditure just as the expenditure we have today and i would say even more! lets pay politicians more than ceo's of oil companies so they have the insentive to pull all strings back up and stop corruption!!! with no corruption, no un necessary expenditure and a government that must generate its own income every economy will flurish!!!
"Freeway", has a nice ring to it, but we all know, or should, that without taxes, there would only be a dirt path to lead you along the route to your job. There is a need for taxes, yes indeed, but the control of the spending needs much more citizen input, and the pork and wasteful spending being removed would probably bring that burden down to tolerable levels, heck just bringing the insane military budget under control would eliminate 1/3 of our tax burden, not to mention 2 insane wars. Yes my friends, we need to pay the piper, it's just that the piper needs to go on a huge diet.[/quote]
they spend all this money because they own the companies that support the military or make money off the purchases(huge amounts) money you pay!!!!! so if they need to generate their expenditure like me you and every other business than they will innevitably need to cut down their costs first so we give the politicians the incentive, punish them if they act illegaly, and make it part of their job to generate enough income to facilitate expenditures!!! they work for us not we for them!!!!!:wall:[/quote]
So basically, you live in europe and propose to teach us how to run our government. I must say, at least your country has health coverage for everyone, might not be the greatest, but unlike here in the US where they routinely throw poor people into the streets without treating their illness, one can get some care, even if it isn't up to par. I imagine we could learn some things from europe. Afterall, their culture and governments have been around a lot longer than ours. The US I grew up in has dissapeared, it is now more like a totalitarian regime, where every day more of your freedoms hit the pavement to be steamrolled by big brother. I had great hopes for Obama, but something tells me we were hoodwinked and he has sidled up to the Powers that be. His refusal to investigate the Bush atrocities and the Bush justice department has caused me great concern for his policies. Retaing rendition and hemming now on Gitmo, piss me off big time. It's really frustrating when one votes for change and gets the same old shit. I also notice he has no intentions of reducing all those unconstitutional Presidential powers that Bush weazeled through. His rating by me is at present rather dismal. He'd better come around and start sticking to his campaign promises, or he'll be a one term president. We didn't vote for Dubya III, at least I didn't.
 

ViRedd

New Member
I had great hopes for Obama, but something tells me we were hoodwinked and he has sidled up to the Powers that be. His refusal to investigate the Bush atrocities and the Bush justice department has caused me great concern for his policies. Retaing rendition and hemming now on Gitmo, piss me off big time. It's really frustrating when one votes for change and gets the same old shit. I also notice he has no intentions of reducing all those unconstitutional Presidential powers that Bush weazeled through. His rating by me is at present rather dismal. He'd better come around and start sticking to his campaign promises, or he'll be a one term president. We didn't vote for Dubya III, at least I didn't.
Music to my ears, Med. I always thought that if you hung around here long enough, you'd start to catch on. :lol:

Do you remember during the campaign when I and others repeatedly asked you to define what Obama meant by "Change" and you had no answer? Well ... now you know.

And to date, it appears that you didn't vote for Dubya III, but that you voted instead for Clintoon's third term. :bigjoint:

Vi
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
First off, Our tax money med thinks is so damn important covers nothing but the interest on the Debt and government budget screw ups. So if our Tax money that makes us slave's is being spent to repay Banksters interest on money they create out of nothing who are we really owned by? Not the Government we are the property of banksters the government is only their enforcement arm.

Income tax is necessary if we want all the wars and nation-building and a police state at home its just necessary. However reduce our budget to what it should be with a non-interventionist government more worried about protecting liberty then protecting us from ourselves and we could do away with personal income taxes in short order. Now I'm not talking about Social Security or medicare contributions here those are not strictly speaking income taxes. However I think they should be voluntary contributions not mandatory.
 

got2loveit

Well-Known Member
besides teling you you did not read my whole post i will add that roads are not built everyday neither most forms of infrastructure. i dont live in the usa im from a country in europe so i cant follow the common law legal path! in my country roads are renewed every 10-15 years i have seen many roads more than 25 years old! hospitals are built in the worst locations are never fully equipped either manned and underoperate constantly whilst the hospitas in the big cities are cramped with people again without enough staff whilst 40% of patients sleep on beds in the hall way!! the money is simply eaten down the road by corruption and exess spending with big private companies! i say we take the power from them i say the government as a government must create income through legal businesses and not through taxing! im sure there are public companies in the us here there are many from telecom to oil to most businesses with national importance! then they own land and buildings and they can also generate income from trade and by providing services just like any other business only with political liability and open books!! we have them to work for us thats why we pay them and give them authority i dont like the idea of them managing my money! also out of topic but i cant work from home live on my own farm with everything i need only wander with my all weel drive not on their roads or i cant even only stay at home and make millions off the internet without being taxed because i will be put in prison!! and why should i pay for you or someone else or why shouldnt i have the choice why am i obliged?? back to topic i want them to work to make money for the community not take money from it! because when u take off it u become a leach like all politicians today if you have to work and generate income that u r productive this is the only way to make a government productive otherwise they become stupid muches that leach and depend on us workers to feed them and their stupid system!!!:wall: so when they work to generate income and their goal is to overcome necessary expenditure just as the expenditure we have today and i would say even more! lets pay politicians more than ceo's of oil companies so they have the insentive to pull all strings back up and stop corruption!!! with no corruption, no un necessary expenditure and a government that must generate its own income every economy will flurish!!!
"Freeway", has a nice ring to it, but we all know, or should, that without taxes, there would only be a dirt path to lead you along the route to your job. There is a need for taxes, yes indeed, but the control of the spending needs much more citizen input, and the pork and wasteful spending being removed would probably bring that burden down to tolerable levels, heck just bringing the insane military budget under control would eliminate 1/3 of our tax burden, not to mention 2 insane wars. Yes my friends, we need to pay the piper, it's just that the piper needs to go on a huge diet.
they spend all this money because they own the companies that support the military or make money off the purchases(huge amounts) money you pay!!!!! so if they need to generate their expenditure like me you and every other business than they will innevitably need to cut down their costs first so we give the politicians the incentive, punish them if they act illegaly, and make it part of their job to generate enough income to facilitate expenditures!!! they work for us not we for them!!!!!:wall:[/quote]
So basically, you live in europe and propose to teach us how to run our government. I must say, at least your country has health coverage for everyone, might not be the greatest, but unlike here in the US where they routinely throw poor people into the streets without treating their illness, one can get some care, even if it isn't up to par. I imagine we could learn some things from europe. Afterall, their culture and governments have been around a lot longer than ours. The US I grew up in has dissapeared, it is now more like a totalitarian regime, where every day more of your freedoms hit the pavement to be steamrolled by big brother. I had great hopes for Obama, but something tells me we were hoodwinked and he has sidled up to the Powers that be. His refusal to investigate the Bush atrocities and the Bush justice department has caused me great concern for his policies. Retaing rendition and hemming now on Gitmo, piss me off big time. It's really frustrating when one votes for change and gets the same old shit. I also notice he has no intentions of reducing all those unconstitutional Presidential powers that Bush weazeled through. His rating by me is at present rather dismal. He'd better come around and start sticking to his campaign promises, or he'll be a one term president. We didn't vote for Dubya III, at least I didn't.[/quote]

medicine man i am not telling you how to run your country or anyone in particular im saying what i believe about my country and how i will try to enact some kind of change as i have a legal background!! and im talking about a government without power over its people but with people having power over their government!! if the judicial system is independent then no president need order a hearing the judicial system on its own must have started the process or any citizen could have started it by suing the president for fraud! all political leaders speak of change u should see what happens here they all come out before elections and say and say and say and when they get the office they do nothing they do even worst than their predecessors! so lets take the power away from them lets make a government that will work for us just as a manager would work for his shareholders and have personal liability for anything they do!! now if you did this 95% of known politicians wouldnt participate because they would know that the basics of the system changed that is from being an employer to becoming a worker and no politic would want to work for society unless they had innocent intentions!!! and those are the people that should be in office not the ones that do it for personal ambition goals or recognition!!
 

got2loveit

Well-Known Member
i agree with you but i find the only method to force any politician to conform with the peoples wishes and act in benefit of the country and people we must create a political system which will force politicians to adopt a different way in spending money and creating income!! i say that if we create a government that needs to create its own income from legal businesses to support its expenses just like any company!! so politicians will not be able to spend money they didnt earn they will be forced hence to cut back and they will not be able use excuses anymore about why things are not working as we will expect results just like shareholders!! we will make them work for us why should we work for them??
 

MuaySmoke

Well-Known Member
I don't think there is anyway for the people to force those points unless something drastic like a riot happens. Hey, that's what America needs; a HUGE riot saying they aren't going to take this crap from the government anymore. I bet that the American government would drive a tank over someone to stop the riot. I'll put money on that one.

I've never understood the point of giving the banks money so that they can give out credit and put people into further dept. They call that stimulating the economy? Seems like they're trying to make the people so far in dept that they'll depend on the government forever. It doesn't make sense to me; let's put another $790 billion into something that didn't work the first time, but this time there are rules. Give me a break. American Government is a business first before anything.
 
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