SplifMcGee
Active Member
i am pretty sure that is what i have been saying the whole time...
soil ph problem
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SplifMcGee
Active Member
Your right, marijuana and grass are the same plant. also you are acting like all soil is the same. not all soils have the same buffering capacity.Also the plant can tell the difference because it cant uptake the organic nutrients. it takes a while. I am also curious as to how much yield you get with those tactics? I am not saying that you cant grow plants if you dont watch the ph and ppms. By keeping your ph and ppms in the right range you will get the best quality and yield.where in the hell did you learn this stuff ? the soil IS a buffer. do you put lime on your grass ? does it still grow ?
you kids are crazy ..... how about just asking questions or debateing without the "your wrong" bullshit ?
you are just barley breaking the iceburg with soil , you still have a LOT to learn.
so how does this happen if the soil cant buffer ? you should really read what your writing.
chems go in , the plant eats them....... organics go in , the microbes eat them an shit out chems. either way the plant gets the same chems. (exactly the same)
just because you can tell the difference in chems an organics does not automatically mean the plant can.
now go call the AN team an cross reference this info with theirs an see whats different........ i'll wait.......
an why do i need luck to test ppm of organics ? i dont need or care to know the ppm of my mix.
oh yea i need to mention this one too .... earthjuice mixed has a ph of 4.0-4.5 , how come my plant dont die or lock up ? i dont use ph up or down an i dont use lime either , so how is that possible ? ...... the magic dirt
whats wrong with fox farm ? thats a good food.
soil
skunkushybrid01
Well-Known Member
That's exactly why i don't need to use adjustment. GH nutes, especially the bloom for obvious reasons, work really welll to bring pH to within range. Not sure if i'm just lucky with my tap water, but i can use AN or GH with a pour and go method.
thousanaire
Active Member
hey so i have a question for you guys because i read all the threads n you guys have already taught me alot jus by reading these three pages, but what do i do if my plant isnt all green like his. Im Growing in soil and have alot of yellowing and a lil rusting on the lower leaves but it looks like nute burn on one or two of my plants and then looks like deficicanies on some of my other plants. Im using earth juice and bubbling it first but the ph is coming out like 7 or 8 after it comes out the soil. Jus wanted some advice n to say thanks for providing all the info i already read.
SplifMcGee
Active Member
dude, i would really recommend buy a spa filter for your tap or hose. it is about 40 bucks and it filters out the chlorines and some of the sediment from your water. even if your plants look great, they will look better without the chlorine killing your microbiology. they will be able to resist disease more effectivly and breakdown nutrients better as well.
SplifMcGee
Active Member
Are you in flower or veg? If veg i would flush, then add something high in nitrogen and trace minerals. If flower, sometimes with organic ntrients like EJ, there is not enough nitrogen at the bigining of flower so the plant uses up the nitrogen that is remaining from veg. the yellowing of the leaves could be lack of nitrogen.
skunkushybrid01
Well-Known Member
you don't need micro biology if you use synthetic nutrients IMO. because the nutes are always available and the plant can get as much as it wants when it wants... what is the point? I actually sell microbes so it is against my interests to tell people that. yes they do have certain benefits, pre-germination, and they can help you use less nutrients, but they don't super charge growth or anything as is often claimed. they can also prevent pathogens... but in hydro you really don't need them. chlorine is also an essential plant nutrient. i also leave my water out over night. i've been doing the same shit for years now, i'm cool with it, i have a good understanding on most things.
SplifMcGee
Active Member
For sure, as long as you leave it out over night. i have never heard that chlorine is an essential plant nutrient, can you tell me how. i am not trying to add sass to that. Curious, what microbes do u sell?
thousanaire
Active Member
I jus switched to flower two weeks ago yea im started to think there gonna be ok because its mostly all the lower growth thats yellowing up and im doing a scrog so the lower growth was gonna get trimmed neways. here i have a picture of what some of the leaves look like so u can see the problem although it is a lil harder to see in the
pictures
let me know what u guys think i could to help them out i dont want them to get locked up and not recieve the nutes they need to give me a nice beautiful heavy harvest.
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
at least your ready for a debate rather then an argument now.
im sorry for comin at you a lil rough at first but i cant hold myself back when folks just jump in an say someone is wrong, with no info to back it.First , i ll start by sayin that everything always works a lil different for each person, but all the "basics" remain the same. Also science changes every so often too as we all grow and learn more about plants and how they really work.
5 or 10 years ago the general public and most farmers thought their meters could read everything about their nute solutions , come to find out its nowhere near that simple when using organic matter to feed with.
Some folks can make the highest quality smoke from promix and GH , and some will tell you promix is the worst mix and GH couldnt grow grass. ...... you get the point.
You are right , soils are very different from place to place. A major difference sometimes. You said that soil cant "magically" change the ph of a solution , and i guess your right about the magic part , but yes it does work like magic , all soils are gonna buffer the ph to what it wants , not to what you want. i never said all dirt buffers to the "right" ph.
when you see me say "good dirt" then yes its all got the same good properties.
good water rentention
good airation
a good amount of biology
and lots of organic matter to feed the "biology".
If the mix dont have all those properties , then i wont call it a good soil , and thus you may need to add some things to make it a good soil.
most mixes use peat as a base and peat is not "soil" so you'll constantly have to add lime to keep the ph in check..... with a good soil you wont have to worry about that at all.
a good soil will hold a ph of around 6 to 7 but will range from 4 -8 in different times/areas of the container/garden and that is "perfect" for reefer. it gets most of its food in the 6ish area , but certain essential nutes are not available at 6 and it only gets them when the soil (or water) ranges from 4 to 8.
i am certainly not saying you need to fluctuate the ph that much on purpose , im just sayin a plant will do just fine in that range with the normal fluctuations that happen. (me usin earthjuice at 4.0 in good soil)
and just to say it again , a plant can not tell the difference between organic an synthetic. when the plants roots eat it , its all the same. when its still organic matter the plants roots dont even notice its there. so how could the plant possibly tell the difference ?
The whole soil food web , "organic" process you are talking about has almost nothing to do with the plant , and all to do with the dirt. so the soil can tell the difference in the two, bigtime , but the plant can not.
now i think were on the same page .....
soil
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
i have to agree as much as i hate to. (i love microbes!)
i do however suggest that the use of microbiology in hydro is understudied as much as the microbiology in dirt.
and your right , there is no super charging or miracle growth with microbes, it just adds more structure to the dirt. and with dirt its a lot better to use them then to not , no matter the source.
soil
skunkushybrid01
Well-Known Member
you can use micro biology in hydro, there's just no need to. hydro doesn't waste as much nutrients as soil does, so is more efficient anyway. just throw th enutes in and watch her grow.
chlorine is avery important plant nutrient, it's essential in all life. read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition
chlorine is avery important plant nutrient, it's essential in all life. read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_nutrition
SplifMcGee
Active Member
Ok, thats true. But i believe not in the amount that is found in your tap. For you, it wont be a prop cus your in hydro and you dont use microbes. But in soil or soil coco mixes the chlorine kills alot of the beneficial microbes. Have you done a side by side in hydro, with non-inoculated and inoculated plants?
skunkushybrid01
Well-Known Member
I do use microbes in my coco grows... chlorine starts to evaporate really quickly, leaving it out over night is enough to see most of it gone. The chlorine in tap water is not enough to kill fungal spores anyway even after just 20 minutes sitting out. yes it kills germs that are alive and other types of bacteria spores, but there are certain bacteri and fungi chlorine does not touch. for example, e.coli, botulism... if that's in your water chlorine has no effect on it. luckily for us, i we do drink e.coli or mycorrhizae even our stomach acids would kill it. most of the time anyway, e.coli has the potential to genetically change and can find the key to become a killer virus, as we see happening as I think 2 million US kids die from e.coli every year, and the problem is getting worse. It is very much in question anyway at chlorine's ability to kill fungal spores even at strong concentrations, let alone the minimal amounts found in tap water. even swimmin baths have germs in them and the chlorine in those places is often so thick you can taste it in the air. lots of germs still in our tap water, water moulds are the bane of many a hydro grower, even if they've never heard of them before. the chlorine isn't enough on it's own to kill all microbe spores, maybe at initial treatment, after that though that's when things start to recolonise the water.
In hydro you don't need myco because nutrients are there in abundance, they're not locking each other out, there is no seepage as the air bubbles keep the nutes mixed up nice, the roots don't need to search for nutes and there is very little evaporation, so all of the benefits relating to plant growth are nulled with hydro. In soil you need to feed harder because nutrients have a habit of disappearing. In farmlands only 1/3rd of the nutrients poured in are actually available to the plants, the rest lost through seepage, evaporation and lock out... mycorrhizae come in handy because they hold onto nutrients for the plant, releasing them as the plant needs them, the myco will also hold onto water, as well as extend out and actively search for nutrients to store for the plant. It becomes a part of the root system very much like the chlorophylls are a part of the leaves, a symbiotic relationship. perfect for soil and coco... not water though.
wyteboi
Well-Known Member
and another fact most folks dont pay attention to is that myco cant even grow and the spores will stay dormant when there is an abundance of food available , in soil or water. but most soils are not "perfect" and and the myco will do very good.
the chlorine seems legit , but i am very use to leaving it out anyway, i been runnin fish along with plants for decades so i always got plenty of chlorine free tap layin around. plus there is just way too much biology in my soil to risk it , it kills plenty of microbes and i dont have the time to figure out which ones.
that is very useful info on the chlorine though ...... the learning never stops
soil
skunkushybrid01
Well-Known Member
yeah lots of factors prevent myco from proliferating or multiplying... although they will still be there in high nute concentrations they won't breed as much because there is just no need for them, and without constant supplementation will probably die off anyway.