Starting seed in hydroton w/o rockwool?

Vumar said:

Waterfarm has a small reservoir and thus a Ph that isn't as stable. Unless you plan to check every waterfarm every day or two AND constantly tune your Ph meter/stick go ahead. I'll keep my RDWC

Click to expand...

You can just use a low or medium dose of nutrients. Don't over feed and there is no issues with the concerns that you have. In this regard it's the most hands off system you will ever run. Check once a week at the most, and you can have a Dosetronic to adjust your PH and nutrients. You just set the system up, put the feed lines in your bottles and forget it. You should try it if you are worried about too much time spent in your garden.

purplelicious said:

You can just use a low or medium dose of nutrients. Don't over feed and there is no issues with the concerns that you have. In this regard it's the most hands off system you will ever run. Check once a week at the most and you can have a Dosetronic to adjust your PH and nutrients. You just set the system up, put the feed lines in your bottles and forget it. You should try it if you are worried about too much time spent in your garden.

Click to expand...

Ph is unstable because of the volume (or lack there of) of water. Not because of TDS (total dissolved solids) or any other variable factor. The more water there is the more stable your Ph will be therefore reducing less than ideal Ph swings.

I've made multiple runs with single and multiple DWCs (not connected just individual 5gals). I will say that a plant can drink a TON of water and if you check your plant once a week (at most? you said?) than your plant either isn't very big or it drinks less than 4gals of water PER week.

I like the fact that waterfarm buckets use less water in the reservoir. They also use gravity feed from the 13 gallon top res to a 8 gallon controller tank,that is a 21 gallon res along with the individual buckets that are 4 gallon each and up to 12 per res. This is what I'm using. http://generalhydroponics.com/site/index.php/products/systems/waterfarm/waterfarm_8_pack/ It says right in the description "The WaterFarm 8-Pack is the system for big growers" I dare anyone to make a better DIY kit on this level and post the pics here.

Vumar said:

Ph is unstable because of the volume (or lack there of) of water. Not because of TDS (total dissolved solids) or any other variable factor. The more water there is the more stable your Ph will be therefore reducing less than ideal Ph swings.

I've made multiple runs with single and multiple DWCs (not connected just individual 5gals). I will say that a plant can drink a TON of water and if you check your plant once a week (at most? you said?) than your plant either isn't very big or it drinks less than 4gals of water PER week.

Click to expand...

Nice. They also have a 20 gallon top res and 20 gallon controller so that would be a 40 gallon res then 4 gallon per pot. Is that enough? I don't think you understand how this system works.

They have the single bucket water farm system. If I was to grow one plant that would be the way to go. I think you can put seedling with tap root right in the hydroton .Although I have not tried that. They are not very expensive, just order on Amazon. You might save the small difference in cost in the time and money spent on gas driving around getting parts for a DIY kit. Or maybe I just hate DIY stuff. Don't get me wrong I had to build my growroom, but I didn't wan't to make my own ballast or make my own hoods from sheets of metal. Although it would of been cheaper lol.

purplelicious said:

I like the fact that waterfarm buckets use less water in the reservoir. They also use gravity feed from the 13 gallon top res to a 8 gallon controller tank,that is a 21 gallon res along with the individual buckets that are 4 gallon each and up to 12 per res. This is what I'm using. http://generalhydroponics.com/site/index.php/products/systems/waterfarm/waterfarm_8_pack/ It says right in the description "The WaterFarm 8-Pack is the system for big growers" I dare anyone to make a better DIY kit on this level and post the pics here.

Click to expand...

Why is your hydrofarm RDWC better than a normal RDWC? I made a very cheap DIY for like $200 parts total... first time I ever made one too!

Nothing is wrong with your setup, you have success with it great! I just have my opinions,and they might not be great for most people. Making a DIY RDWC can have a lot of issues. From what I see everyone uses water pumps, pumps create heat. So to prevent heat you put in a water chiller. All of these things you can avoid if you only use air pumps. You have to design you're system correctly to only use air pumps ,not just put air stones in buckets. Making a circulating drip feed system, with a reservoir that holds fresh nutrients to top off the buckets when they get low. You can then add the air stones in to each pot if you want, but those are just helping, not running your system. You have the best of all techniques in one simple setup. I would not have switched to DWC if I had to run water pumps and water chillers. I was going to do a simple flood and drain table when I was told about waterfarm. It is downsizing and upgrading. I could go out of town for two months and come back to a harvest. If I set up a Dosetron to keep nutrients and PH where I need them,set my top res up with a float valve connected to my water filter to keep it full of fresh water. This was all very valuable information that I really appreciate. So yes start your seeds in hydroton. I guess this thread is done? lol

I really don't like this system at first glance. I mean, the idea of pumping some water around VIA air pumps seems interesting, but I don't see the point of having 2 gal of hydroton in your bucket and a top drip instead of just having a netpot of hydroton to provide stability and filling the rest of the bucket with water? It seems to me like a waste of valuable space.

Spanky84 said:

I really don't like this system at first glance. I mean, the idea of pumping some water around VIA air pumps seems interesting, but I don't see the point of having 2 gal of hydroton in your bucket and a top drip instead of just having a netpot of hydroton to provide stability and filling the rest of the bucket with water? It seems to me like a waste of valuable space.

Click to expand...

A 2 gallon bucket is not much bigger then, lets say even a 6 inch net pot. I don't see much difference, square pots are better than round too, if you want to be silly about shit.

My 6 inch net pot is 11 cm deep and radius is about 7.5 cm. Simple calculation puts it's volume at 1942 ccm or about 2 liter. 2 gallon is 7.5 liter. That's not even close. I think plants would do much better in a good old DWC bucket and larger plants couldn't even grow in that kind of space.

I have a GH PowerGrower single, which is basically the same system as a water farm. It's a legit hydro system. I will vouch for its efficiency and competence. Let's face it, it's simple. The bubbles from the air pump bubble water up to the drip ring. You got circulation and oxygen. You could build a system yourself. Even buy the drip ring and everything else. But, to me, it just seems easier to go ahead and buy one than do all that building. Even just a plain ole DWC Bubble Bucket is under $40. Why you gonna buy all that stuff and rig it all up when you can buy a tried true well built system so cheap?

If I was gonna DIY and had a larger grow, I would just go with Bato Bucket system. Right now, I just use Hempy bucket system and the Lucas formula. So easy and no headaches.

purplelicious said:

A 2 gallon bucket is not much bigger then, lets say even a 6 inch net pot. I don't see much difference, square pots are better than round too, if you want to be silly about shit.

Click to expand...

For DIY ppl... Square = easier fits for water-tight joints. Round buckets can be a pain to drill and install hardware as easily and as accurately. So I agree to a degree!~

For the DIY person, you can make the air lift water line. Use it to make water flow through the system and make drip lines.

purplelicious said:

For the DIY person, you can make the air lift water line. Use it to make water flow through the system and make drip lines.

Click to expand...

Yeah u can make your own car too DIY. Go ahead and pic up that ride you built from steel you dug out of the ground. Or your bicycle. Whatever. Or, you can stop trying to pose like a genius, get a freekin job and buy legit tried and true stuff.

I just ain't feeling any type of ingenuitive vibe here. Seems more like misinformation.

GrowUrOwnDank said:

Yeah u can make your own car too DIY. Go ahead and pic up that ride you built from steel you dug out of the ground. Or your bicycle. Whatever. Or, you can stop trying to pose like a genius, get a freekin job and buy legit tried and true stuff.

I just ain't feeling any type of ingenuitive vibe here. Seems more like misinformation.

Click to expand...

Are you trying to say you can't DIY a Water Farm setup? You don't know how the air water lift works? You said you used one? I have not made any DIY shit. I bought the Water Farm 8 pack. I was simply saying you can make the water flow with only air, not using mechanical pumps. If you can't make a air water lift system,that is ancient technology, maybe you shouldn't be making anything. You giving me the compliment that I'm tying to pose as a genius really makes me laugh. IF you think what I have said is anything other than my opinion, than you are extremely gullible. I was genuinely trying to give good advice. You should go back and read a thread before you jump in to troll and attack people. You are just rude and negative, good debate is healthy. You need to go smoke some of your dank.

GrowUrOwnDank said:

Yeah u can make your own car too DIY. Go ahead and pic up that ride you built from steel you dug out of the ground. Or your bicycle. Whatever. Or, you can stop trying to pose like a genius, get a freekin job and buy legit tried and true stuff.

I just ain't feeling any type of ingenuitive vibe here. Seems more like misinformation.

Click to expand...

Ok, for a 10 bucket system that takes a lot of drilling, fitting tubes and shit, I can see where you are going, but for a single bucket system, come on, it's like changing a lightbulb, not like making a car.

"Get your facts right. It's a dwc recirculating system just a better design. So it is a drip and RDWC, even better."

The Waterfarm system is not RDWC, nor will it perform like one - it's really just as simple as that.
It isn't DWC at all, it's a drip feed system using hydrotron grow medium, and the rez doesn't recirculate through the buckets, it just tops them off when needed using gravity. As a result, PH and EC can vary considerably from bucket to bucket depending on the individual plant, as opposed to a recirculating system in which each bucket maintains the same PH and EC as the rez.

Since you clearly don't understand what an RDWC system actually is, you probably shouldn't bother offering alternatives.

dirty larry said:

"Get your facts right. It's a dwc recirculating system just a better design. So it is a drip and RDWC, even better."

The Waterfarm system is not RDWC, nor will it perform like one - it's really just as simple as that.
It isn't DWC at all, it's a drip feed system using hydrotron grow medium, and the rez doesn't recirculate through the buckets, it just tops them off when needed using gravity. As a result, PH and EC can vary considerably from bucket to bucket depending on the individual plant, as opposed to a recirculating system in which each bucket maintains the same PH and EC as the rez.

Since you clearly don't understand what an RDWC system actually is, you probably shouldn't bother offering alternatives.

Click to expand...

Great to have such insight. So, the water circulates from a 8 gallon controller reservoir directly connected to all of the buckets. In turn that controller reservoir is fed by the top feed reservoir, this is the one that does not circulate in the system and only tops off the controller reservoir. Water moves through the whole system not just the drip lines, an air lift in the controller regulates this. I don't try to say it is something it is not. It is a rdwc drip feed hydroponic system. If you are trying to confuse people well done, thanks for your time. And if you talked to me like that in person we would have a much different argument. I digress, you have your insight and I keep my working knowledge expanding.

"So, the water circulates from a 8 gallon controller reservoir directly connected to all of the buckets."

Yes.

"It is a rdwc drip feed hydroponic system."

No, it isn't.

To RE-circulate - the "R" in RDWC - water from the buckets would then return to the controller reservoir and mix - equalizing EC and PH throughout the whole system. That doesn't happen in your system.

dirty larry said:

"So, the water circulates from a 8 gallon controller reservoir directly connected to all of the buckets."

Yes.

"It is a rdwc drip feed hydroponic system."

No, it isn't.

To RE-circulate - the "R" in RDWC - water from the buckets would then return to the controller reservoir and mix - equalizing EC and PH throughout the whole system. That doesn't happen in your system.

Click to expand...

It does.. I'm sure we could go on arguing, but there has to be one of us that is wrong. I ask you to consider what you are saying.I will even explain how the controller res works. It pulls water from the last bucket in the loop, it then fills the controller reservoir with that water, and the res gets filled continuously. The controller res will then feed the first bucket in the system, which fills and overflows to the next and on and on until it's back to the last bucket, completing the process. The cycle creates a circulation effect.