So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

Well right now I'm moving so I'm not personally doing anything... except moving. Which sucks.

I think I got this thread title confused with a different thread a ways back and have not read through it. It's only 81 pages!!! I have the time to be honest
and look forward to it. Thanks for your time on it Rrog. I have been seeing more and more of you 95+% organic guy's kill it.

My friend's first grow. He's using the recipe. Also the LED panel I made. He has a med card.

I tried my mix at 30 days on a well rooted clone. It was still too hot. Its been about 45 now and im ready to try again. I prolly f****** up the mix tho or didnt turn it enough.

The mix can be hot. My friends grow (above) had some hot soil issues initially also. For seed sprouting, I still like a little Espoma Seed Starter. It is clean and microbially active and a nice consistency for the new seed. I just dig a hole in the center of the pot and fill with pre-moistened starter. Nothing fancy. Works great.

What a great thread.

Rrog, thank you for all of the info that you share. I have to credit you as one of the main culprits in turning me on to ROLS.

Well, thanks Stow-

st0wandgrow said:

What a great thread.

Rrog, thank you for all of the info that you share. I have to credit you as one of the main culprits in turning me on to ROLS.

Click to expand...

I second that.

You make an excellent point about all the great info in this thread. Thats why I'm puttin her back on page one where she belongs.....Bump.

I have a buddy with a med card growing for the first time with this soil. Under a 300W LED I built for him. Here's 18 days after flipping:

View attachment 2733766

View attachment 2733767

4 weeks after flipping:

40 days after flipping. DIY 300W LED, great soil in geopots. His first grow of anything.

NL#5 x Neville's Haze Swami Seeds

O-rrog-anic! ....you have reached 'lumperdawg' status

--Buddha--

--sen say--


so i havent commented in the growing lately....
your friends 'little' closet looks like its rockin!

yes the benefits and simplicity of simple water and good amendments
....brings out the flavors in the vegetables all the way!

--i noticed your last 'recipe' post .....in another thread? --which?
-post it again?

looked like you switched out the 'poos' and substituted 'fish' .....
did you try the substitution on your veggies?

i like that type recipe much better for organic and think the fish adds a little more goodness than the bird/bat poos..

do you like it better and thinks its a better way to go?

do you think your plants are 'greener' ...?....waxier...with fish?

just wondering buddha as i thought you had 'poos' in your original mix at the beginning of this thread
...havent went back thru tho-
i remember talking this-

and your last recipe post looked very good and i meant to comment....

do you 'top' dress any bird-bat ?
or just the 'plant' teas...?

yeah im sold on fish meals and fish products for the mix...when available-

-decimated seawed ($$$$$) all the way thru-
-some kelp mayb

-bokash to break it all down fast and grow some nice mycillium strands
-ill add a capful of good organic humic w each watering till the middle


you can make a good fish tea but--
-- that is some foul shit!!
--fermented fish

i saw kelp too-you can make a tea bag for that...

i think some lobster meal and mayb a little crabmeal and some oyster shell and you got somthin there with a nice ocean goodness going to bring out the best

also a bit of glacial rock dust --
lava/pumice/clays and some minerals and you are good to go!

i have found one called 'ironite' @home depot...organic....all the micros-

-sprinkle with nice powdered AG lime....
-some alfalfa meal?

-cook for a few weeks(?)......
-throw all your egg shells and coffee grounds in there for a month..
-burn you bannana peels and throw those in there

-add some nice yummy clean filtered good water.....

finish with a little potash from your woodburner...just a little!
and water till done....hehe

your mix looked like a well balanced meal for the whole cycle but....
--anything else in the middle or finish?

throw ur red wigglers in ther too?
if i was a worm(i am) i would love to feast on that

heres a nice little article full of goodies......

peace-O-rrog-anic

[h=4]Macronutrients[/h]The nutrients Cannabis uses in the largest quantities are called macronutrients. They are nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium and sulfur. Fertilizers list the NPK values for the first three macronutrients.
The first of the three numbers indicates the percentage of nitrogen. Ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) has an NPK rating of 34-0-0. Therefore 34% of the weight of the fertilizer is nitrogen, and 66% of the weight of the fertilizer is something else.
The second number is the amount of phosphorus by weight as if the phosphorus was expressed as phosphorus pentoxide (P2O5). This is true even if the phosphorus is in another form. Phosphate Rock with an NPK rating of 0-30-0 indicates that it contains sufficient phosphorous to create enough phosphorus pentoxide (P2O5) to equal 30% of the total weight.
The third number is potassium content by weight as if the potassium was expressed as potassium oxide (K2O). An NPK rating of 0-0-60 for potassium chloride denotes a potassium content equal to 60% potassium oxide.
NPK ratings are proportions, so a fertilizer with an NPK rating of 2-1-2 has the same relative proportion as a fertilizer made from the same ingredients at 4-2-4. The difference would only be in the percentage of fillers or in the concentration.
[h=4]Nitrogen (N): Very mobile[/h]

Nitrogen, macronutrient: important for growth

In Cannabis gardens, nitrogen deficiency is the most common nutrient deficiency. Nitrogen is important for the proper development of chlorophyll (the green in leaves) used in photosynthesis. Nitrogen compounds comprise from 40 to 50% of the dry matter of plant cells. It promotes large healthy foliage, absorption by roots, and proper plant development, and is used in chlorophyll, amino acids, proteins, and nucleic acids. Trees and shrubs absorb nitrogen directly from ammonium (NH4+) well, but Cannabis and vegetables respond better to nitrogen further processed by bacteria into nitrate (NO3&#8254.

“In Cannabis gardens, nitrogen deficiency is the most common nutrient deficiency„​

Nitrogen deficient leaves will contain relatively little chlorophyll, and will thus tend to be pale green or yellow in color; plants will have slowed growth. Nitrogen is very mobile in plants, and this enables them to readily move supplies where they are most required. Such transference is common from old growth to young growing tips when supplies are short. This mobility and re-utilization of nitrogen explains why deficiency symptoms appear first in the older parts of plants, working their way up to the grow tips. This same type of 'symptom-creep' from bottom to top is common to all mobile nutrients.
An overabundance of nitrogen can cause accelerated growth at the expense of structural strength. Too much available nitrogen can also inhibit flowering in some plants.
[h=4]Phosphorus (P): Very mobile[/h]

Phosphorous, macronutrient: important for flowering

Phosphorus is required for photosynthesis, blooming, and root development. Also used to form nucleic acid, an essential part of living cells. Compounds of phosphorus are used in respiration and the efficient use of nitrogen. Important throughout the life cycle of the plant, use is elevated during flowering.
Phosphorus deficiencies usually manifest as a generalized under-performance of the plant. Leaves may develop a bluish tint. Phosphorus assists in nitrogen uptake, so symptoms of phosphorus deficiency are often similar to a nitrogen deficiency.
An overdose of phosphorus may cause iron and zinc deficiencies.
animal manure (varies). My picks are bone meal (3-15-0) and rock phosphate (0-30-0).
[h=4]Potassium (K): Very mobile[/h]

Potassium, macronutrient: important for plant 'plumbing'

Potassium is important for photosynthesis, carbohydrate and protein creation, and disease resistance. Used in the 'plumbing' of the plant - liquid movement within the plant, stems, roots, etc. - many enzymic reactions require potassium, and it assists in silica uptake.
Potassium deficiency often shows as a yellowing/browning/dying of the leaf edges and/or curled over leaves, followed by yellowing spots in the interior of the leaf face. Discolored spots may appear on the undersides of leaves. Deficiency symptoms show first on lower leaves as flecking or mottling on the leaf margins. Prolonged deficiency results in cell death along the leaf margins and the plants can show signs of wilt. These symptoms first display in older leaves, and continue to work up through to the newer leaves if not corrected. Growth, root development, disease resistance and bud size are reduced.
Overdosing potassium can result in calcium- and magnesium deficiencies.
I like powdered kelp (1-0-4), compost (3-1-2) and greensand (0-0-3).



The remaining three macronutrients are calcium, sulfur, and magnesium.



[h=4]Calcium (Ca): Low mobility[/h]Used in making cell walls, and in some enzyme reactions, calcium provides a base for the neutralization of organic acids. It facilitates the activities of growing points (meristems), especially with root tips. It may be of importance in nitrogen absorption. Using 'hard' water may supply enough calcium to meet plant needs.
Calcium deficiencies can show as dying or dead tissue on new leaves. Leaves may curl under. Overdoses of potassium or nitrogen can cause calcium deficiencies - even if calcium is available. Over-watering can also interfere with calcium uptake. Absorption slows in cooler weather. Root diseases and nematodes may cause calcium deficiencies.
Overdoses of calcium may cause iron deficiencies.
Calcium is often added as calcium carbonate (12% Ca) or calcium nitrate (12-0-0 17% Ca).
[h=4]Sulfur (S): Very mobile[/h]Used in amino acid and enzyme production, deficiency symptoms consist of a general yellowing of the leaves. This appears similar to a nitrogen deficiency, but starting in the upper leaves, not the lower leaves (as with a nitrogen deficiency).
Cannabis can generally tolerate quite high concentrations of sulfur, and overdosing is uncommon. However, over-application can lock out molybdenum, and hinder beneficial microbial life.
Sulfur is commonly paired with another nutrient.. I prefer Epsom salts as it supplies both sulfur and magnesium in approximately correct proportions.
[h=4]Magnesium (Mg): Very mobile[/h]Magnesium is a key element in making chlorophyll and used in certain enzyme reactions. Magnesium also assists in phosphorous uptake and carbon fixation.
Deficiency symptoms consist of yellowing between veins, which can lead to dead patches in the affected areas, giving a mottled appearance. Signs of magnesium deficiency appear first on the oldest leaves and progress systematically toward the youngest leaves. Damage is similar in appearance to zinc- and chlorine deficiencies. Lack of magnesium can result in premature aging. Overdoses of calcium and potassium can block magnesium uptake.
Epsom salts, agricultural lime, and magnesium carbonate can all supply magnesium.
---------------------------------
disregard all the 'non' organic suggestionas and theres some good info here--simple


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[h=4]Micronutrient The last six nutrients - iron, manganese, boron, zinc, copper and molybdenum - are only used in very small amounts (and most in very, very small amounts).[/h]Iron, manganese, and boron are used in small doses. They are needed on the order of a hundredth as much as the macronutrients. Commercial micronutrient fertilizers often contain at least these three:
[h=4]Iron (Fe): Low mobility[/h]Iron is used to facilitate chlorophyll production and enzyme reactions. Iron chelates are soluble and aid in keeping iron in solution available for uptake.
Iron deficiency shows as upper leaf yellowing between the veins, which may progress to cell death of the affected leaves. New leaves come out bleached. Yellowing begins on the lower part of the leaflets. Iron deficiencies can look similar to a manganese deficiency. Overdoses of calcium, zinc, manganese, phosphorous and copper can lock up iron and cause a deficiency. Basic (pH above seven) conditions or over-watering can also lock out iron uptake.
[h=4]Manganese (Mn): Semi mobile[/h]Manganese is required for chlorophyll formation and enzyme reactions.
Manganese deficiency consists of yellowing between green veins, similar to a magnesium deficiency but appearing first on the upper leaves, and more mosaic looking. Yellowing may turn brown as the leaf dies. Basic (pH above seven) environments can lock out manganese uptake.
Toxicity appears as marginal leaf necrosis. Manganese may decrease the solubility of iron by oxidation, so an overdose of manganese may lead to iron deficiency.
[h=4]Boron (B): Low mobility[/h]Boron aids in the creation and stabilization of the cell walls in plant cells. It is required for root tip development and new growth. It can delay the onset of calcium deficiency, but is not a substitute for calcium. It tends to keep calcium soluble, and may assist in the absorption of nitrogen.
Boron deficiency affects the growing and root tips first. Leaf tips curl under, yellow, and die; growth may be stunted and bushy. High pH may lock up boron.
Glossy-looking leaves may be an indication of boron overdose.
Even smaller amounts of zinc, copper and molybdenum are needed. They are used in quantities down to a thousandth as much as the macronutrients. Organic matter or soil usually has sufficient quantities of micronutrients to fulfill the needs of plants, but in a highly sterile hydroponic environment they may need to be added to the system. Only trace amounts of these are needed. For example, water running through house pipes has been known to pick up enough copper to meet the needs of Cannabis.
[h=4]Zinc (Zn): Semi mobile[/h]Zinc is used to activate enzymic reactions and indoleacetic acid.
Young leaves show yellowing between the veins. Sometimes a zinc deficiency can lead to plants with shortened internodes. Zinc deficiency may occur in cold, wet soils, or in basic pH conditions.
Overdoses of zinc may cause copper and iron deficiencies.

Aside from building the initial soil, Rrog and his minions (ha!) use nothing but compost teas, coconut water, aloe juice, fulvic acid, sprouted barley enzyme tea, and some source of silica. That's it. Maybe a top dress of worm casting here and there. My plants are loving life following this recipe.

The only other important amendment that you didn't mention is neem seed meal. Key component. Other than that you've got it nailed down buckaroo!

My friend Coot - I am not worthy to carry his sandals. I'm just spreadin' the word. And it's a dirty 4 letter word.. S O I L

I use no guano, but local clean manure I'm all over. And Neem From http://www.neemresource.com/ is the real deal.

Base Soil

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat or Alaska Peat
1/3 Aeration material (pumice and lava rock)
1/3 EWC

Per Cubic Foot of the Base Soil:

3 cup Charcoal (activated)
4 cups Rock Powders (4X Glacial, 1X Bentonite, 1X Oyster Shell, 1X Basalt)

1/2 Cup Neem Meal (2 g / L)
1/2 Cup Crab Shell Meal
2 Cups Kelp Meal
2 Cups Fish Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
1 Cup Sul-Po-Mag
1/2 Cup Alfalfa

1/2 cup this 3 part lime mix:

1 part powdered dolomite lime
1 part agricultural gypsum
2 parts powdered oyster shell


1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons.

Moisten with Fresh Aloe (2 Tbs Juice with 1 gallon water) and Accelerant Tea (Comfrey, Yarrow, Horsetail or Nettle)

I pre-inoculate with BTI and Nematodes.

Seems like a long time ago.

So pounds of Yarrow? A great nutrient accumulator!

I'm into simple teas with a bubbler. Not into actual brewers.

buckaroo bonzai said:

'fulvic' feeds the soil....
and humic feeds the plant.....


what do you use for fulvic?

i like bokash to use for the soil....keeps it alive....always a big handful in each pot

i have always known humic is for uploading the N-
almost same in all plants

i always water neem into my soil too...a little bit

i do a couple sulphur pots 1-2 during a cycle too-
-prophylactically



have you introduced your worm colony into any buckets yet?
started raisng any rabbits yet?

i picked lbs of yarrow !....

i do some simple teas too-
dont have a brewer tho-

good that someone is spreading all this good organic love out to the masses here---'buddha'
-raising the vibration-

hard to watch all the people 'bottle' feeding their babies all the time
....so much more work-


Geez when i think back and Timmah tried to get you booted...lol
all the folks that would have missed out-

Click to expand...

http://bioag.com/

HGS in Livonia now carries bioags fulvic acid. It's called FulPower

And it's great stuff. Personally, I rely on the Humic and Fulvic acids in really good compost. Not a thing in the world wrong with adding as a supplement, it's just that I don't is all. That means nothing, just what I do.

Once again a reminder that if you want the best possible growth medium, you're mostly looking at VermiCompost... that YOU should make yourself! It's the best, it's the cheapest... It's completely natural.

http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/topic/vermicomposting/vermiculture/castings.html

Little link from Coot this AM. The Vermicompost is a huge component of the grow medium in addition to all of the nutrients and disease / pest suppression. Seed starting vigor.

Sign me up!!!

Base Soil

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat or Alaska Peat
1/3 Aeration material (pumice and lava rock) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Normal-Pellet-Pumice-Cactus-Love-It-13-Pounds-Flatrate-/310701340806?pt=Fertilizer_Soil_Amendments&hash=item48573e3886

1/3 EWC

Per Cubic Foot of the Base Soil:

3 cup Charcoal (activated) GET LOCALLY
4 cups Rock Powders (4X Glacial, 1X Bentonite, 1X Pyrophyllite Clay, 1X Basalt)

Glacial- http://www.gaiagreen.com/rockdust.html
Bentonite- http://www.groworganic.com/fertilizers/soil-amendments.html?p=6
Pyrophyllite - http://www.vitalityherbsandclay.com/farm-and-garden-products/silica-rich-pyro-clay-soil-amendment/view-all-products.html
Basalt- http://cascademineralsnw.com/consumer.html

1/2 Cup Neem Meal (2 g / L) http://www.neemresource.com
1/2 Cup Crab Shell Meal www.OrganicGrowers.com
2 Cups Kelp Meal www.OrganicGrowers.com
2 Cups Fish Meal http://www.amazon.com/Down-to-Earth-Fish-10-4-0/dp/B00AAFFELA/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1376583577&sr=8-6&keywords=down+to+earth+fish+meal

2 Cups Fish Bone Meal http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Earth-722-3-18-0-2-Pound/dp/B0047BIVOK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1376583406&sr=8-2&keywords=fish+meal

1 Cup Sul-Po-Mag http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Wisdom-Sul-Po-Mag-5-lb/dp/B003AZ2DM0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1376583762&sr=8-3&keywords=sulpomag

1/2 Cup Alfalfa GET LOCALLY

1/2 cup this 3 part lime mix:

1 part powdered dolomite lime http://www.sea-of-green.com/nutrient...mite-lime.html
1 part agricultural gypsum http://www.amazon.com/Espoma-Organic-Traditions-Garden-Gypsum/dp/B000KL5HVQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1376577131&sr=1-2&keywords=agricultural+gypsum
2 parts powdered oyster shell http://www.amazon.com/Pacific-Pearl-Oyster-Shell-Flour/sim/B007DL0AGI/2



1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons.

Moisten with Fresh Aloe (2 Tbs Juice with 1 gallon water) and Accelerant Tea (Comfrey, Yarrow, Horsetail or Nettle)

I pre-inoculate with BTI and Nematodes.

Let this rest for 4 weeks. GOOD OVERALL SOURCE TO CHECK OUT: http://www.groworganic.com/fertilizers/soil-amendments.html?p=6