STAY AWAY FROM LED's!!!!!

hi drfever, led technology is changing rapidly every year, just like CPUs. the newest rebel chips are using SMT, just 4 diodes to make 10 watts, and because they are surface mount technology, they are radically different from LEDs a few years ago. cool stuff will be here next year

DrFever said:

what i mentioned above led are mercury free meaning no ultravoilet light when looking at life in general The SUN not only does it give off ultravoilet light it also gives of radiation
one would think if your goin to produce lighting that is like the sun for instance a 1000 watt HPS = pretty much same lumens the sun produces on any given day obviously lacking other stuff the sun produces

i am not a hater of LED but find it useless for the needs of indoor growers what most growers want is fast growth and big yields
don;t get me wrong in time LED will be up there but also dont ever count out MH or HPS there also spending vast amounts of money to produce a better product
its bin said that LED do fairly good in veg but are week in flowering
so why bother really with it when for half the price you can put up a hps and grow both ends of the spectrum and win win

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Interesting point regarding HID making improvements, too. I remember when the SonAgro first came out in the early 90's. It was the first blue enhanced HPS bulb. Prior to that, we all had to run some MH in the bloom room to round out the spectrum...or get stuck with really unhealthy plants. Now, the Hortilux is standard.

I recently switched to CAP's Digilux HPS's because of fears of damage and premature degradation of my trusted Horti's fired by digital ballasts. I recently tested these bulbs after 7 months of usage. Less than 5% lumen degradation. They're still brighter than a brand new Horti after 7 months. Improvements like these raise the bar for LED. Now that it seems evident that damn near watt for watt is needed for similar performance between LED and HID, the advantages have come down to heat and bulb life. Well, HID bulb life just got a bit longer. I'm a pragmatic businessman. Crunching these numbers is not rocket science. With air cooled hoods settup properly, and 19 seer inverter technology A/C systems, cooling costs for my 14K bloom room are around $300/month in the heat of summer. Cut that in half in the winter. I figure at today's costs it would run me around $25,000 to replace my HID's with LED's. I'd still need some A/C...but very little. I figure I would save arounf $2,000/year in A/C and $1,400/year in bulb replacement costs. So, 7 years to break even. That is, of course, IF I could get the LED's to match the yield and quality of my HiD's for $25,000. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be worth it. But, if I were to get really shrewd and factor in interest on my line of credit needed to make the initial purchse (money always costs money, whether you pay to borrow, or take it out of savings), the payback time would be closer to 9 years. These are not numbers that give me a big ol hardon.

Now, if the LED's could provide some direct energy savings on my lighting costs, they can become much more attractive very fast. This is why I keep going on about how many watts of LED it would take to replace a 1000 watt HPS. This, to me, is the deciding factor. Watt for watt, they just don't cut it. I'm still a believer that first, the LED gang needs to design and build a light that truly competes with a 1000 HPS (I'm not saying they haven't done this yet), then, they can work on making that light as efficient as possible.

All this talk has me very curious. I'm about 1 bonghit away from dropping 700 bucks on a 400 watt induction light to see what that can do. I don't think these lights are getting the attention they may deserve. It's a very simple light that can be made very cheaply with some decent production quantities. It would be kind of ironic if induction lights ended up being the future of grow lights. Not many people would have seen that one coming.

Just read last 2 pages and i'm smashing my own head off a concrete floor.....

i would love to see some pics of LED grows that started and like 20 days later pics
Everytime i see threads on led you see some pic then you never see any updates ????? so one begins to question

as well i like to note that everyone seems dead on saying that LED doesnt produce heat i for one know that temp are also need for healthy growing plants

DrFever said:

i would love to see some pics of LED grows that started and like 20 days later pics
Everytime i see threads on led you see some pic then you never see any updates ????? so one begins to question

as well i like to note that everyone seems dead on saying that LED doesnt produce heat i for one know that temp are also need for healthy growing plants

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Click on my sig.... DERP

Here are 2 plants, 20 days from the day they got dropped into a glass of water, grown under a 100watt Blackstar at first then under a 100watt and a 180watt.

Clonex said:

Just read last 2 pages and i'm smashing my own head off a concrete floor.....

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Clonex...Brother....why the frustration? I hate to see ya get your blood pressure up over a lighting discussion. I have some cured Tahoe OG X Chemdog nugs that could put an end to your anxiety real quick. I'm afraid to say this, but it just may be the best weed I've ever smoked. It's without questions the best Kush I'v ever fucked with. It's as close to "Pure Kush" as I've seen. I'll be posting some pics of my thread in a few days. We need to get some of it into your bong for momments like these.

Clonex said:

Just read last 2 pages and i'm smashing my own head off a concrete floor.....

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My sentiments exactly.

You need to look more.

I have seen plenty of CFL, HID, and outdoor grows that appear, and disappear just the same.

You just have to look extra with LED, because it is newer and less people use them because of that. There are good LED journals and videos out there for those willing to look, what do you want, for us to feed the links to you?

Btw, your plants are nothing to write home about, even as far as HPS goes.

Research my friend, research.

I couldn't care less either way, use whatever you want, people THAT ACTUALLY USED BOTH, know the answer, spewing what "I heard", or "my guy says or said", is BS, that is not "proof", buy a panel, buy a good one, and try it out and shut the fuck up with the hearsay already!

You'd think a "moderator", well I use that term loosely here, but play mod whatever, you'd think you'd have more common sense.

There is a guy on another thread that says CFLs can make 1.5 grams per watt, I guess that is true too huh?

Again, use whatever light you want. And make yourself look like an ass as much as you want with your smallish HPS plants, most know LEDs are far superior in veg.

Have a nice day

DrFever said:

i would love to see some pics of LED grows that started and like 20 days later pics
Everytime i see threads on led you see some pic then you never see any updates ????? so one begins to question

as well i like to note that everyone seems dead on saying that LED doesnt produce heat i for one know that temp are also need for healthy growing plants

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Beefbisquit said:

Click on my sig.... DERP

Here are 2 plants, 20 days from the day they got dropped into a glass of water, grown under a 100watt Blackstar at first then under a 100watt and a 180watt.

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Its very nice but not the discussion topic , you are growing stealthy small plants in a box or closet , we already know that led can get results this way your arguing with Drfever who has so far managed to post lovely pictures also but not made any valid points what so ever !!

I am banging my head on the floor because the thread has become "groundhog day" , we are looking for new advancements in LED lighting being used in a commercial sized grow , where the penatration , coverage and flower density issues have been resolved , also it seems we are looking at ways to compare light levels between HID and LED units , as in a form of measurement , and while im on it any other form of lighting that will stack up against hid..... lets get somewhere

collective gardener said:

Clonex...Brother....why the frustration? I hate to see ya get your blood pressure up over a lighting discussion. I have some cured Tahoe OG X Chemdog nugs that could put an end to your anxiety real quick. I'm afraid to say this, but it just may be the best weed I've ever smoked. It's without questions the best Kush I'v ever fucked with. It's as close to "Pure Kush" as I've seen. I'll be posting some pics of my thread in a few days. We need to get some of it into your bong for momments like these.

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If you need a second opinion on that Kush ya just holar collective

Collective , a link for your thread please , ty in advance ....

Check the link in my sig if you want to check out a comparison grow between 3 different LED brands

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WeJuana said:

Check the link in my sig if you want to check out a comparison grow between 3 different LED brands

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How tall are you planning on growing your plants ?

Clonex said:

I am banging my head on the floor because the thread has become "groundhog day"

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Maybe because you keep the same mind frame?

You may want to consider watching the grow and seeing how Blackstar sizes up instead of having a pre-conceived notion. Even if one, two or three grows didn't go well for you or someone you knew, it does not mean the light was at fault.

Clonex said:

Collective , a link for your thread please , ty in advance ....

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https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html

I am not him but there you go

WeJuana said:

Maybe because you keep the same mind frame?

You may want to consider watching the grow and seeing how Blackstar sizes up instead of having a pre-conceived notion. Even if one, two or three grows didn't go well for you or someone you knew, it does not mean the light was at fault.

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What lol ? are you seriously gonna start insulting me with childish playground jibes ?? Why do you not read the thread??? I have trial'd Blackstars Panels x5 at a cost of over 10k£ - and ppl wonder why im banging my head in frustration , i am running a 6k Hid setup and i took the plunge , my mindset is do not get ripped again or let down my customers , fuck it , can you read anyway ? am i wasting my time ??

Clonex said:

What lol ? are you seriously gonna start insulting me with childish playground jibes ?? Why do you not read the thread??? I have trial'd Blackstars Panels x5 at a cost of over 10k£ - and ppl wonder why im banging my head in frustration , i am running a 6k Hid setup and i took the plunge , my mindset is do not get ripped again or let down my customers , fuck it , can you read anyway ? am i wasting my time ??

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I did read some of the thread, but I don't have time to sit down and read all 54 pages. How long ago was your trial? 2011 model lights? What is your basis or reason for not liking the lights?

Give specifics or facts relating to your grow instead of just throwing out what sounds like opinions and I believe a lot more people will be inclined to listen. Your not wasting your time talking to me, I am here to learn and listen so I apologize if you thought I was trying to insult you.. I would like to hear information with a basis though rather than opinions.

WeJuana said:

I did read some of the thread, but I don't have time to sit down and read all 54 pages. How long ago was your trial? 2011 model lights? What is your basis or reason for not liking the lights?

Give specifics or facts relating to your grow instead of just throwing out what sounds like opinions and I believe a lot more people will be inclined to listen. Your not wasting your time talking to me, I am here to learn and listen so I apologize if you thought I was trying to insult you.. I would like to hear information with a basis though rather than opinions.

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Thats cool no worries , i replaced all 5 x hps with Blackstar led panels in 2008 , all info is in thread , long story short was not enough coverage , light penatration and the quality of marketable bud just wasnt the same....