So Called "Master Seed Breeders" Who Am Merely Combine Others Strains

skunkd0c

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
They certainly could all be keepers but there will always be slight phenotype variation in stable strains and there will always be a 'best pheno' according to one's preferences. The key word when talking about 'stable strains' is uniformity. You're not guaranteed uniformity when buying seeds from a pollen-chucker.
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most strains are not uniform if they are simply f1 crosses
i notice how so many breeders today have maybe only 1 or 2 males that they cross with every other female they find
this is their attempt at creating uniformity or true breeding by using what they call a tested or proven/gifted male
crossing these select males with all the females they personally like or can get their hands on , then hopping for the best among the offspring f1s.. they may grow out 30-50 offspring if they see some good traits they will release the new strain no further selection or crossing is done .. so many strains for sale today are simply first generation crosses like this
the advantage is f1s have more vigor but they have more diversity than subsequent crosses

phenotype diversity is not something that is always a bad trait though
many haze crosses show a wide range of phenotypes
if you want uniform plants there are very few strains i have grown that are truly uniform from seed, other than s1s
look for s1 fems if you want uniformity in seed
i think the most uniform strain i have ever seen is northern lights lol
cubing and back crosses can be uniform too along with true IBL's

still i think it is wrong to judge success only by uniformity as this is not always the goal
look at many of the haze crosses from shanti/ mr nice you will see that personal phenotype selection by the grower is recommended for many of the strains there, as they were never breed to be uniform in the first place

peace :)
 
gimmenobammerweed

gimmenobammerweed

Well-Known Member
ubermench said:
i did look it up and it looked suspitiously alot like urkle.i'm trying g13's purple haze,so far its a vigorious plant,that clones well .but i've yet to smoke it and its not yet turning purple about 3wks into bud.i bought a single fem seed and got very lucky.i plan to breed it to mandala no.1 and to the purple urkle/bgum the 2 males currently available.i'm also breeding blueberrygum(g13) to urklegum i've got great hopes for both breedings!
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the nightshade is nothing like urkle. it tastes like vanilla berry hazlenut and grows more like a sativa. i saw some at the green door in the city and they were calling it pink platinum champagne.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Don't know about Mandala, have never personally monitored their activities.

Bottom line is you're all buying knock offs of knock offs and the better the ad's pictures and more polished the hype and marketing, the more you'll buy.

It's a racket, always has been.
 
MixedMelodyMindBender

MixedMelodyMindBender

Active Member
skunkd0c said:
most strains are not uniform if they are simply f1 crosses
i notice how so many breeders today have maybe only 1 or 2 males that they cross with every other female they find
this is their attempt at creating uniformity or true breeding by using what they call a tested or proven/gifted male
crossing these select males with all the females they personally like or can get their hands on , then hopping for the best among the offspring f1s.. they may grow out 30-50 offspring if they see some good traits they will release the new strain no further selection or crossing is done .. so many strains for sale today are simply first generation crosses like this
the advantage is f1s have more vigor but they have more diversity than subsequent crosses

phenotype diversity is not something that is always a bad trait though
many haze crosses show a wide range of phenotypes
if you want uniform plants there are very few strains i have grown that are truly uniform from seed, other than s1s
look for s1 fems if you want uniformity in seed
i think the most uniform strain i have ever seen is northern lights lol
cubing and back crosses can be uniform too along with true IBL's

still i think it is wrong to judge success only by uniformity as this is not always the goal
look at many of the haze crosses from shanti/ mr nice you will see that personal phenotype selection by the grower is recommended for many of the strains there, as they were never breed to be uniform in the first place

peace :)
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Great post doc. I think there are as many agenda's to breeding/crossing as there is varieties. I don't see it as a bad thing at all.

Amazing to see just how technical we can be, in such a unregulated industry. Should make for a easy transition if we ever have a "officially" regulated industry.
 
F

fresh2

Member
trying out the rishi kush next.
Mandala seeds are good. Not as stable as I expected but found some keepers with Kalichakra, I must say however, I am not so sure how original these genetics are, since everyone just writes what they want. I'm actually sick and tired of the so called major master breeder who plagiarizes all of his articles he publishes for benefit in all kinds of magazines. That's not so nice, he know's who he is!
 
B

Blaze23

Well-Known Member
FilthyFletch said:
Theowl..Not so..When humans have kids not evey kid is the same but certain traits show in each one. The breeders will take 1000 seeds from a plant that shows big heavy buds then maybe they have one that has a smell they want. They will cross those take the babies and find the ones that carry a perfect mix of both. Then they cull out mayb 10 plants and breed them. Now some will be what is wanted some will have a variation known as a pheno type. Now they will take the ones exactly how they like and pollenate that or feminize it and then verify the seeds keep the trait. You will get some variations but eventually you get a plant that replicates its genes regularly and you have a stable strain...You do get an issue with some guys just pollanating another plant putting it out not refined and muddying the gene pool with genetic mutations. The larger breeders take advantage of other breeders best finds as the work is half done and they create their own variation or crosses from those. Its pretty complicated. I make my own fem seeds from strains I buy and that alone is a bit of work.
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You should make a thread, following the breeding process, im interested in learning and creating something of my own.
 
Rhyzome

Rhyzome

Member
skunkd0c said:
i am not sure why you focus on mandala, who really are nothing more than "new kids on the block"
you should really of mentioned neville and shantibaba who between them are responsible
for more of the original genetics that is still used today in 100s of crosses than any other breeders
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I think it's because they are the "new kids on the block", that they're the focus here. Neville and Shantibaba are legendary, but you also pay legendary prices for their seed. Mandala are truly unique because they hunt down their own landrace genetics, which they know how to breed well, *and* they sell their award winning varieties for a reasonable price. It's not only their breeding I admire, but it's their business ethics as well.
 
shagalicious

shagalicious

Active Member
i'm no breeder, but it's been my experience that you don't even see what you've got till you grow out at LEAST f2s
stop me when i'm just fucking stupid
f1 cross = dominant alleles more or less
f2 pollination - most plants look a lot the same regardless of the genetic combinations, because only the dominant alleles present at this point
f3 selection - lots of recessive combinations present here - largest variation at this point - true selection begins - several different phenos could be seperately pursued from here
f4 selection - assuming you've used similar selectiuon criteria throughout, you should see less variation here and have an easier time selecting parents
f5 - test and sell/scrap

at f5 test - if you don't have some homogeneity by now, try a new project

if there is no homogeneity in my f2s of your seeds, you have not "bred" anything BY DEFINITION


 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
shagalicious said:
i'm no breeder, but it's been my experience that you don't even see what you've got till you grow out at LEAST f2s
stop me when i'm just fucking stupid
f1 cross = dominant alleles more or less
f2 pollination - most plants look a lot the same regardless of the genetic combinations, because only the dominant alleles present at this point
f3 selection - lots of recessive combinations present here - largest variation at this point - true selection begins - several different phenos could be seperately pursued from here
f4 selection - assuming you've used similar selectiuon criteria throughout, you should see less variation here and have an easier time selecting parents
f5 - test and sell/scrap

at f5 test - if you don't have some homogeneity by now, try a new project

if there is no homogeneity in my f2s of your seeds, you have not "bred" anything BY DEFINITION
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DJ short says that the F2 generation produces the most variation. I think he's also talking about working with stable (non-hybrid) parents though.
 
shagalicious

shagalicious

Active Member
homebrewer said:
DJ short says that the F2 generation produces the most variation. I think he's also talking about working with stable (non-hybrid) parents though.
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it's awkwardly stated
i agree with dj - i'm sure he;ll be relieved lol :)
the f3 seed selection would be made from the f2 plaants - i'm stoned and worded it poorly
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Rhyzome said:
I think it's because they are the "new kids on the block", that they're the focus here. Neville and Shantibaba are legendary, but you also pay legendary prices for their seed. Mandala are truly unique because they hunt down their own landrace genetics, which they know how to breed well, *and* they sell their award winning varieties for a reasonable price. It's not only their breeding I admire, but it's their business ethics as well.
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^^^^^^Word^^^^^^ +rep

I like the whole deal with Mandala's. They remind me of Neville back in the SSSC days.

Wet
 
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