space selection, heating issues, possible workarounds, 3x3x7, lumatek 400/600/1000

hey guys,

so a friend of mine has a small utility closet in his backyard off the house. its 3x3x8. raw particle board all around. gonna put some panda or mylar on the walls. theres a few other options around the house, but in terms of privacy and convenience, this is it. its right next to the house as well. problem is, this is basically exposed to the elements outside with only the homes residual heat and the closed door offering it warmth and protection.. we are up on the long island sound where it gets mighty cold. he's amending the soil and letting it cook for 3 weeks while the seeds veg in silo cups with happy frog. ultimately going in 5 gallon smart pots. definitely don't want anything freezing. check out the ceiling pic - i imagine that insulation needs addressed if i'm going to have a ballast in there?

right now there's a hygrometer in there saying it's 72 degrees and 66% humidity.

he has this heated welcome mat he could put in there and run when the lights are off. was thinking maybe raise the cloth pots on some bricks so they don't get cooked, but it'll definitely put some heat in there. would have to make sure this doesn't get hot enough to catch the wood on fire though (already discolored some pergo flooring after two days, like if you put a hot pizza on a nice table): http://www.amazon.com/HeatTrak-HCM24-3-Carpeted-Snow-Melting-Door/dp/B001E5CUHG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380825672&sr=8-1&keywords=heated+welcome+mat

there will be heat from this guy - not sure if he should run 1000/600/400 on this. he could get that mh/hps hortilux super blue and just keep it higher up, keep the room hopefully toasty and full of light. maybe get a 400 and supplement with a small basic heater? he does plan on getting hortilux regardless....
http://www.amazon.com/Lumatek-Digital-Ballast-Cooled-LUMENS/dp/B007F3KSIY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380825723&sr=8-1&keywords=lumatek+400/600

Not sure if this hood is an issue or not either http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006OQTTS8/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

not sure if he's going to have to vent this or if he can keep it closed with a box fan/small fans... also have to take into consideration temp flux/time of day. smell is a secondary concern given the season and location.

general idea: he's basically amending the foxfarm ocean forest ahead of time with azonite/kelp/guano/tomato tome/greensand/lime/ewc, letting it cook for 3 weeks, vegging in silo cups with happy frog and letting them do their thing on 18/6 the duration, no added nutes except maybe some bud candy or cal-mag. thinking 5 to 6 fems. all short/medium autos. there's a dynachem, low ryder, white widow, 5 super skunk automatic.

the other picture is under the stairs, 3x7xdescending stairs, already has ducting through for the central air system as well as dryer - goes right through there to the outside. could be wrong, but is that ufo looking thing a fan? maybe he could tap into that. seems like a more controlled space heatwise. he'd use this spot possibly as well.


any insights are appreciated.

OK, I'm assuming that you have a bit of capitol to invest in this project. First you need to keep this bug and disease free or else it wont be worth the time money and effort. The grass/dirt stained floor will be a problem. I would recommend getting 2" Styrofoam insulation for the whole room - ceiling walls and floor. put Styrofoam on the floor from wall to wall and place some particle board on top of it and screw it down to the wood that was there from before. I would recommend putting linoleum over the top of the wood because its easy to clean and it will prevent water damage when you spill. Calk where the Styrofoam comes together with silicon on the walls and ceiling - do not use acrylic calk. This will stink as it drys so you'll have to let it air out for a day after application. If the door isn't an exterior metal door then replace it (roughly $120 from Menard's) and get magnetic weather stripping (about $15 at Menard's). The place will be almost air tight. You need to control heat. My favorite and the most "get it done quick way" is to get a ductless mini split ac unit. The compressor will sit outside the room and you can drill holes into the wall and feed the copper tubing into the room and attach it to the main unit and seal the holes with silicon or great stuff. The big benefit of the ductless minisplit is that there will be no air taken in from outside (no bugs or disease either) and the smell wont be a big problem. You will heat your primarily room with an HID bulb. You can keep the lights on 18 - 6 or you can leave them on for 24 hours if cold temperature is a problem. Somewhere down the line you will have to switch these to 12/12 so you'll have to factor that in. The Styrofoam is extremely effective at keeping the temperatures steady all the time. If you need more heat then I would suggest an electric heater if you can spare the amps but make sure to cover any non green light that they emit. I would suggest a dehumidifier. You can use a hood with a fan to pull cold air from outside and then pipe it straight outside again. The straighter the exhaust tube the more efficient the heat evacuation. You might consider a small veg room somewhere where you can separate the light from the HID used so the heat from it will penetrate the flower room but the light wont. Yes that UFO thing is a fan - a high powered vortex fan used primarily for indoor gardens.

You have a ton of options. What's your budget?

Another thought, You could insulate the room where it is exposed to the elements and put a fan with a thermostat attached to it so It will draw air from within the house until the temperature is right then it will shut off. You can also do this with an exterior exhaust fan to blow until the room cools off. Do yourself a favor and buy a baseboard thermostat (about $20 at Home Depot or Menards) rated for 22A at 120 or 220. Attach it to the lights and in the event of too much heat it will kick off your lights until the temperature is back under what the thermostat is set to. I just lost 15 plants because I didnt spend $20 to prevent an AC malfunction.

I could talk about this for days. PM me if you have any questions.

much thanks computergroove, lots of good info. unfortunately thats getting a little more involved than he was hoping to. under the stairs might be the best option.

for the 3x3 closet on the back of the house, is there any way putting one of these in there for veg and another for bloom would change any of those concerns? http://www.greners.com/led-grow-lights/led-grow-lights/solarflare-100w-vegmaster-led-grow-light-california-lightworks-veg.html LED's aren't ideal but if they make this possible then its not so bad. he's already spent about $500 on the ballast and everything else, he could return for the led and pop a small heater/box fan in there?

i'm also surprised that i'd need to thorough disinfect/styrofoam insulation et al for the closet seeing that plants do just fine with bugs etc in the outdoors. not arguing, just surprised.. this ductless a/c thing looked amazing til i showed him the price - no way he can drop another $600-1200. that would have solved some issues though!

this started out as a little aerogarden experiment, but its quickly racking up the bills. he's already 600-700 deep and was hoping to get by as is with room for a little more expenditure in that department.
thanks again for the good info and your time!

any ideas on those led's for vegging/flowering? still wondering best spot to set up in.... anyway to tap into that ducting already in the room and still be able to use laundry/heating as normal?

mofti said:

much thanks computergroove, lots of good info. unfortunately thats getting a little more involved than he was hoping to. under the stairs might be the best option.

for the 3x3 closet on the back of the house, is there any way putting one of these in there for veg and another for bloom would change any of those concerns? http://www.greners.com/led-grow-lights/led-grow-lights/solarflare-100w-vegmaster-led-grow-light-california-lightworks-veg.html LED's aren't ideal but if they make this possible then its not so bad. he's already spent about $500 on the ballast and everything else, he could return for the led and pop a small heater/box fan in there?

i'm also surprised that i'd need to thorough disinfect/styrofoam insulation et al for the closet seeing that plants do just fine with bugs etc in the outdoors. not arguing, just surprised.. this ductless a/c thing looked amazing til i showed him the price - no way he can drop another $600-1200. that would have solved some issues though!

this started out as a little aerogarden experiment, but its quickly racking up the bills. he's already 600-700 deep and was hoping to get by as is with room for a little more expenditure in that department.
thanks again for the good info and your time!

Click to expand...

That isn't even involved, and you're going to wish you made the investment when you start losing crops. Then you're going to say damn, I should of built this room out the right way 5 months ago.

Oh god, I also just looked at that first picture, you HAVE to fix that electrical, you HAVE TO!

yeah, thats exactly why i put the photo of the electrical in there... thanks for commenting on it. cap it? turn it off at the box? not sure of a sure-thing fix. so what should he put aside to spend to make sure its done right/safe beyond this point? he can't cut into the back door closet because it would be a giveaway to anyone around. under the stairs could work and vent into the ducting already there via heater/dryer. could also just throw em in the closet and vent into the duct thats in the wall there. the other option he is considering is to tone it down a bit....

mofti said:

yeah, thats exactly why i put the photo of the electrical in there... thanks for commenting on it. cap it? turn it off at the box? not sure of a sure-thing fix. so what should he put aside to spend to make sure its done right/safe beyond this point? he can't cut into the back door closet because it would be a giveaway to anyone around. under the stairs could work and vent into the ducting already there via heater/dryer. could also just throw em in the closet and vent into the duct thats in the wall there. the other option he is considering is to tone it down a bit....

Click to expand...

After looking at the pictures more closely I literally would just scrub everything down, spray foam, then paint white. Lay down some plastic and you should be fine, you will just have to go with the flow and adjust as your grow. With the electrical you should completely redo that box, remove it and clean it up, reattach to the stud and clear away some of that insulation. I would seriously just grab some cans of foam insulation and spray the whole thing down, and just get rid of the pink. So basically just make sure the wires are capped off and inside the electrical box, with a cover. Also make sure you use grommets and don't have any wire rubbing on metal.