So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Hey St0w.....what mix do you run?

VTM......I love the Banana Peel video.
I'm following Coot's food mix, mineral mix, fix it mix recipe. My base is 1/3 peat, 1/3 ewc, and 1/3 aeration. To that I add 2 cups of food mix per cf (alfalfa meal, soybean meal, flax seed meal, and cotton seed meal). I add 1 & 1/2 cups of fix-it mix per cf (kelp meal, crab shell meal, and neem seed meal). I add 1 cup per cf of mineral mix (greensand, garden gypsum, oyster shell meal, soft rock phosphate and basalt). I also add BTI granules and rock dusts. I wet everything down with an ACT, then I let it sit for 60 days before using. I'm just now re-using the soil in the containers. I'm going to try leaving the root ball in tact in the container per Rrogs advice. Simple-stupid.
 

GandalfdaGreen

Well-Known Member
You taught me the step to wet things down with the ACT. I have done it with all the mixes I have cooking. Thanks again for that step.

Do you or Rrog have links to some of Coot's info. I saw some of his posts over on IC but I don't go there much at all.
 

Mad Hamish

Well-Known Member
...I was expecting to go through this thread to find a lot of mistakes in my current soil cook, as I have mentioned to Gandalf or Myco before, can't quite remember, I am doing things the way my grandpa used to when he was alive. The old man really was super-jacked on this stuff. I am now learning he was a microbial gardener of NOTE.

So what I have done so far is: Got some good organic soil pre-mixed from a friend's farm, pretty fine stuff, nearly black. To this I added compost made out of horse poop and straw, it went through a year-long process and ended up as a yellowish almost powdery substance. I made some of grandpa's stinky fruit juice, pretty much just fruit pieces cut up and left in a bucket for a week or two, taking only the juice no pulp, and wetted down with this while mixing up and left for two weeks. Then came some serious aeration in the form of a very rough grade of Leca, I let it cool a bit and re-mixed it, this time using a 'tea' made from alfalfa and horse poop, the horse poop came off the bottom of a HUGE pile, it was already an orange sticky kinda texture, and smelled of mushrooms.

With both the first and second mixing generous amounts of fine dolomite lime were added, the way gramps mixed for his tomatoes, just over a teaspoon per litre which I think translates to a tablespoon per gallon roughly.
After the second mixing I left it to cook for another week, now totalling three weeks of prep at that point. This morning came the final mix, where I added some mushroom compost (just found it in the local agri store today actually), and a very cool product made out of earthworm castings and gypsum. A bit more Leca, and some perlite to keep it from compacting too much (I know now from reading this thread to use carbon instead, but I guess that will have to be the next mix).

For the last mix I wetted it down with a tea that was brewing for quite some time: I knew we were getting a lot of rain, so 2 weeks ago I left out a bucket with some rough alfalfa stalks and all, topped up with more horse-poop from the bottom of the pile. A few rains filled the bucket right to the rim almost, it was in a shady place outside for around 2 weeks and got a daily stir. It had a tiny bit of vermicompost (the juice) added along the way, and a tiny touch of fish emulsion also. It is not the most pleasant smell in the world I assure you LOL. Actually it's bit of a mission getting the smell out from under my nails, definitely gloves in future, I really enjoy mixing by hand.
I made up for the added solids with some more dolomite lime, also as per granpa's methods. Now it's in the final stretch of cooking, I will only need it in 3-4 weeks so I figure it is perfect timing.

I am a bit concerned that it might be pretty hot as the original soil I amended was quite decent, aside from being too fine for my liking. I am really liking the look of it now, and it has a mushroomy yet sweet smell to it, or at least it did before the wetting with horse-poop tea LOL. I am going to test it with some tomato seedlings and some reefer clones, if it doesn't burn 'em I know I am solid.

I wish I knew about the chitin before though. Shells are going to be a bit tricky for me to find. But that is the best way I have ever seen or heard of to deal with larvae (goooodbye fungus gnats).

My next step now is harvesting microbes as described in this thread. I have tons of BTi granules around so the soil mix is going to come out again tomorrow and have some of that mixed in too :)

I haven't had this much fun preparing for a run in many, many years. Awesome stuff, and really is excellent having this great big 'Organic Support Group' right here... Only halfway through this thread now. DL'd every .pdf that was linked. As I read the same info being repeated here and there across the organic threads, it really is starting to stick in my head now. Bloody marvellous. And I can't wait to apply the same principles on a large scale in my outside gardens, my veggies are going to LOVE me and my fruit-trees too!!!
 

GandalfdaGreen

Well-Known Member
That all sounds great Hamish. I hear you about the mix being hot. I am going to let the mix I threw together a month ago sit for as long as I can. I think you are one lucky guy to have a bunch of fresh materials to work with. The compost sounds like it has insane benes to lend.

I have a question about cooking the soil. If we are not to till the soil then why do people suggest mixing your cooking soil during the cooking period. My point is once the benes have been activated mixing breaks up the fungal hyphae, crushes the arthropods, destroys the soil structure, etc. To mix or not to mix during cooking? That is the question.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
That all sounds great Hamish. I hear you about the mix being hot. I am going to let the mix I threw together a month ago sit for as long as I can. I think you are one lucky guy to have a bunch of fresh materials to work with. The compost sounds like it has insane benes to lend.

I have a question about cooking the soil. If we are not to till the soil then why do people suggest mixing your cooking soil during the cooking period. My point is once the benes have been activated mixing breaks up the fungal hyphae, crushes the arthropods, destroys the soil structure, etc. To mix or not to mix during cooking? That is the question.
Aeration as I understand it. Similar to turning a compost pile, you are helping the aerobic bacteria out-compete the anaerobic bacteria in your medium. Once they are established, it's self regulated due to the large population of beneficials that you have helped to create.
 

Someacdude

Active Member
Ok so now i have
Worm castings
Blood meal
Bone meal
Dolemite
azomite
Two pkgs or peat moss
one potting soil organic
1 bag of perlite

Besides epsom salts what am i missing?

 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Ok so now i have
Worm castings
Blood meal
Bone meal
Dolemite
azomite
Two pkgs or peat moss
one potting soil organic
1 bag of perlite

Besides epsom salts what am i missing?

I posted this in another thread, and I'll throw it up here as well. When I made my first mix, breaking it down in to categories helped me figure out what I needed to add, and how much .....


This was the way it made the most sense for me:


  • Base:
    1 part- sphagum peat moss (you can find this at Home Depot. "Premier sphagum peat moss")
    1 part- compost/vermicompost (making your own is best)
    1 part aeration (pumice, lava rock, perlite, vermiculite, etc). Diversity is good. I even used some old hydroton that I had laying around from my hydro days.

    The amendments that are added to the base are broken down in to 3 category's.

    Food Mix
    Fix-it Mix
    Mineral Mix

    Food Mix:
    Add 2 cups of the following per cubic feet of base. Alfalafa meal, flax seed meal, bone meal, blood meal, fish meal, canola meal, soybean meal, cotton seed meal, etc. It should be pointed out that cottonseed meal is derived from one of the heaviest chemically treated crops so keep that in mind. Also blood meal and bone meal come from a pretty unethical industry, so depending on your idea of "organics", these items may not meet your criteria. Note: This is two cups per cf total of whatever you choose to use.... not two cups per cf of each ingredient. Again, diversity is good.

    Fix-it Mix:
    You will add 1.5 cups of the following per cubic feet of base. Kelp meal, Neem seed meal, Karanja seed meal, and crab shell meal and BTI granules (found at Home Depot). I feel that kelp meal, neem seed meal and crab shell meal are essential. Karanja seed meal can be used in place of neem seed meal if you can source it locally.

    Mineral Mix:
    You will add 1 cup of the following per cubic feet of base. Greensand, Azomite, soft rock phosphate, oyster shell powder, gypsum, and basalt.

    Rock dusts are added in addition to the above ingredients at 2-3 cups per cf of base.



 

Someacdude

Active Member
hey guys, ive got bushels of organic apples , can i juice them and use the pulp or dice them and add them to my mix or would it be to hot?
 

Mad Hamish

Well-Known Member
hey guys, ive got bushels of organic apples , can i juice them and use the pulp or dice them and add them to my mix or would it be to hot?
I've learned a little about the fruit teas/compost recently out of experience with it... I am going out on a limb here and saying it is INCREDIBLY 'active'. You should see what a teaspoon of it added to a gallon or two of manure 'tea' does... And it is INCREDIBLY acidic. I added around 20ml of stinky fruit juices to 3/4 gallons of water (you must excuse me for the strange measures, I work in metric over here) and that tiny amount managed to drop my water pH from 9.0 to 4.3. Yup. Not kidding.
I'd say fruit is best used (especially if it is a fruit-rot juice) as a kind of innoculant rather than a feed in itself.

One thing I am cautious for is viewing organics as 'mild'... Indeed, this is incredibly powerful stuff. Science brought us powerful things like the atom bomb and V8 engine, but nature gave us stuff like the sun and gravity ;)
 

Someacdude

Active Member
I've learned a little about the fruit teas/compost recently out of experience with it... I am going out on a limb here and saying it is INCREDIBLY 'active'. You should see what a teaspoon of it added to a gallon or two of manure 'tea' does... And it is INCREDIBLY acidic. I added around 20ml of stinky fruit juices to 3/4 gallons of water (you must excuse me for the strange measures, I work in metric over here) and that tiny amount managed to drop my water pH from 9.0 to 4.3. Yup. Not kidding.
I'd say fruit is best used (especially if it is a fruit-rot juice) as a kind of innoculant rather than a feed in itself.

One thing I am cautious for is viewing organics as 'mild'... Indeed, this is incredibly powerful stuff. Science brought us powerful things like the atom bomb and V8 engine, but nature gave us stuff like the sun and gravity ;)
Thanks again everybody for the help, i read i supposedly can use the pulp at any time? All i kow is im sipping some fresh apple juice , wondering what im going to do with the pulp.:o
Then i dawned on me, i have a 90 gallon compost container from the city i almost never use, since i never have grass clippings.
Guess who just got a free compost container??

Just diced up about a bushel and covered it with some peat, how many months before i can use it lol
 

Cory and trevor

Well-Known Member
vegetable garden question really quick if you don't mind, what's you choice (assuming you would use the stuff) for an organic safe pesticide for squash bugs? I tried soaking onion and crushed garlic with dish soap and it got some of the bastards but was not the death from above I was hoping for. the squash is dead and gone for this season but I'm looking to show them a little something before the season is over so they don't bed down in the soil and get me first thing next year. I till BTW I know there are two sides to that fence as well but I till-this should help me with squash bugs next year, right? Thanks, glad to see this thread still keeping steam and staying up high on the boards in MI
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Here's my arsenal for pests:

#1 Vermicompost. Fresh stuff will help protect both the soil and leaves.

#2 Neem Meal- Also good nutritionally when it decomposes, this is a great pest suppressant, especially in its whole form.

#3 BTI dunks Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis bacteria. Mosquito dunks. Any hardware store has mosquito dunks. These feed on larvae.

#4 Nematodes- These will travel around in search of larvae to infect and explode.

#5 Crab Shell- The shell contains chitin. This attracts bacteria that eat chitin, and these bacteria multiply like crazy. Larvae have jawbones made of chitin. Bacteria then eat the jawbones. Shell releases a lot of great minerals and Calcium also.

I would always use #1 in any soil. Even squash, if I could. #2 is the same thing, but you use less and it's more directed at the problem. #3 and #4 would be a good spring thing. #5 is another "always" thing.

The crab and Neem added now are going to make it very bad for the bugs larvae come next spring. Add the BTI in Spring since they're cheap. Nematodes SHOULD be cheap, but no one in MI is raising and selling them...
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Not needed. From the Coot Files:

RE: Neem or Karanja Oils

I can't find your original post so I'll do the whole recipe.

1 tablespoon of oil
2 teaspoons of Pro-TeKt

Stir that until the oil loses all clarity and color will change to ochre - at this point the oil is fully emulsified.

Add that to 1 gallon of tepid water (75 - 85F) and shake to get the emulsified oil completely dispersed. If you use cold water then the oil will coagulate which is not what you want.

Then add your surfactant - yucca extract, aloe vera, whatever. Shake the container again to kick-start the foaming action of the Saponins. You won't get too much with aloe vera (20,000 ppm) but it will help.

Spray at the end of the light cycle and start at the bottom of the plant and work to the top hitting every leaf, branch and stalk completely and totally until the leaves are hanging like it needs to be watered.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Nothing more than a creative spammer. This site has a real issue with spammers. Like a daily assault.
 
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