SSRI's, Children, School Shootings ?

"The main finding of the study, and the one that received the most press, was that for both males and females between the ages of 15 and 24 only, there was a statistically significant increase in the rate of violent crime during the period someone was taking the medication compared to the intervals when they weren’t. The “hazard ratio” for the 15-24 age group was 1.4 which roughly translates into a 40% increased likelihood.

At the same time, if antidepressants really worked wonders for young people, we should see that therapeutic SSRI usage was associated with a reduced risk of violent behavior, which it wasn’t."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201509/antidepressants-and-violence-link-in-search-cause

chiqifella said:

"The main finding of the study, and the one that received the most press, was that for both males and females between the ages of 15 and 24 only, there was a statistically significant increase in the rate of violent crime during the period someone was taking the medication compared to the intervals when they weren’t. The “hazard ratio” for the 15-24 age group was 1.4 which roughly translates into a 40% increased likelihood.

At the same time, if antidepressants really worked wonders for young people, we should see that therapeutic SSRI usage was associated with a reduced risk of violent behavior, which it wasn’t."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201509/antidepressants-and-violence-link-in-search-cause

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Only presenting what reinforces your argument illustrates your bias. This is also from the article.

"As reported by MedScape, one of the study authors, Seena Fazel, states: "Our own view is that some evidence suggests that it's a bit more complicated than that, because we found a link with subtherapeutic doses of SSRIs, and that would suggest to us that it may be that it's actually a lack of treatment [and] it could be residual symptoms that are driving this link.”

I find Dr. Rettaw's summary realistic about the issue.

"Like with most research, the study raises more questions than it answers. In my own practice, I have certainly observed young people become quite agitated when given SSRI antidepressants and have needed to stop the medication. This can be a tough call because it can be difficult to figure out whether the behaviors are due to the original problems getting worse (which might require more medications) or whether the medication itself is the problem. At the same time, I’ve also had many more patients tell me they feel less stressed and angry when taking SSRIs. Such is probably the reality with antidepressants. While this issue gets sorted out, we need to be able to exercise caution with SSRI medications, like any other, without over-reacting and writing off what can be an important tool in providing relief."

Rarely does therapeutic effectiveness correlate with safety. It is quite possible that in an attempt to not expose youth to a full dose of SSRI they are unintentionally giving them enough to create an agitated depression as opposed to clearing the depression. They don't know yet but they are studying it is my understanding.

you noticed I was biased

this too was included, a very important point to back my bias

curious2garden said:

1-Rarely does therapeutic effectiveness correlate with safety.

2-It is quite possible that in an attempt to not expose youth to a full dose of SSRI they are unintentionally giving them enough to create an agitated depression as opposed to clearing the depression.

3-They don't know yet but they are studying it is my understanding.

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add to these unknown ssri' drugs and their effects to parents who allow gun collections, a school shooting preventative cop that hides when the school , warnings ignored by fbi
and we get dead kids...all while they study, indeed, drugging kids is the study.

they dont know because there is no test to accurately measure serotonin without cutting into the brain.
why experiment with our most fragile children and experimental drugs known to cause anger, enough anger to murder the fda says

Isn't roughly 70% of the body's serotonin in the stomach. Perhaps a diet change would be more beneficial than the drugs .....idk just wondering.

chiqifella said:

you noticed I was biased

this too was included, a very important point to back my bias



add to these unknown ssri' drugs and their effects to parents who allow gun collections, a school shooting preventative cop that hides when the school , warnings ignored by fbi
and we get dead kids...all while they study, indeed, drugging kids is the study.

they dont know because there is no test to accurately measure serotonin without cutting into the brain.
why experiment with our most fragile children and experimental drugs known to cause anger, enough anger to murder the fda says

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What data do you have on how many parents allow gun collections? Can you define your terms? What constitutes a collection, for example? And permission?

Bareback said:

Isn't roughly 70% of the body's serotonin in the stomach. Perhaps a diet change would be more beneficial than the drugs .....idk just wondering.

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Close. It’s 90% in the digestive track. And many nutritionists suggest diet before anything. Problem is that doesn’t help big pharma sell pills.

The meds are produced. Then rushed to market. Then treatment is adjusted to coincide with the effects of the new meds. Then the bad side effects are shown enough to eliminate said meds. Then big pharma produces new “better” medication and the cycle continues.

Ain’t capitalism great?

I worked for a natural pharmaceutical eye treatment company in Colorado for a few years. We made homeopathic eye medication and specific vitamins for doctors. Funny how strict the fda was with our harmless meds but put pharmaceutical eye drops with known irritants right on the market for big pharma. They got to produce and sell in less than 3 months while it took my boss two years. There are no harmful ingredients in the natural meds. The chemicals don’t worry our government regulators much it seems.

chiqifella said:

that is correct, however are you able to ignore the obvious correlation and its relationship to mass murdering children?

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SSRIs are prescribed in many nations all over the world, but weekly gun massacres only occur here.

your theory just went down

chiqifella said:

unknown ssri' drugs and their effects to parents who allow gun collections, a school shooting preventative cop that hides when the school , warnings ignored by fbi
and we get dead kids...

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the only thing that correlates 100% to school shootings is a gun with which to shoot kids.

there is absolutely no mechanism in SSRIs which causes violence.

SSRIs life people up from depressive states. this may allow someone who is already violent or suicidal to act on their urges.

you are not a bright person, and your arguments are bad.

i'd be embarrassed.

abe

UncleBuck said:

SSRIs are prescribed in many nations all over the world, but weekly gun massacres only occur here.

your theory just went down

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It is just as easy to reverse the logic you think proves your point. The patients are becoming more violent and this has been known for some time.

The ones here have easier access to guns and kill themselves or others is the point you keep making.

In some other countries there are no guns available so the patients are not shooting.

But are they exhibiting the same tendencies while on the meds?

You point is mute. We need to know the cause. Not apply band aids and not solve the real problem.

What you keep saying over and over is meaningless to the actual problem. Unless you think removing people’s rights because of your simple opinion is ok.

Also seems in every case someone was aware and did not tell anyone or do their job to help stop it.

Why are you not starting with the people at fault. You sure like to blame politicians.

MichiganMedGrower said:

It is just as easy to reverse the logic you think proves your point. The patients are becoming more violent and this has been known for some time.

The ones here have easier access to guns and kill themselves or others is the point you keep making.

In some other countries there are no guns available so the patients are not shooting.

But are they exhibiting the same tendencies while on the meds?

You point is mute. We need to know the cause. Not apply band aids and not solve the real problem.

What you keep saying over and over is meaningless to the actual problem. Unless you think removing people’s rights because of your simple opinion is ok.

Also seems in every case someone was aware and did not tell anyone or do their job to help stop it.

Why are you not starting with the people at fault. You sure like to blame politicians.

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if SSRIs caused violent behavior (they do not), then there would be a similar rate of violent crimes perpetrated by people in other nations who also take SSRIs at comparable rates.

but that does not happen.

this is nothing more than a clumsy attempt by insecure right wingers to take the heat off of the fact that weekly gun massacres are exclusive to our nation alone.

your arguments are terrible. i'd be embarrassed.

UncleBuck said:

the only thing that correlates 100% to school shootings is a gun with which to shoot kids.

there is absolutely no mechanism in SSRIs which causes violence.

SSRIs life people up from depressive states. this may allow someone who is already violent or suicidal to act on their urges.

you are not a bright person, and your arguments are bad.

i'd be embarrassed.

abe

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Do you even know what the drugs actually control? Not everyone is lifted out of their depression by these drugs. Some have very severe side effects from the increased seratonin uptake.

I told you I have personal experience with violence caused by ssri meds. My oldest friend I know is manic depressive and went on to become a psychologist. And I can’t say much about the other situation for privacy sake but it is much closer to home and I have been injured from a patient showing violent side effects while taking the meds. Off the meds. Never violent. Just depressed. Bi polar unfortunately.

You don’t know what you are talking about here.

This is not to say that I don’t want to keep guns out of children’s hands. But it is a separate issue. And you are not offering any solution. Just like every time you complain about anything.

You can’t just say this causes that. Ban it. This is America you idiot. Who are you? Our dictator?

MichiganMedGrower said:

Do you even know what the drugs actually control? Not everyone is lifted out of their depression by these drugs. Some have very severe side effects from the increased seratonin uptake.

I told you I have personal experience with violence caused by ssri meds. My oldest friend I know is manic depressive and went on to become a psychologist. And I can’t say much about the other situation for privacy sake but it is much closer to home and I have been injured from a patient showing violent side effects while taking the meds. Off the meds. Never violent. Just depressed. Bi polar unfortunately.

You don’t know what you are talking about here.

This is not to say that I don’t want to keep guns out of children’s hands. But it is a separate issue. And you are not offering any solution. Just like every time you complain about anything.

You can’t just say this causes that. Ban it. This is America you idiot. Who are you? Our dictator?

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i'm sorry you are having a meltdown.

there is no mechanism in SSRIs which causes violence or suicide. my wife, who has a doctorate in psychology, is happy to explain this to you.

you are not a bright person, your anecdotal stories offered up as evidence are proof of this.

your arguments are bad. i'd be embarrassed.

UncleBuck said:

if SSRIs caused violent behavior (they do not), then there would be a similar rate of violent crimes perpetrated by people in other nations who also take SSRIs at comparable rates.

but that does not happen.

this is nothing more than a clumsy attempt by insecure right wingers to take the heat off of the fact that weekly gun massacres are exclusive to our nation alone.

your arguments are terrible. i'd be embarrassed.

Click to expand...

I haven seen any reason to believe other violence is not being committed. All your statistics have been about suicide here mostly.

You are incorrect about the meds. They are being very much considered problematic by doctors.

These are old meds. This is not a new thing.

What’s wrong with you that you have to end every comment you make with a slanderous insult.

Just admit you don’t know about the drug or chemical imbalances.

Even if everyone actually agreed with you no one is giving up their hard earned guns. This is America you idiot.

How old are you Buck? You talk like my ignorant racist father.

MichiganMedGrower said:

I haven seen any reason to believe other violence is not being committed.

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many other nations prescribe SSRIs to patients at comparable rates. if SSRIs caused violence (they do not), then there would comparable rates of violent incidents in those other nations as well. but there is not. so we can rule out your theory using mill's methods.

the rest of your post is just you crying. it is not a good argument at all. i'd be embarrassed.

jew hater.

UncleBuck said:

i'm sorry you are having a meltdown.

there is no mechanism in SSRIs which causes violence or suicide. my wife, who has a doctorate in psychology, is happy to explain this to you.

you are not a bright person, your anecdotal stories offered up as evidence are proof of this.

your arguments are bad. i'd be embarrassed.

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your fat ugly man wife is a piece of shit with his/her head buried too.
I've shown you the FDA studies that show a marked increase in violence when ssri's are used.
The same warning is mandated on the fucking label you idiot.

UncleBuck said:

i'm sorry you are having a meltdown.

there is no mechanism in SSRIs which causes violence or suicide. my wife, who has a doctorate in psychology, is happy to explain this to you.

you are not a bright person, your anecdotal stories offered up as evidence are proof of this.

your arguments are bad. i'd be embarrassed.

Click to expand...

Now you are even more ignorant than last time. Your doctor wife is correct. As long as changing the natural flow of seratonin doesn’t affect the patient too negatively. Your statement is meaningless. The doctors and big pharma put meds out there with no known mechanism of action if shown to work often enough too.

The imbalance is in the patient. The meds have been sold and fucking up a percentage of the patients for many years now.

How does that change anything about this topic?

And it is still a separate issue from the guns.

cannabineer said:

What data do you have on how many parents allow gun collections? Can you define your terms? What constitutes a collection, for example? And permission?

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recent shooter showed his gun collection to parents and social media, he was wealthy, with 880k at his disposal, his guardians knew he was mentally ill, knew he collected guns, and even called police on him dozens of times. thats one set of shitty parents that allowed a gun collection that was used to slaughter children. Do you wish to work backwards from there now?
cops knew he had guns, cops knew he was going to shoot up the school, neighbors knew too, social media knew it, the fbi even knew it. His guns are registered. he registered them illegally obviously, while he was mentally ill and drugged.

UncleBuck said:

many other nations prescribe SSRIs to patients at comparable rates. if SSRIs caused violence (they do not), then there would comparable rates of violent incidents in those other nations as well. but there is not. so we can rule out your theory using mill's methods.

the rest of your post is just you crying. it is not a good argument at all. i'd be embarrassed.

jew hater.

View attachment 4096855

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Where is your proof of this? There is an awful lot of violence in other countries too. You argument is about mass shootings.

Do you feel happy or something to keep lying about me every post. I tried to just talk to you many times but you respond like a beaten punished child.

chiqifella said:

your fat ugly man wife is a piece of shit with his/her head buried too.
I've shown you the FDA studies that show a marked increase in violence when ssri's are used.
The same warning is mandated on the fucking label you idiot.

Click to expand...

i'm sorry you are having a meltdown. perhaps some light reading will calm you down.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/special-reports/relationship-between-antidepressant-initiation-and-suicide-risk/page/0/3

Summary

The data show that in adults, antidepressants appear to protect against suicidal events. SSRIs are associated with lower overall suicide rates compared with other classes of antidepressants (eg, TCAs). Antidepressants are effective in reducing symptoms, which, in turn, mediates suicidal events in adults and the elderly. This does not appear to be the case for youths, for whom antidepressant medications can reduce the severity of depression but appear to have no effect one way or the other on suicidal thoughts and behavior. Conversely to what is seen in adults, it may be that aggressive-impulsive traits play a more important role in youth suicide than does depressed mood. The impact of antidepressants on these traits remains unclear. Youth suicide may also be potentially related to illicit drug use and social factors, such as bullying, that are not directly affected by antidepressants.

UncleBuck said:

i'm sorry you are having a meltdown. perhaps some light reading will calm you down.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/special-reports/relationship-between-antidepressant-initiation-and-suicide-risk/page/0/3

Summary

The data show that in adults, antidepressants appear to protect against suicidal events. SSRIs are associated with lower overall suicide rates compared with other classes of antidepressants (eg, TCAs). Antidepressants are effective in reducing symptoms, which, in turn, mediates suicidal events in adults and the elderly. This does not appear to be the case for youths, for whom antidepressant medications can reduce the severity of depression but appear to have no effect one way or the other on suicidal thoughts and behavior. Conversely to what is seen in adults, it may be that aggressive-impulsive traits play a more important role in youth suicide than does depressed mood. The impact of antidepressants on these traits remains unclear. Youth suicide may also be potentially related to illicit drug use and social factors, such as bullying, that are not directly affected by antidepressants.

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sure, there are studies showing both sides.
The FDA mandates suicide warnings on the ssri label. ever wonder why they do that?