Stumped. K def or burn

firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
I was gone for a few days like 3-4 weeks ago and got a little tip burn since my feed rose. I lowered feed and it seems like it's worsening which makes me believe this isn't nute burn.

The only thing that this looks like is K def. but the lower growth is fine and everything I read about K def is it's mobile and starts on the bottom.

The other two aren't showing these symptoms and appear to be 2 weeks ahead of this one. So if anything this plants nutrient requirements could be higher. But a deficiency isn't jiving with what I read about since bottom looks good.

This is what the bottom growth looks like. Looks fine aside from some slightly tip burn. Leaves aren't distorted. No excessive burn.

IMG_20190910_203644.jpg IMG_20190910_203650.jpg

This is what the top looks like

IMG_20190910_203413.jpg IMG_20190910_203435.jpg
 
saintmetalhead

saintmetalhead

Well-Known Member
What week are you TOTAL in flowering because those plants look like they might be choking on salt have you started flushing at all they look close. maybe only a few weeks from crop

Last indoor plant i had did this towards the end, as soon as i started flushing it went away. Have you been using alot of Cal boost or Epsom salts?
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
Feed was at 1.1EC and I was burning another plant so I lowered it to 0.8EC (my tap is 0.2EC)

Since lowering the plant I was burning stopped and this one just keeps getting worse.

It's under LED lights that are 18" away, though it does not appear to be heat stress related since there isn't any foxtailing or leaf curl
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
saintmetalhead said:
What week are you TOTAL in flowering because those plants look like they might be choking on salt have you started flushing at all they look close. maybe only a few weeks from crop

Last indoor plant i had did this towards the end, as soon as i started flushing it went away. Have you been using alot of Cal boost or Epsom salts?
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I flipped around July 4th. Buds didn't appear until mid July.

I did add a PK boost 3 weeks ago which is what made my feed go all funny. So I did another res change about 2 weeks ago and feed has been slowly falling. Ive been topping up with plain water and some nutrients to keep feed around 0.8EC
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
This is what the same strain but different seed looks like right next to it.IMG_20190831_203607.jpgNo major burning. This was 2 weeks ago.

And this is what the plant in question looked like 2 weeks agoIMG_20190831_203644.jpg
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
Yeah they are ready already, but this one is far behind.

I read something about too much Ca and Mg locking out K?

I'm using Jack's 321 diluted. Just the weirdest thing.

I'll do a res change and feed just the Jack's and forgo the Mg and Ca and see if it stops progressing
 
Mafiaal

Mafiaal

Well-Known Member
I personally don't think you have anything wrong, in late flower the leafs tend to change like that.
You're in the home stretch now, i would not go messing around too much. You may want to give them a week of just water and cut. IMHO.
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
Mafiaal said:
I personally don't think you have anything wrong, in late flower the leafs tend to change like that.
You're in the home stretch now, i would not go messing around too much. You may want to give them a week of just water and cut. IMHO.
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I don't know. None of my other plants are doing this.
 
3rd Monkey

3rd Monkey

Well-Known Member
firsttimeARE said:
I had added a bit too much MKP, but I changed that res 2 weeks ago and didn't use any. Yet it keeps on progressing.
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It likely burned the roots pretty good. Enough to keep going 2 weeks... that's a stretch.

K def, the stomata can't regulate properly, so the leaves canoe down as well as the tips. It's mobile so it steals from lower leaves.

K tox, it burns the edges up just like a def, but tips turn up and leaves taco. It cause stomata to run "wide open".
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
3rd Monkey said:
It likely burned the roots pretty good. Enough to keep going 2 weeks... that's a stretch.

K def, the stomata can't regulate properly, so the leaves canoe down as well as the tips. It's mobile so it steals from lower leaves.

K tox, it burns the edges up just like a def, but tips turn up and leaves taco. It cause stomata to run "wide open".
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Wouldn't a K tox. cause Ca and Mg deficiencies?

I guess a good test would be to flush out the hydroton and give plain water to see if it still progresses.

The problem being I still have 2 weeks at least to go and if it was indeed a K def it's going to get a lot worse
 
3rd Monkey

3rd Monkey

Well-Known Member
firsttimeARE said:
Wouldn't a K tox. cause Ca and Mg deficiencies?

I guess a good test would be to flush out the hydroton and give plain water to see if it still progresses.

The problem being I still have 2 weeks at least to go and if it was indeed a K def it's going to get a lot worse
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It can eventually, but doesn't always go straight there.

It is possible that the majority of the damage we are seeing is from the K burn, but since you've swapped your res it's now deficient.

So far though, in all your pics, it's a burn from too much though. Have a look see... even the better plant has that same K burn on the tips. It just took it better.
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
3rd Monkey said:
It can eventually, but doesn't always go straight there.

It is possible that the majority of the damage we are seeing is from the K burn, but since you've swapped your res it's now deficient.

So far though, in all your pics, it's a burn from too much though. Have a look see... even the better plant has that same K burn on the tips. It just took it better.
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IMG_20190912_064738.jpg
Another plant is doing this. This was the first plant that started showing struggles and it was doing this which I took as Mg deficiency but the more I read about K def is that this may be K def also.

This plant is much further along. It started showing interveinal chlorosis on the top fan leaves and the sugar leaves were turning yellow on some of the top colas. This leaf I just posted as fine when I did res change, but another leaf was doing the same thing. So it's spread since reducing the feed.

From now on clones only in a shared system like RDWC. Too many individual needs to meet to have one res.

All of these did get too big and are probably closer to the lights than they should be. But doesn't look like light burn.
 
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budsfordayz

budsfordayz

Well-Known Member
I would say salts too if you ruled out heat sinks in the tent.... It’s never normal for sugar leaves to look like that during flower. Only fans degrade unless you like you trichs mostly amber and go weeks over. Which is not the case here based on the hairs. But then again some mutations do wierd things. Atleast your almost done so you can ride it out ... if I were in your situation I would start my flush abit early and see what happens. Also leaves look like they have a lot of nitrogen stored possibly borderline tox . Could also be chronic over feeding leading to k lockout?

Goodluck either way I think ull finish good .
 
3rd Monkey

3rd Monkey

Well-Known Member
firsttimeARE said:
View attachment 4393294
Another plant is doing this. This was the first plant that started showing struggles and it was doing this which I took as Mg deficiency but the more I read about K def is that this may be K def also.

This plant is much further along. It started showing interveinal chlorosis on the top fan leaves and the sugar leaves were turning yellow on some of the top colas. This leaf I just posted as fine when I did res change, but another leaf was doing the same thing. So it's spread since reducing the feed.

From now on clones only in a shared system like RDWC. Too many individual needs to meet to have one res.

All of these did get too big and are probably closer to the lights than they should be. But doesn't look like light burn.
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If it was light burn, you'd have fried pistils. They seem ok.

I prefer individual buckets over RDWC, but it's just preference.

I don't run traditional hydro. I run my own method. I find it much easier to know what to feed and how much to bump. No ph'ing either.

Either way, the dark color of the leaves in that pic is reassuring me that you overdid K, or still are a bit. There are no signs of N tox, and P/K will darken leaves like that.
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
3rd Monkey said:
If it was light burn, you'd have fried pistils. They seem ok.

I prefer individual buckets over RDWC, but it's just preference.

I don't run traditional hydro. I run my own method. I find it much easier to know what to feed and how much to bump. No ph'ing either.

Either way, the dark color of the leaves in that pic is reassuring me that you overdid K, or still are a bit. There are no signs of N tox, and P/K will darken leaves like that.
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I did the individual buckets for like 6 years before I switched and would never go back. So much more easier. pH and EC doesn't swing as much. But it has its drawbacks where 5 of the 6 plants are ready and 1 is still kicking. Surprisingly the one that's still kicking looks worse off, which was why I was initially thinking a deficiency since this plant should still be feeding since it's still in bud packing mode and the others are just finishing off.

I do think light is an issue as all the dark star kush have foxtailed and keep putting off new pistils. 2 have hermed
 
3rd Monkey

3rd Monkey

Well-Known Member
firsttimeARE said:
I did the individual buckets for like 6 years before I switched and would never go back. So much more easier. pH and EC doesn't swing as much. But it has its drawbacks where 5 of the 6 plants are ready and 1 is still kicking. Surprisingly the one that's still kicking looks worse off, which was why I was initially thinking a deficiency since this plant should still be feeding since it's still in bud packing mode and the others are just finishing off.

I do think light is an issue as all the dark star kush have foxtailed and keep putting off new pistils. 2 have hermed
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I hope you get it figured out. I can't really help you much more at the moment. Firsthand view is always the better judge.

If you ever want to try an alternative hydro method, let me know. I run a different style and helps you balance nutes better, along with dialing in bumps to max without going over.
 
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