Spectrum king led

cdgmoney250 said:

I work at a grow store and we have both the SK400+ 90 deg. and a Sun Systems LEC 315 hanging on display.
The light performs just as the company claims.

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Thanks for the info. Wasn't that comparing SK @ 440w to LEC's 350w? It seemed to me from the graphs that it worked out about the same considering the power difference?

I never understood Rami's antipathy to COBs. It seemed strangely religious, like "they don't exist!" Something always seemed off about that. (Contrails and Elvis conspiracies. ). He's definitely a passionate guy.

az2000 said:

Thanks for the info. Wasn't that comparing SK @ 440w to LEC's 350w? It seemed to me from the graphs that it worked out about the same considering the power difference?

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Different watt consumption yes.. But if you calculate PAR/Watts, the SK has an average of 27.82 PAR/Watt @ 24" (based on my measurements) compared to the LEC which has an average of 22.29 PAR/Watt @ 24".

I think they just wanted everybody to believe that they were somehow lightyears ahead of the curve. (pun intended)

The thing that always bothered me about par watts was the rigidity of the dimensions of the box itself but primarily the disregard for spectrum. Remember the par ratings of many mh over hps. Useful tool but limited also.

I find PAR readings to be especially useful when we already know the spectral distribution of the light being emitted. If we know what the SPD looks like, we can make comparisons using relative intensity.

IME, if two light sources have the same output/intensity, the light with the fuller spectrum will stimulate than plants moreso than with a narrower less full spectrum.

Spectrum King 400+ SPD



Phillips 315 Elite Agro 3100K (Cycoptics Reflector)

I should mention that the 240w CXB high bays usually come with an aluminum reflector which produces a 60 degree beam. That's a tight beam angle and concentrates the light too much in areas near the center. I got light burn and bleaching at 18" from bottom of reflector. So my point is that the reflector isn't great. I'm going to try it without the reflector now and see if it's any better. And I noticed that buds in the high intensity center zone look a lot worse than ones in dimmer zones. They get skinny and dry looking. I think they prefer a medium intensity.

I have 5 spectrum kings. IMHO, it is better than an HID... Less heat, less cooling.... Terps won't burn off so a better smell and flavor profile. You won't be changing out a bulb every 6-12 months.

Downside, they are expensive and newer technology is also coming out.

Quite a few weedtubers in BC, CO, and MI have done two plus grows with them and were very satisfied with the results.

John Berfelo ran the spectrum king vs CMH vs a Gavita

The Dude from the Dude Grows Show is also running them

Yeah I've seen a few grows with SK lamps. They usually yield about 1 lb. There's nothing wrong with them. Perfectly good True White high bays. Probably the 120 degree version is better than the one with the big 90 degree reflector. But there is indeed more recent and more cost effective technology now, namely CXB. Can't see any advantage in buying older more costly technology. Pretty much throwing a few hundred dollars away on every lamp.

BobCajun said:

But there is indeed more recent and more cost effective technology now, namely CXB. Can't see any advantage in buying older more costly technology. Pretty much throwing a few hundred dollars away on every lamp.

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I guess that's what still stands out to me about Rami and SpectrumKingLED. He calls COBs a "myth." That's a strong statement. When he was on this forum he defended it (or talked around it). Then his PAR readings seemed a little less-than methodical (for someone claiming the earth is flat).

It surprises me that his light is apparently decent.

I said this when I first saw the hyperbole on the SKL website because a COB would fit perfectly in that fixture. There's no reason *not* to use COB, that I can see. Why would he use a close-facsimile (a bunch of diodes in a densely-packed array?) instead? If he was flim-flammy he would use epiwhatever diodes. Instead, he uses Cree and makes that a selling point. If he would step above the the epi-whatever bamboozling to sell himself as quality, why wouldn't he do COB? (Why is he allergic to it?).

That was *exactly* my confusion a year ago. It doesn't add up to me. He sounds like a normal, quality-seeking guy like the DIYers here. And yet, "COB is a myth!" It sounds like someone claiming Elvis isn't really dead. It's that weird.

Is it just me?

az2000 said:

I guess that's what still stands out to me about Rami and SpectrumKingLED. He calls COBs a "myth." That's a strong statement. And when he was on this forum, he defended it (or talked around it). Then his PAR readings seemed a little less-than methodical. Considering the denial of reality concerning COBs, it made me suspicious of his PAR numbers.

It surprises me that his light is decent.

I said this when I first saw his light and hyperbole because a COB would fit perfectly in that fixture. There's no reason *not* to use COB, that I can see. Why would he use a close-facsimile (a bunch of diodes in a densely-packed array?) instead? If he was flim-flammy he would use epiwhatever diodes. Instead, he uses Cree and makes that a selling point. If he would step above the epi-whatever junk, why wouldn't he do COB?

That was *exactly* my confusion a year ago. It doesn't add up to me. He sounds like a normal, quality-seeking guy like the DIYers here. And yet, "COB is a myth!" It sounds like someone claiming Elvis isn't dead. It's that weird.

Is it just me?

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The guy with the long hair and sometimes beard is Brendan. I don't know who Rami is. Never seen him. I guess that was the only model Cree would license them to assemble. They probably spent a lot of money on the machines so now they're locked into the old technology until they pay that off. BTW, the proof that they're not specially designed as plant lights ids the fact that they have amber LEDs in them. That's how they make True White spectrum lamps, by adding some reds and ambers to the whites, but ambers are of no use in plant growth, only in human vision.

BobCajun said:

The guy with the long hair and sometimes beard is Brendan. I don't know who Rami is. Never seen him.

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I read references to Rami Pradi pitching these lights, and having been previously involved with an LED company. Brendan seems so passionate, I assumed he was the visionary behind it.

But, that adds even more confusion to what already seems confusing to me. If he's just a frontman, what does he get out if? He seems really good at peddling a lie. If he has no soul, he could do what Rami does and pocket all the money. Those fixtures are on AliBaba (I've heard). This Brenden guy could buy some, put COBs in them, and run circles around his employer (whom he's hired to promote a lie?).

Nothing about this makes sense to me. It's like stepping into a mirror world, where everything's backwards.

Rami is involved but he's not the on-camera guy. Apparently it's an existing LED manufacturing company called BrightLight LED or something like that, and they just decided to sell these Cree high bays as plant lights as a side thing I guess to try to drum up business for their manufacturing plant. But yeah, it's just 400w LED high bays. The exact spectrum is not a major concern really. You could buy from the lowest supplier. The 240w CXB high bays are only $400 and something each, so two of those are 480w of high bay for maybe $900 whereas the SKs cost 11 or 12.

[QUOTE="BobCajun, post: 12225669, member: 145029" but ambers are of no use in plant growth, only in human vision.[/QUOTE]

poppycock!.

amber waves of grain is important in a plant spectrum.

while I don't like spectrum Kings for a whole bunch of reasons, the spectrum is actually pretty decent.

PurpleBuz said:

[QUOTE="BobCajun, post: 12225669, member: 145029" but ambers are of no use in plant growth, only in human vision.

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poppycock[/QUOTE]
Okay, let me rephrase. Ambers are of less useful for plant growth than most other color bands.

BobCajun said:

Okay, let me rephrase. Ambers are of less useful for plant growth than most other color bands.

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and again I say poppycock. ... amber --- yellow/orange sitting right around 580 - 600 nm.

well gee that just happens to almost match the peak of a cree warm white cob, which we know grows well with relatively high efficiency,

PurpleBuz said:

and again I say poppycock. ... amber --- yellow/orange sitting right around 580 - 600 nm.

well gee that just happens to almost match the peak of a cree warm white cob, which we know grows well with relatively high efficiency,

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Okay, I suppose you're right. It's still just a stock True White array.

BobCajun said:

Okay, I suppose you're right. It's still just a stock True White array.

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which is Cree's answer to CMH lighting, LECs grow/flower some great cannabis last I checked..............SK's chips(mk-r) are outdated/overpriced compared to what the DIY guys are running in here though.

copying cmh's spd and doubling it's efficiency with cob/mono combo(or a horti cob) is where we are headed...........or not, positivity will figure it out when he comes back

BobCajun said:

I should mention that the 240w CXB high bays usually come with an aluminum reflector which produces a 60 degree beam. That's a tight beam angle and concentrates the light too much in areas near the center. I got light burn and bleaching at 18" from bottom of reflector. So my point is that the reflector isn't great. I'm going to try it without the reflector now and see if it's any better. And I noticed that buds in the high intensity center zone look a lot worse than ones in dimmer zones. They get skinny and dry looking. I think they prefer a medium intensity.

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18'' is too close to the plants with COBs I think, In fact I generally keep my old 3w LEDs at the 24'' mark from the canopy (or more) and I have always gotten great results that way. I think the COBs can be as far as 4ft away from your plants and that is how they can compete with HIDs for light coverage.

Got a w90 and I am at 8"-10" in flower. 16" works well vegging. No trouble and the light spreads well and fast in a shallow, wide zone of intensity. The fast lateral spread can get to buds between the leaves. This is same for reflector or bare cobs. The fast spread cob lights would make quite an array but I have no room to play.

Lenses capture, shape and blend the light and most often require more distance to work. I keep my a51 sgs and xgs further away so those 72 lenses on the LEDs can do their thing, 18" or so. I also have 120w optic with vero 18's and lenses which stays at 16" to 18".

hillbill said:

Got a w90 and I am at 8"-10" in flower. 16" works well vegging. No trouble and the light spreads well and fast in a shallow, wide zone of intensity. The fast lateral spread can get to buds between the leaves. This is same for reflector or bare cobs. The fast spread cob lights would make quite an array but I have no room to play.

Lenses capture, shape and blend the light and most often require more distance to work. I keep my a51 sgs and xgs further away so those 72 lenses on the LEDs can do their thing, 18" or so. I also have 120w optic with vero 18's and lenses which stays at 16" to 18".

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Right now I have them 30" away from 240w of cobs in the form of a circular array about 6" in diameter, with no reflector or lenses other than a cut out pie plate, and everything looks very good.

That sounds intense!