small setup bunch of questions

Used to read some of these forums years ago. I've got a couple of free spaces now and am really considering starting my first grow in the next couple of months. Really it's when I feel comfortable and confident with what I'm purchasing.

So I've got a 5.5x7 closet, that has a lil door in the ceiling that goes to the attic above (it's not clean and looks like no one has been there in a decade), in the attic there is a vent to the backyard 5-6 feet away... and on the other side of the closet wall, a small closet that has a door to the backyard. So i imagine I can duct/vent that 5 feet through the attic or put a hole in the wall into the backyard closet (which is more like 2-3 feet distance to outside), I'd rather not put a hole though. What about intake, do i need fresh air coming in from the backyard (or the bedroom) with a carbon filter and inline fan for that also? This is an old home, I'm not sure what sort of electricity demand what I'm thinking about will require and if it will cause an issue.

To start, and there is potentially a free 10x12 room too, but I'm considering this is my first grow, I'm thinking that closet space with a 2x4 or a 4x4 tent. I want to do LED to save on electricity and heat, I'm looking at Advanced Platinum Series P600 600w. Would I do one for a 2x4 or two for a 4x4? Are the ventilation requirements different as far as fans/filters since I'm using LED in this space?

I like having a variety of strains if possible (at least 2-3 at a time, more if possible), so I'd like to do a SOG. I figure I can just try to find strains that grow in similar ways, or can I actually do a mix of indica and sativa that flower at different times? In a 2x4, 4x4 tent, does that mean i'm vegging for a month and flowering for 2? Do I incorporate cloning.. should I have (2) 2x4 tents so I can have like a propagation tent and the flower tent in a L shape? Is that necessary for SOG? I'm starting from seed, and they seem more expensive now, so seems I need to be doing the clone thing?

I'm also a real stickler about quality and would like to (with practice) get to a point where I'm growing 25%+ thc buds like I find in some of the shops I've been to. I don't like the idea (at all) of growing medium or regular quality so I will not be super happy if even my first harvest isn't high quality haha. Any tips there? I've wanted to ask... how are people growing that 25-30% thc bud?

I like the idea of Aero... something about it seems like it would grow really clean tasting bud. I'm open to some other medium, what is the best option for less expensive medium since it's my first grow, but also something I'm going to be happy with the quality of bud that comes from it?

What are little things I may be missing? I've thought of small fans to hang inside, timers, hydrometer, do i need a ppm meter, could I have one type of nutrient or set of nutrients for use across the variety of strains? Do i need to incorporate some form of (hopefully inexpensive) co2 or can nutrients do that?

Am I right that a 2x4 set up like I'm thinking to start with (aero, led, ventilation) will be about $2000? a 4x4 $3000ish?

Also, the short term goal here is to have the highest quality bud I can manage from the closet, coming out as frequently as possible, with a variety of strains. I personally would like to be able to blaze an ounce a week that way, that would be the minimum I'd be ok with seeing... but if I have more how could that not be a good thing. Should my expectations be at the ounce a week thing or is a bit more possible here?

You're wise for choosing LEDs, but bear in mind that the advertised wattage rating is generally double the wattage that it actually pumps out. The reason is that the manufacturers take the max wattage of each LED (which would immediately burn out the LED) and multiply that by the number of LEDs. Consumer reports on the Platinum series looked good tho, and with one of those 600w you could probably flower 6 or more plants with ease.

Regarding your question about beefing up on the THC%- from what I read you are already on the right track using LEDs. Sometimes when you flower with only LEDs you end up with deficiencies in other chemical compounds that naturally show up in bud, like CBD etc.

Are you planning to use soil or can you afford to go hydro? It is expensive and more work, but when grown hydroponically, plants grow bigger, faster, and more colors/chrystals, and the bud is noticeably danker. If you can afford it, it is the way to go.

I am completely willing to go hydro if it gets me the desired results. I used to read the dwc forum here years back.. with hydro I like the idea of like large plants scrogged, and with the space i can only see like 1-2 plants in a 2x4, or 2-4 in a 4x4? that was actually my original idea, but the harvesting in shorter time, multiple strain thing really sounds good to me, I don't want the same single smoke for weeks and months at a time. if hydro is going to get me the quality though that is the way I'd go.

I know what you mean about the single strain thing. It doesn't take long to build up a tolerance to a particular strain, so it's nice to have multiple on hand to keep your THC receptors from getting too comfortable.

As for space, you may be able to squeeze 3 or 4 plants into a 4x4, even with hydro, depending on the size of each growing tank. I've heard of people doing just fine with an 8 or so gallon tank for each plant. Tubes and water pumps and your resivour underneath should also be able to fit in a 4x4, I would think, if you made a point to make it compact. Also, multiple plants can inhabit one large (usually 30-50 gal) tank, and if you can do that it would probably simplify things a little.

Also, to ensure that you grow dank buds, maybe an augmentory warm spectrum light for flowering could be implemented. Lots of lumens in general, especially lots of reds and oranges in flowering will grow better buds. Dial up on blue/green/violet to stimulate speedy and healthy vegetative growth

EDIT: While the grow tent is a good idea for light-proofing your plants' environment for the "night hours", it may be space efficient and cost-effective to just line your closet with mylar, like I have done in the pic below. Inexpensive, thermal resistant, it makes a pretty good reflective medium. Also a way you could free up a bit of your budget if necessary. Food for thought.

So I'm looking into this again, and I could do a 30-50 gallon rubbermaid, igloo, something like that, scrog 3-4 plants inside a 4x4. Or, 3-4 8+gallon pots and a similarly sized resevoir underneath them? I don't mind a little work, but I'm not the best at building stuff from scratch, although it doesn't seem difficult. Would something like a few gh mega farms (that says 20gal?) work?

With a 4x4, am I right that I need ducting going in and out with two filters and fans for each?

Thank you for the advice on adding different types of lighting, makes perfect sense I'm looking into it.

I haven't done hydro myself because I can't afford to yet, but I've seen a friend or two do it and it sounds to me like you've pretty much got the right idea as far as what you'll need as far as pumps, filters, tubes, tanks, etc. Also, monitoring and adjusting your PH level is ridiculously easy when you have a good hydro setup, as long as you have all the right tools and supplements. You could probably learn a lot by checking out the hydro/aeroponics sub forum.

As far as augmentory lights, I've been hearing awesome things about a fairly new technology- COB (chip-on-board type LEDs). They stay cooler, are more efficient, and have a wider range of spectrum that caters beautifully to photosynthesis- efficiency is key when you're trying to minimize heat and maximize lumens getting to your plants. If you get the parts and build a panel of these yourself, from what I gather you can build a COB panel for under $200 that will grow circles around any store-bought LED panel that costs twice that... With all of those pros and so few cons, rest assured I'll be looking into building one of those suckers for myself, hopefully by the new year.

Personally, I do not like tents. You already have a 5x7' closet, why put a tent in the space? I realize you are contemplating LED's, but with a smaller tent you will have to combat heat issues.

So, the reasons I thought a tent are that I'm renting and plan to move in a year or two, but I suppose I could just take the mylar down if it wouldn't damage the walls or anything. Also... sound/odor control, I imagined with a tent if someone comes in they're less likely to smell through the house, or if they go in the bedroom they're less likely to hear fans, or in the next room or bathroom not hearing the fans or pumps. I personally wouldn't want to hear it much or see light coming from the closet as it's my bedroom... the walls are definitely thin in the place and sound travels.

Cost wise, it makes sense to do mylar and I'm definitely considering it now. What would I put on the floor which is carpet? With the door shut I def see light coming from the bottom and top. How would this work with the light and sound of the pumps and fans? Also, if I'm using the full 5x7 space then don't I need 3 of those LED lights to cover it? I'm open to this idea, but my concerns would be sound, smell and having to buy more light?

So I'm pretty much convinced on hydro now, I'll want 2-3 of em in the space and do a scrog for each. I'm thinking a few of these: http://www.discount-hydro.com/titan-controls-flo-n-gro-big-momma-bubbler-bucket/ - not seeing a ton of options for ready made hydro buckets... and the common 5 gal ones seem a lil small no? Or would it be smarter for sound to buy my own pumps and tubes and airstones due to quality of the product and it'd be quieter? Do I have to have a separate reservoir and connect all the piping and fittings and stuff (don't want to do honestly) or can each bucket be like it's own hydro system

I really want to just order everything at once, pick a few things up locally, and it be like ready to go quickly... but keeping it under $3000 for sure.

Mylar is lightweight and can be stapled to walls. I would recommend something black like plastic sheets or spray painted cardboard to put up before the mylar for added light insulation to keep in grow light and keep out light distortion during your dark cycle. You're planning to use a ventilation system, correct? In that case, run your dank air out of your vent. Odor should not be too noticeable until after you've started flower anyway.

Your Platinum 600 series should be able to light a 5x7 at least for veg. You will want to play it by ear for flower, depending on the actual wattage/color spectrum distribution. Augmentory lighting is never a bad idea.

5 gal might be enough for hydro, considering that all the nutrients the plant needs are constantly surrounding it, so smallish root systems should be fine. As far as having a resivour, I don't believe it's absolutely necessary. You could go with already put together hydro kits if you want, but my guess is that if you build your systems yourself, you will probably end up with a higher quality end product that is more suitable to your application. As far as noise level, it shouldnt be much louder than a medium sized fish tank filter, especially if you get quality filters.

I don't think you should have to spend even $2000 on everything you need, possibly even including a not-too-expensive augmentory light to boost wattage levels for flower. Those Platinum series looked like just about the top of the line among standard LEDs according to every "best LEDs 2015" article I read and they looked good in consumer reports. You may be able to do the whole grow with that one light comfortably.

Also, closet grows are nice because if you do have any problems with sound or light you can always cut styrofoam the shape of your closet door with dimensions ever so slightly larger so that when you wedge it in there it seals up any leaks you couldn't otherwise stop. Cheap and effective.

About the carpet, I don't think it's that big of a deal, especially if you're renting. However, I have a friend who ripped up all his carpet before he started growing in his room... but then again he's pretty OCD. Honestly, it probably doesnt matter. You could always put a layer of mylar on the floor for good measure. I mean, I've got CD's at the base of most of my plants to add reflection, and most CDs seem to refract white light into blue and red quite nicely. Helps with full spectrum, hopefully. All experimental thus far

So, if you're planning to use the whole 5x7, that should comfortably fit 12ish plants. A good rule of thumb on LEDs is to expect to need 50 actual LED watts per plant for flowering. Actual LED watts tend to be about half advertised wattage ratings, which means the Platinum Series 600 should be able to flower about 6 plants simulatneously by it's self. I would recommend to do some cross lighting if you get the 600w Platinum... probably you could build a 4-light, 200ish watt COB that should compliment nicely for about half the cost of the Platinum. Only problem is, it might piss you off that the plants will have a tendency to grow toward the homemade light rather than the store bought for two reasons: simply better efficiency will pump out more lumens per watt. More light/less heat than your conventional LEDs. Also, white COB will give you across the board spectrum lighting; white COB light breaks down to have a nice amount of every color in the visible spectrum. There was a graph on this somewhere around this forum... lol
Edit: found it! This chart compares readable multi-frequency light for photosynthesis be tween a COB that mimics HPS colored light and an actual HPS light. Let alone the efficiency and reduction of heat, just look at all this usable spectrum!

Hahaha I'm kind of floored and maybe convinced? Making more sense to buy one of the led's and do the cob lighting, I mean the way you explain it and how the image illustrates, doesn't make sense not to do it? I was having no luck finding them or knowing which pieces to put together for the panel you called it. Would you actually suggest all cob lighting. Sounds like I should do those and the led, or just cob, and cardboard, mylar the room to get going.

Found help to build hydro buckets, access to everything i'd need to cut saw build furniture even haha. I'm thinking to just use that to build buckets on like a lil wood platform with rollers and scrogs attached to the top? Now, with your help, I'm interested in saving money and buying really good quality stuff doing it right the first time. what do you suggest for custom (within reason I'm not trying to go crazy but will have access to stuff) buckets? what about pumps, filters and media? I thought igloos might be good for some reason to keep the water cool (that seems important, anything i should consider?) or is something less expensive cool?

So I did plan for ventilation, I figured it was mandatory. I liked the idea of can fans or panasonic whipser? I would set those up with ducting, have 2 fans at the end of 2 ducts up near the vent, one in one out. The distance from ceiling to vent not being very far i figured one fan for the outtake, then for the other duct.. it's going along the ceiling to the floor on the opposite end of the closet near the door to the bedroom? do i need a 3rd fan there? a few small oscillating fans placed strategically? do i have carbon filters next to each inline fan? is regular ducting fine or insultated better? i need controllers for each fan, how does that work? i figured 4" would probably work for the space, but 6" if that is best? for filters what length?

You can learn pretty much everything you need to know about diy cobs in the LED sub-forum in the Indoor Growing section. Here is a helpful thread for matching chips with drivers- http://rollitup.org/t/matching-drivers-and-cobs.883866/
As far as frequency/color, with single-chip cobs you generally want to go with some form of white (preferably higher frequency white for veg, lower frequency white for flower) as opposed to making multi-chip lights, with which it is a good idea to purchase chips of diversified frequencies (there are specific frequencies of light in every color that caters to photosynthesis exceptionally well). Still, I would rather slap together a single, high-wattage white cob with astounding color distribution than spend a week soldering a bunch of chips to a board. I want to have one up and running asap, hopefully in time to flower.

Fans are good, as long as you get fans that don't produce much heat. One or two relatively low power fans should be fine for airating the garden, keeping leaves from being scorched and strengthening your husk/roots. What brand shouldnt really matter, as long as it doesnt get too warm or blow your plants over, which are good reasons to look for medium/low watt fans.

You shouldn't absolutely require ventilation for veg, but if you want to be able to have company in your home while you're flowering without them smelling it, you will need to either vent to outside or get a state-of-the-art air filter, probably cheaper to just vent by the time you're spending hundreds on a decent air filter.

Extra C02 can only help, especially if you're growing 10+ plants, but if you have people or animals in your home most of the time that should provide them with plenty of carbon in the air. Even brewing alcohol (which I'm currently also doing) puts carbon into the air. And just think of all the carbon vehicles put in the air! Amazing we can breathe at all amymore xD

My buddy is nearly ready to start his hydro project... Got buckets with tubes, chronic seedlings, nutes and a 600 watt MH!

He's got a 4 reggs in soil already that I started with my reggs... Nice and bushy at about 8-9 weeks veg

Plan to start a grow journal here soon. Will this board be a good place to get feedback and help as I go through it?

I've got most of the stuff for the closet now, at least I think I do...

Ordered the rootspa 8 bucket system pictured above, two sets of 6" hydrofarm fans and phresh filters, gh flora series, gh ph up/down, regular osc fans, ppm meter, timers, ducting, temp/humidty monitor, rapid rooters.

I've only got one of the P600 LED lights so far. As i do more research.. seems like i need 3-4 P600's total for my closet?

From what I'm reading it seems the P600's are using the particular types of light needed for veg/bloom?

Here's some of the description:

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Platinum-P600-12-band-Grow/dp/B00NTC2XRO/ref=lp_10321450011_1_3?srs=10321450011&ie=UTF8&qid=1452124729&sr=8-3

"The secret to the PlatinumLED success is combining an optimal blend of 12 different bands of complete light spectrum all the way from the depths of UV to the upper IR - giving your plants exactly the finely tuned spectrum that they need. Further intensified by integrated 90 degree secondary focusing lenses that penetrate deep within the canopy, our higher-output, cooler running, more efficient 3W LEDs simply blow away the competition.

What’s more, all of our lights feature selectable Veg and Bloom light spectrums to deliver maximum performance from seedling through final flower and harvest. The Veg spectrum features a more purple/blue heavy output which leaf development favors. Simply engage the Bloom switch together with the Veg switch to enable 100% panel power while shifting the spectral output to a bloom happy, pink/red heavy output. No need for any supplemental lighting as we have you covered from seedling to harvest."

So it seems like these lights essentially do the job of providing the specific light types (red, purple, blue etc) for veg/bloom as needed?

Does anyone have advice for the rest of the lighting since I've only got one P600 so far?

Is adding another (total of 2) P600's cool? or do I really need 3 more for a total of 4 for the 5x7 space?

I'm thinking I can basically start things with what I've got once I get the closet set up with the cardboard/mylar and ventilation this weekend. But I'd need to have the rest of the lighting within the first month, is that right? My impression is I could start to veg with the one led in veg mode... but by flower I need more lighting?

I'm leaning toward one strain.. HSO Black Dog (Headband x Blackberry Kush), but if i can swing 2-3 strain on my first grow I really want to do it so I have that variety, if possible indica and sativa out of the same grow. With the Root Spa 8 bucket system.. it looks like I could do diff strains cuz they're not sharing a reservoir? I'm adjusting nutrients for each bucket separately, right? If I have 4 P600's, I could have them at different heights for different strains, 2 plants per light, right? But then I think, when it's time to turn the lights out and flush that could be the issue if I've got a 7-8 week strain and a 10 week strain... any advice there?

Doesn't matter if plants share rootspace or airspace; as long as none are males or hermies there can and will be no cross-pollenation possible, thus no accidental cross breeding of strains.

You should be able to get by in veg with just the p600 panel, from what I read, seems like it would be ideal on 100% power (veg & flower mode) all the time for max lumen output. As long as you've got cool and warm spectrum and sufficient lumen output you can veg or flower well. With decent powered LED panels, you generally have a fairly wide range of distance at which you are recommended to have the panel from the tops of your plants (for instance my Galaxyhydro300 is recommended to be kept 1.5-4.5 meters from the tops of my plants, though it stays cool enough to comfortably run about 4" from the plants) so you should have no problem keeping all your lights at the same height, even if your plants differ up to a couple of feet in height.

http://rollitup.org/t/if-you-are-new-to-led-and-want-help-choosing-what-to-buy-post-here.633304/page-396#post-12207531

^That is a link to a thread made for those who are considering LED/COB and helping them to choose the proper lighting options for their setup. Lots of good info in there. The way I see it, you can go one or all of three ways with your lighting options from here. You can go the easy/ expensive route and stock up on a couple more p600s by the time you flower. You can get a 600 or 1000w HPS bulb and ballast by the time you flower and complement the p600 you already have with an HID vert system (you can read up on that technique under forums>vertical growing). Or, probably your best option, supplement the p600 you have with (estimatedly) 200-400 DIY COB watts. You want 20 plus COB watts per sq. foot, but you already have the LED panel. You can click the link at the top of this post and post your lighting question, someone experienced will give you a more accurate idea of what you're going to need as far as chips, drivers, heatsinks, fans, and total supplemental COB wattage needed for your grow space. Hope this helped, and let me know if you would like me to elaborate on any of the above