Snafu's Mycorrhizae Propagation Technique (Myko cakes)

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
A couple weeks ago I posted a neat little trick on breeding mychorrizal hyphae here on RIU. I taught myself this neat little trick a few years back now; I don't claim to be the 'inventor" of this technique(like some RIU members do here), but I did teach it to myself, and it works.

Since the post, I have received numerous questions, messages and responses about this technique. I figured it may be beneficial to the community to see this information on it's own thread. I hope you enjoy it.

Though I do not have any personal pictures readily available, I do plan on snapping a few from my next batch as this thread picks up. I just never figured of taking pictures of fungal masses, but my, how things do change:)


Snafu's Mychorrizae Propagation Technique
-Transplanting, Top-Dressing, AACTs-

1. Invest in a well-reviewed Mychorrizae product. I am currently using Great White, although I used other Mycorrhizae before Great White came out. Just make sure its endomycorrhizl, and not ecto. Ectomychorrizae is for trees.

2. Buy powdered baby oatmeal.

3. Buy a germination heat mat with temperature gauge.

3. Take some organic soil, about a teaspoon, mix it with a tablespoon of alaskan humus(more woody branches/chips the better) and put it in a light-proof coffee can.. Then, dump about 5 TBSP of powdered baby oatmeal into that mix. If you have some azomite, or GO Rare Earth, throw a tsp of that in too. Then, dump in less than a pinch of Mycorrhizae...the less the better. Just make sure you get something. Honestly, I just take the cap of the Great White and tap the DUST over the can and that is more than sufficient.

4. Get some de-chlorinated water and pour some in the can, making the solution damp but not soaking wet.

5. Put a dark or light-proof top on the can, and poke one pen-tip sized hole in the center of the top of the can(to release gases and condensation).

6. Place on top of germination heat mat at 75-80. I keep mine at 76.

7. Leave on heated mat in a decently-ventilated darker room (you do not want a stale-air room) for 2-5 days. The breeding time can vary, depending on the amount of Mychorrizae used.

8. Make sure the solution in the can never gets soaking wet, or completely dry. Think of it like your germinating seeds. You want a happy medium of moisture and air.

9. Open the can. Not the best picture, but you will see something like this:

mycorrhizae_woodland_planting.jpg

10. Now, what you see here are tens of thousands of microscopic mychorrizal fungi hyphal(small fungus strands) that are actively consuming the energy sources you provided in the can. This white mass is a bunch of interwoven/interlocking and dissecting strands that create a massive symbiotic network with a host plant's root system.

11. Innoculate. Then water top soil if top-dressing.

Place this at the base of the hole when transplanting clones, seedlings, up-potting, whatever. Or, place this mass as a top-dressing to your current soil container.

If top dressing, YOU MUST COVER THE HYPHAL LAYER WITH MROE ORGANIC SOIL ON TOP. Mycorrihae breeds in dark environments, and direct exposure to the elements will kill the delicate hyphal network.

You can also place this into an AACT prior to bacterial innoculation of your AACT. Since bacteria multiplies much faster than fungus, throw this mass in the AACT a day prior to the other components (aside from molasses and more baby oatmeal) to give the fungus a head start.

12. Rinse, wash, repeat. Never buy mychorrizae again. Just keep breeding Myko Cakes to continue the process.

I10-68-mycorrhizal.jpg
mycorrhiza+image.jpg
Underneath the soil layer, it should look something like this, with multiple mycorrhizal pockets already developing from natural formation. We just speed up the process.
 

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
ive heard that mycorrhizal is most needed during flowering? im sure all of the plants cycle, but more for flowering.......
 

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
In organics, mycorhizzae and other beneficial bacteria and fungi are what consume the organic matter and make it into a form that is ready for the plant to uptake. It is an intricate and vital part to any cycle of growing.
 

piney bob

Active Member
yep, thats how you grow shrooms. haha. so can i just throw a cake in when i mix my fertilizer into the soil? is there such thing as too much? or is enough enough?
 

MalcolmMustang

Well-Known Member
Nice recipe. Do you think it would it work to use Humboldt nutrients Myco madness instead? It already contains the Humus but it also contains bacteria. Would the bacteria breed faster then the fungi? Here are the ingredients in the myco madness which is a soluble powder.

[h=3]Guaranteed Analysis[/h]
Bacteria:
Bacillus licheniformis………………….……….…372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus azotoformans……………..…….………372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus megaterium.…………..…..……..….….372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus coagulans,…….…………………………372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus pumilis…………..…….………………….372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus thuringiensis…………..………………….372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus stearothermiphillis…….………………….372 million cfu/lb
Paenibacillus polymyxa….…………..…………….372 million cfu/lb
Paenibacillus durum…………………..…………….372 million cfu/lb
Paenibacillus florescence..………….………..….372 million cfu/lb
Paenibacillus gordonae…..………….…………….372 million cfu/lb
Azotobacter polymxa………………….………..….372 million cfu/lb
Azotobacter chroococcum……………………..….372 million cfu/lb
Sacchromyces cervisiae………………………..….372 million cfu/lb
Pseudomonas aureofaceans…………………..….372 million cfu/lb
Mycorrhiza:
Endomycorrhizal/cc

Glomus intraradices……………….……..…1,135 propagules per lb
Glomas mosseae……………………………1,135 propagules per lb
Glomas aggregatum………………………..1,135 propagules per lb
Glomus entunicatum……………..…………1,135 propagules per lb
Glomus clarum………………….………..….1,135 propagules per lb
Glomus deserticola….………………………1,135 propagules per lb
Gigaspora margarita………..………………1,135 propagules per lb
Gigaspora brasilianum………..….…………1,135 propagules per lb
Gigaspora monosporum………….…………1,135 propagules per lb
Trichoderma:
Trichoderma harzianum……….….150 million propagules per lb
Trichoderma konigii………..……….150 million propagules per lb
CONTAINS NON PLANT FOOD INGREDIENTS:
9.5% Humic acids (derived from Leonardite)
5% Alaskan humus, 5% worm castings
3% glucose
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
Nice recipe. Do you think it would it work to use Humboldt nutrients Myco madness instead? It already contains the Humus but it also contains bacteria. Would the bacteria breed faster then the fungi? Here are the ingredients in the myco madness which is a soluble powder.

Guaranteed Analysis

Bacteria:
Bacillus licheniformis………………….……….…372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus azotoformans……………..…….………372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus megaterium.…………..…..……..….….372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus coagulans,…….…………………………372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus pumilis…………..…….………………….372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus thuringiensis…………..………………….372 million cfu/lb
Bacillus stearothermiphillis…….………………….372 million cfu/lb
Paenibacillus polymyxa….…………..…………….372 million cfu/lb
Paenibacillus durum…………………..…………….372 million cfu/lb
Paenibacillus florescence..………….………..….372 million cfu/lb
Paenibacillus gordonae…..………….…………….372 million cfu/lb
Azotobacter polymxa………………….………..….372 million cfu/lb
Azotobacter chroococcum……………………..….372 million cfu/lb
Sacchromyces cervisiae………………………..….372 million cfu/lb
Pseudomonas aureofaceans…………………..….372 million cfu/lb
Mycorrhiza:
Endomycorrhizal/cc

Glomus intraradices……………….……..…1,135 propagules per lb
Glomas mosseae……………………………1,135 propagules per lb
Glomas aggregatum………………………..1,135 propagules per lb
Glomus entunicatum……………..…………1,135 propagules per lb
Glomus clarum………………….………..….1,135 propagules per lb
Glomus deserticola….………………………1,135 propagules per lb
Gigaspora margarita………..………………1,135 propagules per lb
Gigaspora brasilianum………..….…………1,135 propagules per lb
Gigaspora monosporum………….…………1,135 propagules per lb
Trichoderma:
Trichoderma harzianum……….….150 million propagules per lb
Trichoderma konigii………..……….150 million propagules per lb
CONTAINS NON PLANT FOOD INGREDIENTS:
9.5% Humic acids (derived from Leonardite)
5% Alaskan humus, 5% worm castings
3% glucose
Of course you can use Myco Madness.

I don't, but you can. I generally do not prefer Humboldnt Nutrients, as I tend to stay away from pretty much anything bottled.

I tend to stick to the recipe that I meticulously laid out there, and I have never used Myco madness. SO, of course you can use it, but I have no experience with it in this method and cannot comment on any type of its use.
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
"You can also place this into an AACT prior to bacterial innoculation of your AACT. Since bacteria multiplies much faster than fungus, throw this mass in the AACT a day prior to the other components (aside from molasses and more baby oatmeal) to give the fungus a head start."
 

Endur0xX

Well-Known Member
I have this starting on the top soil of one plant, I thought it was mold and that I should remove it?
 

Afka

Active Member
I'm pretty sure your substrate is colonized by something other than mycos.

You need a host plant. I've seen how Premier Tech (one of the first and biggest mycorhizal fungi manufacturers, they invented the process) does it. They use a colonized host plant (carrot lol) in a recipient which only allows rooting in one half. The half with the host quickly roots and colonizes with hyphae, which can pass through a micro-membrane allowing them to deposit propagules in the non-host side. Propagules are harvested and packaged, the media is fine perlite and vermiculite.



I just checked.... Great white has trichoderma.. along with other fungi. What kind of retard made that product?! Have your trichoderma eating your mycos... lol

If you want to brew some mycos yourself pick up Premier tech (Myke's) glomus intraradices (formerly glomus irregularis, renamed for marketing purposes :D) which is the most compatible and widespread mycorhizal fungi on the planet. And only contains one breed of fungi, with no predators or random bacteria.
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
First and foremost, a trichoderma and mycorrhizal relationship is both symbiotic and beneficial for not only both species, but the plant as well.

Second, mycorrhizal filaments can activate in properly amended organic soil for an initial and short period without the presence of a live, growing plant. A high-quality soil will have adequate amounts of both long-dead humus root exudates as well as recently senesced root exudates, both of which are catalysts for mycorrhizal spore germination.

It is true that trichoderma are voracious eaters, and will figuratively "bite the hand that helps feeds them" by way of eating the mycorrhizal network. It is also true that terichoderma are some of the most prevalent of fungi, and is typically found in almost all soils. In other words, trichoderma will be in your soil whether you amend with it or not.

However, actions of this type(tricho eating mycho) are merely based off attrition survival, and is a last resort. Kind of like everything else in nature...the will to survive is strong. If the trichoderma do not have a properly supported diet rich in carbohydrates(molasses is an example), and the soil has run out of energy, then the trichoderma will turn on the mycorrhizal as a will to survive.

This has never happened once in my garden.

I am aware of the method Premier Tech employs for mycorrhizal germination. I garden a little differently then a company of that sort, but their method does work.

My belief is to replicate nature as much as possible, and to assist it with my own organic methods I have learned through experience, friends and research. I believe that a properly amended organic soil, along with a thriving, benefiical and diverse soil food web is the most crucial of factors in organic gardening, and one that I will not compromise on.

I know your intention was not to rip my thread apart, but it is hard to think otherwise based on the content posted above.

I can only hope that you give the method above a shot before you say that I am basically completely wrong in my thread(by way of saying that the substrate is something other than mykos). You could grow a substrate, pan it out on a a slide and post the results here if you wanted to. If you don't have a microscope, I am sure a local library or school has one.

I ask you to do this because I have. And what I saw was the preliminary and intermediate stages of mycorrhizal fungi hyphal building their network. Albeit, squashed and smushed onto a slide, but hyphal either way.
 

hyphae

Member
A couple weeks ago I posted a neat little trick on breeding mychorrizal hyphae here on RIU. I taught myself this neat little trick a few years back now; I don't claim to be the 'inventor" of this technique(like some RIU members do here), but I did teach it to myself, and it works.

Since the post, I have received numerous questions, messages and responses about this technique. I figured it may be beneficial to the community to see this information on it's own thread. I hope you enjoy it.

Though I do not have any personal pictures readily available, I do plan on snapping a few from my next batch as this thread picks up. I just never figured of taking pictures of fungal masses, but my, how things do change:)


Snafu's Mychorrizae Propagation Technique
-Transplanting, Top-Dressing, AACTs-

1. Invest in a well-reviewed Mychorrizae product. I am currently using Great White, although I used other Mycorrhizae before Great White came out. Just make sure its endomycorrhizl, and not ecto. Ectomychorrizae is for trees.

2. Buy powdered baby oatmeal.

3. Buy a germination heat mat with temperature gauge.

3. Take some organic soil, about a teaspoon, mix it with a tablespoon of alaskan humus(more woody branches/chips the better) and put it in a light-proof coffee can.. Then, dump about 5 TBSP of powdered baby oatmeal into that mix. If you have some azomite, or GO Rare Earth, throw a tsp of that in too. Then, dump in less than a pinch of Mycorrhizae...the less the better. Just make sure you get something. Honestly, I just take the cap of the Great White and tap the DUST over the can and that is more than sufficient.

4. Get some de-chlorinated water and pour some in the can, making the solution damp but not soaking wet.

5. Put a dark or light-proof top on the can, and poke one pen-tip sized hole in the center of the top of the can(to release gases and condensation).

6. Place on top of germination heat mat at 75-80. I keep mine at 76.

7. Leave on heated mat in a decently-ventilated darker room (you do not want a stale-air room) for 2-5 days. The breeding time can vary, depending on the amount of Mychorrizae used.

8. Make sure the solution in the can never gets soaking wet, or completely dry. Think of it like your germinating seeds. You want a happy medium of moisture and air.

9. Open the can. Not the best picture, but you will see something like this:

View attachment 1977992

10. Now, what you see here are tens of thousands of microscopic mychorrizal fungi hyphal(small fungus strands) that are actively consuming the energy sources you provided in the can. This white mass is a bunch of interwoven/interlocking and dissecting strands that create a massive symbiotic network with a host plant's root system.

11. Innoculate. Then water top soil if top-dressing.

Place this at the base of the hole when transplanting clones, seedlings, up-potting, whatever. Or, place this mass as a top-dressing to your current soil container.

If top dressing, YOU MUST COVER THE HYPHAL LAYER WITH MROE ORGANIC SOIL ON TOP. Mycorrihae breeds in dark environments, and direct exposure to the elements will kill the delicate hyphal network.

You can also place this into an AACT prior to bacterial innoculation of your AACT. Since bacteria multiplies much faster than fungus, throw this mass in the AACT a day prior to the other components (aside from molasses and more baby oatmeal) to give the fungus a head start.

12. Rinse, wash, repeat. Never buy mychorrizae again. Just keep breeding Myko Cakes to continue the process.

View attachment 1978045
View attachment 1978041
Underneath the soil layer, it should look something like this, with multiple mycorrhizal pockets already developing from natural formation. We just speed up the process.
Nice job man!!

I do the same thing with worm castings and oatmeal to encourage fungal growth aready present in the castings. This technique is outlined in "Teaming with Microbes" However I don't add a microbial innoculant until I am brewing the AACT as the mycorrhizae does not survive without contact to the roots of the host plant.
 

hyphae

Member
I'm pretty sure your substrate is colonized by something other than mycos.

You need a host plant. I've seen how Premier Tech (one of the first and biggest mycorhizal fungi manufacturers, they invented the process) does it. They use a colonized host plant (carrot lol) in a recipient which only allows rooting in one half. The half with the host quickly roots and colonizes with hyphae, which can pass through a micro-membrane allowing them to deposit propagules in the non-host side. Propagules are harvested and packaged, the media is fine perlite and vermiculite.



I just checked.... Great white has trichoderma.. along with other fungi. What kind of retard made that product?! Have your trichoderma eating your mycos... lol

If you want to brew some mycos yourself pick up Premier tech (Myke's) glomus intraradices (formerly glomus irregularis, renamed for marketing purposes :D) which is the most compatible and widespread mycorhizal fungi on the planet. And only contains one breed of fungi, with no predators or random bacteria.
They probably included trichoderma in the product because it will probably encourage/force the mycorrhizae to grow more vigorously through predation thus enhancing the rhizosphere and overall health of the plant. Think of the root zone as an ecosystem like a coral reef or rain forest for instance, the greater the biodiversity of species found there, the healthier the entire environment is.
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
Nice job man!!

I do the same thing with worm castings and oatmeal to encourage fungal growth aready present in the castings. This technique is outlined in "Teaming with Microbes" However I don't add a microbial innoculant until I am brewing the AACT as the mycorrhizae does not survive without contact to the roots of the host plant.
Awesome! Nice to hear of someone doing this as well!

Yeah, a few years back I kind of flubbed upon this technique. I was actually experimenting with my soil base, providing different carbohydrates for the microherd. I stumbled upon bay oatmeal one night when I was visiting a friend of mine, who had recently had his first child. I noticed there was a thing of baby oatmeal lying around, so I asked him about it and he said it was a great carbohydrate source for young children after the "baby phase" or whatever(im not a dad so i dont know any of these terms).

A lightbulb popped.

I figured, this might be a good thing for amending my soil with! Figured it couldnt hurt, so I tried it.

I didn't acquire the results I was looking for, or so I thought. You see, back then I was kind of a sloppy gardener (I consider myself a very clean and tidy gardener now:). When I was mixing up the soil, mychorrizae and baby oatmeal, I must've got some on a germination chamber/heatmat of some sprouts I was working on at the time. I came back a day or two later to check on the sprouts(unbeknownst at that moment that I got soil all over the sprouts/chamber), and saw a white fungal mass...growing quite happily where the sprouts were supposed to be:).

The rest is history....I saw what had happened and knew that I was on to something. I tweaked it over time, and that's the recipe above. I work with a greenhouse of flowers and garden shrubs and such on the side and I have only had great results. Plus, its free for the greenhouse so it is a win-win profitable venture for them to grow awesome flowers.

Best part about this? I picked up Teaming with Microbes about a year ago....and much to my delight I also saw a neat way that they do it......and the coolest thing is they actually recommend baby oatmeal over molasses as well(pot growers are SO stuck on molasses for everything for the microherd).

So, now when anyone doubts my trick, I tell them one of two things: TO either try it themselves and then thank me later. Or I tell them to read all about the (basically) same technique of propagating mycorrhizal hyphae in Teaming with microbes. Either one shuts them up. I can't stand growers who think they know everything, but they're really just some little white-boy gangsta-wannabe growing out of his closet in his mom's house, calling his hydro the best shit in the world.

Yikes. I'm glad I know nothing.
 

Snafu1236

Well-Known Member
You must be a sensitive guy.
No, I just think misinformation is a principle here on RIU, and I will rip apart anyone's wrong information if they convey it to me as fact.

So, instead of passing judgement on myself, how about you know your role and attempt to help the community instead of flaming posts and otherwise not contributing to RIU.


Yeaaaa buddy, youre a real gem.
 

inhaleindica

Well-Known Member
A couple weeks ago I posted a neat little trick on breeding mychorrizal hyphae here on RIU. I taught myself this neat little trick a few years back now; I don't claim to be the 'inventor" of this technique(like some RIU members do here), but I did teach it to myself, and it works.

Since the post, I have received numerous questions, messages and responses about this technique. I figured it may be beneficial to the community to see this information on it's own thread. I hope you enjoy it.

Though I do not have any personal pictures readily available, I do plan on snapping a few from my next batch as this thread picks up. I just never figured of taking pictures of fungal masses, but my, how things do change:)


Snafu's Mychorrizae Propagation Technique
-Transplanting, Top-Dressing, AACTs-

1. Invest in a well-reviewed Mychorrizae product. I am currently using Great White, although I used other Mycorrhizae before Great White came out. Just make sure its endomycorrhizl, and not ecto. Ectomychorrizae is for trees.

2. Buy powdered baby oatmeal.

3. Buy a germination heat mat with temperature gauge.

3. Take some organic soil, about a teaspoon, mix it with a tablespoon of alaskan humus(more woody branches/chips the better) and put it in a light-proof coffee can.. Then, dump about 5 TBSP of powdered baby oatmeal into that mix. If you have some azomite, or GO Rare Earth, throw a tsp of that in too. Then, dump in less than a pinch of Mycorrhizae...the less the better. Just make sure you get something. Honestly, I just take the cap of the Great White and tap the DUST over the can and that is more than sufficient.

4. Get some de-chlorinated water and pour some in the can, making the solution damp but not soaking wet.

5. Put a dark or light-proof top on the can, and poke one pen-tip sized hole in the center of the top of the can(to release gases and condensation).

6. Place on top of germination heat mat at 75-80. I keep mine at 76.

7. Leave on heated mat in a decently-ventilated darker room (you do not want a stale-air room) for 2-5 days. The breeding time can vary, depending on the amount of Mychorrizae used.

8. Make sure the solution in the can never gets soaking wet, or completely dry. Think of it like your germinating seeds. You want a happy medium of moisture and air.

9. Open the can. Not the best picture, but you will see something like this:

View attachment 1977992

10. Now, what you see here are tens of thousands of microscopic mychorrizal fungi hyphal(small fungus strands) that are actively consuming the energy sources you provided in the can. This white mass is a bunch of interwoven/interlocking and dissecting strands that create a massive symbiotic network with a host plant's root system.

11. Innoculate. Then water top soil if top-dressing.

Place this at the base of the hole when transplanting clones, seedlings, up-potting, whatever. Or, place this mass as a top-dressing to your current soil container.

If top dressing, YOU MUST COVER THE HYPHAL LAYER WITH MROE ORGANIC SOIL ON TOP. Mycorrihae breeds in dark environments, and direct exposure to the elements will kill the delicate hyphal network.

You can also place this into an AACT prior to bacterial innoculation of your AACT. Since bacteria multiplies much faster than fungus, throw this mass in the AACT a day prior to the other components (aside from molasses and more baby oatmeal) to give the fungus a head start.

12. Rinse, wash, repeat. Never buy mychorrizae again. Just keep breeding Myko Cakes to continue the process.

View attachment 1978045
View attachment 1978041
Underneath the soil layer, it should look something like this, with multiple mycorrhizal pockets already developing from natural formation. We just speed up the process.

How does one keep breeding the myko cakes? Do I just leave a little of the cakes in and add some more soil and baby oatmeal to the mix and allow them to grow in a few days then put them in the bottom of the trasplant hole and repeat the process? What are your thoughts on xtreme gardening Mykos?
 

C.Indica

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to grow a host plant and innoculate,
and cut portions of rootball to breed/transplant with?
Would the network be able to "switch over" to the new host without dying?
 
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