Soil other than oceanforest
- Thread starter backwoodsburner
- Start date
backwoodsburner
Active Member
thanks for all the useful posts and for all the ignorant posts, well you know what to do... (HINT: woodchipper+headfirst=sucess)
mistaphuck
Well-Known Member
na na na forget all that get promix with extra pearlite. with thos beneficial mycobacterium
backwoodsburner
Active Member
never heard of promix. ill look em up.
This is the BEST answer of them all.
Spanishfly
Well-Known Member
Really ?????
Spanishfly
Well-Known Member
Organic !!!!!
Spanishfly
Well-Known Member
AHH, but you do, of course.
Nullis
Moderator
But, you can still grow organically in coco coir and the coir itself might even be listed. Of course you could use any chemical/synthetic nutrients in any kind of soil (or other medium), whether it was 'organic' to begin with or otherwise.
The first problem here is that many people have kind of specious, or less than accurate notions as to what 'organic' actually means as pertains to agriculture and home gardening. The next problem is what we consider to be 'soil'. Actual soil consists partially of disintegrated rock and minerals (sand, silt, clay), as somebody previously mentioned. The basic organic component of soil is humus: decomposed/decomposing plant matter and animal wastes, the result of microbial activity and other living organisms breaking those materials down. The most basic, good quality earth provided by nature is referred to as loam.
The bagged potting soils that we buy for gardening purposes do not typically contain any soil or humus at all. They are composed entirely of other materials like sphagnum peat moss, coir, tree bark, perlite, vermiculite, etc.
Real soils begin with humus and loam, amended with other ingredients like sphagnum and perlite to enhance porosity and water retention characteristics.
For example, Ocean Forest is a real soil. It contains: humus, sandy loam, sphagnum peat moss and perlite. The other ingredients are organic fertilizers: earthworm castings, fish emulsion, shrimp & crab meal, bat guano, granite dust, kelp meal, and oyster shell (adjusts pH and a source of calcium). It fully supports beneficial bacteria, symbiotic fungi and other micro-organisms (some of which come from the earthworm castings) until any synthetic nutrients, chelating agents or pH Up is applied.
Compare this to Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting 'Mix': composted bark, sphagnum peat moss, poultry litter (pasteurized), organic wetting agent.
Most of the commonly available potting 'soils' are just sphagnum peat moss with perlite, dolomite limestone and synthetic fertilizers: urea, ammonium phosphate, monoammonium phosphate, potassium nitrate, potassium chloride, potassium sulfate, etc. Again, not really truly actually soil at all!
If you find a 'soil' (or whatever the hell it is) and you think it's pH is too high, it isn't very difficult to lower it. You could just add more sphagnum peat moss (which is acidic) without any dolomite lime or oyster shell (which would raise the pH some), or buy some soil acidifier or pH down.
The first problem here is that many people have kind of specious, or less than accurate notions as to what 'organic' actually means as pertains to agriculture and home gardening. The next problem is what we consider to be 'soil'. Actual soil consists partially of disintegrated rock and minerals (sand, silt, clay), as somebody previously mentioned. The basic organic component of soil is humus: decomposed/decomposing plant matter and animal wastes, the result of microbial activity and other living organisms breaking those materials down. The most basic, good quality earth provided by nature is referred to as loam.
The bagged potting soils that we buy for gardening purposes do not typically contain any soil or humus at all. They are composed entirely of other materials like sphagnum peat moss, coir, tree bark, perlite, vermiculite, etc.
Real soils begin with humus and loam, amended with other ingredients like sphagnum and perlite to enhance porosity and water retention characteristics.
For example, Ocean Forest is a real soil. It contains: humus, sandy loam, sphagnum peat moss and perlite. The other ingredients are organic fertilizers: earthworm castings, fish emulsion, shrimp & crab meal, bat guano, granite dust, kelp meal, and oyster shell (adjusts pH and a source of calcium). It fully supports beneficial bacteria, symbiotic fungi and other micro-organisms (some of which come from the earthworm castings) until any synthetic nutrients, chelating agents or pH Up is applied.
Compare this to Miracle Gro Organic Choice Potting 'Mix': composted bark, sphagnum peat moss, poultry litter (pasteurized), organic wetting agent.
Most of the commonly available potting 'soils' are just sphagnum peat moss with perlite, dolomite limestone and synthetic fertilizers: urea, ammonium phosphate, monoammonium phosphate, potassium nitrate, potassium chloride, potassium sulfate, etc. Again, not really truly actually soil at all!
If you find a 'soil' (or whatever the hell it is) and you think it's pH is too high, it isn't very difficult to lower it. You could just add more sphagnum peat moss (which is acidic) without any dolomite lime or oyster shell (which would raise the pH some), or buy some soil acidifier or pH down.
backwoodsburner
Active Member
yea i do i dont go around bashing peoples questions just because im bored. i came here to learn from the everyday grower. books make it seem very hi tech when infact marijuana is a weed. it will grow almost in spite of you.
heres a theory: clones are an exact match to there mother. so wouldent it be possable that the seeds that come from clones will only florish in the type of enviorment that the mother was grown in.
thats why im here to prove or disprove a theory. im not exactily startin from scratch...
heres a theory: clones are an exact match to there mother. so wouldent it be possable that the seeds that come from clones will only florish in the type of enviorment that the mother was grown in.
thats why im here to prove or disprove a theory. im not exactily startin from scratch...
sexbobomb
Member
Backwoods,
You started a thread and asked a question, and when you got answers you cried about it. The so-called bashers and people with no lives were simply responding to the fact that you said you didn't want anything organic (why anybody would go out of their way to avoid being organic simply mystifies me). Like somebody else said, it's impossible to grow 100% "unorganically" unless you want to use plastic shavings instead of soil. Maybe you should've clarified your question at the onset. Have a great day.
You started a thread and asked a question, and when you got answers you cried about it. The so-called bashers and people with no lives were simply responding to the fact that you said you didn't want anything organic (why anybody would go out of their way to avoid being organic simply mystifies me). Like somebody else said, it's impossible to grow 100% "unorganically" unless you want to use plastic shavings instead of soil. Maybe you should've clarified your question at the onset. Have a great day.
Nullis
Moderator
This is how I understand it. While a clone is genetically identical to the mother plant it came from, the seeds are not. Seeds are produced via pollination from a father, who could have genetics adapted to an entirely different environment. The characteristics of the offspring would vary; seeming to favor traits that embody one parent or the other, or anywhere in between. The offspring could also demonstrate hybrid vigor. Some of them might fare better in an environment more similar to that of the mother, or vice versa. Some of them might seem to fare well in just about any condition you throw at them, and those would be the real keepers.
But what exactly are you getting at, did some plants you want to grow have parents that were grown with synthetic fertilizers or something? If that was the case it isn't that significant that the offspring also be grown that way. There is much more to environmental conditions than the type of fertilizer being used.
But what exactly are you getting at, did some plants you want to grow have parents that were grown with synthetic fertilizers or something? If that was the case it isn't that significant that the offspring also be grown that way. There is much more to environmental conditions than the type of fertilizer being used.
backwoodsburner
Active Member
i want to use hydrogen peroxide and if i use it in organic soil it kills the plant everytime. im trying to see how benifical it is to roots. it delivers oxygen to them and provents rot and stimulates water intake.
mistaphuck
Well-Known Member
but kills your plant? how much were you using? i used it in organic soil before. you need 35 percent food grade first off and then a very small amount like a few drops per gallon.
backwoodsburner
Active Member
i use 5ml per gallon of the 3%.
mistaphuck
Well-Known Member
i think the 3 percent is for minor cuts abrasions etc. and may have harmful inactive ingredients. you must make sure it says food grade on it
backwoodsburner
Active Member
no i wiki'd it its 3% hydrogen peroxide and 97% purified water. the reason it kills it is because some organic soil has the bacteria that peroxide likes to kill. but sterilized soil does not so basicly bone/blood meal is a no go. some organic companys use dead animals and newspaper and paper grocery bags and peroxide reacts to that the problem is they dont advertise that theres road kill and trash in everybag.
Nullis
Moderator
Yah, that's what it is.
I seriously doubt the hydrogen peroxide is what killed your plant (especially if it was 3%). I myself have used hydrogen peroxide in my water, with soil like Happy Frog and Ocean Forest, before I really knew any better or was at all concerned with the other microbes that thrive in the soil. I don't recall any of those plants having died, although they might have been shocked at the loss of the symbiotic relationship.
There is no bacteria that peroxide particularly likes to kill. It just isn't that choosy, rather it will kill virtually any kind of bacteria, fungi, spores; even some of your skin cells. This is what limits its use in organics, where we really want the bacteria and fungi to help us and not be totally wiped out.
pointswest
Active Member
Sunshine #4 or Pro Mix is what you are looking for. Works right out of the bale with no amendments and 6 cu. ft. uncompressed costs about the same as 2 cu.ft. of FFOF. Sunshine is in the West and Pro Mix is in the East. Some nurseries will carry both.
Total Head
Well-Known Member
if what you really want is zero living matter in the soil why don't you just sterilize it? you can bake it in the oven and it will kill everything in it. this defeats the purpose of soil imo but if you are doing a certain experiment and feel sterile soil is the way to go you can do it.