I didn't think of that. Good point. I will find some PVC square pipe instead and cut two pieces for each saucer. Will possibly change the saucers in the future.
Stunted growth - a repeating problem I can not solve.
- Thread starter plan500
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Actually I've just decided on a new path, will change the saucers with plastic ones and won't add elevators. With the new way of watering more and waiting for complete dry there will be a lot of runoff (through soil cracks) and I will be filling the saucer without the plant being able to absorb that. I will compensate with more side hole for aeration.
TheWholeTruth
Well-Known Member
If your plants are yellowing when your increasing the light strength your issue could be cal-mag. You might need to get a cal mag additive that is fast acting with led lights. I know not enough calcium for the plant requirements will lead to poor root growth, root tips dieing, leaf necrosis, slow growth ect so might be were your issue is.
get some air or fabric pots. Let the pots really dry out before you water them..they need to get really light. Watering a 10l pot would, on average, look like this: watering with 2-3l, every 3-5 days, depending on the DLI, size of plant and the pot. fabric pots dry out a ltlle faster. the pots that you have dry out a little slower. Could even be 6 days...they really need that totally-drying out-phase for fungus control and Oxygen Intake. It was my mainmistake in my first grow, i was watering to often, like every 2 days.
These pots are really not optimal, id change that before maintaining somethings as expensive and advanced as CO2-loop.
These pots are really not optimal, id change that before maintaining somethings as expensive and advanced as CO2-loop.
you cant overwater them with a single watering....youre supposed to water until the complete soil is soken wet...overwatering is if you never let the pot dry out completely and have constant water/high moisture in the pot.
So if you water 1l-1,5l every 2 days instead of 2-3l every 4 days, thats overwatering and will lead to all kind of stunted growth and root or leave symptoms, that can mimic all kind of issues and deficiencies.
i you have not feeling for that weight, next time just water them with 2.5l and then putem on the scale to see how many days it takes until these 2.5kgs are gone.
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tstick
Well-Known Member
My simple solution is to weigh the container with dry (or almost dry) soil and then weigh it again after it's saturated. I use a digital postal scale that I got on Amazon for ~$30 or so.
After watering, weigh the container intermittently until the weight starts to come into the dry range again.
This will give you a 100% accurate picture of how much water is in the container at any given time.
For example: Early in veg., when my 3 gallon grow bags are dry, they weigh 11.5 lbs. After I saturate them, their max weight is ~18.5 lbs. I know that a U.S. gallon weighs 8.33 lbs. so that tells me that my soil mix is able to hold a bit less than a gallon (7 lbs. to be exact). That gives me a general picture of what's going on with the amount of moisture in the container, at any given time, while the roots are developing. After awhile, when the root system is established, the plants will be a lot more forgiving and you will know the individual plant's needs by then.
Some people have good luck with sprouting the seed in its final container, but I like to do at least one transfer in container size so that I can apply some Mykos to the roots for a boost.
After watering, weigh the container intermittently until the weight starts to come into the dry range again.
This will give you a 100% accurate picture of how much water is in the container at any given time.
For example: Early in veg., when my 3 gallon grow bags are dry, they weigh 11.5 lbs. After I saturate them, their max weight is ~18.5 lbs. I know that a U.S. gallon weighs 8.33 lbs. so that tells me that my soil mix is able to hold a bit less than a gallon (7 lbs. to be exact). That gives me a general picture of what's going on with the amount of moisture in the container, at any given time, while the roots are developing. After awhile, when the root system is established, the plants will be a lot more forgiving and you will know the individual plant's needs by then.
Some people have good luck with sprouting the seed in its final container, but I like to do at least one transfer in container size so that I can apply some Mykos to the roots for a boost.
Northeastskier
Well-Known Member
Started a plant in a cheap $30 hydro box I got on Amazon, and grew it side by side with a plant in rockwool and soil.
The rock wool air pruned and had sufficient roots but the plant did not get vey large in my environment.
The hydro plant was later soil potted and the roots looked like a cooked 1/2 pound of spaghetti. The plant and the super roots out performed everything. The plant took to regen almost immediately.
Gen/Hydro 3 part
The rock wool air pruned and had sufficient roots but the plant did not get vey large in my environment.
The hydro plant was later soil potted and the roots looked like a cooked 1/2 pound of spaghetti. The plant and the super roots out performed everything. The plant took to regen almost immediately.
Gen/Hydro 3 part
Thanks for the advice,
Thanks for the info, I am already thinking in the direction. Those short wet/dry cycle I was doing seem to really be the issue here. For the moment I can not afford to change the pots but I will add some more holes on the sides as a compromise. I will also add some more perlite.
I am not so concerned about my ability to determine when the pot is light or heavy. I was just getting the whole dry/wet cycle concept wrong. Thanks for the info though!
yeah drill holes round the pots, especially in the lower half. And if you fill them with soil, maybe fill the 1st inch with small stones, clay, or some form of granulat for good drainage.
and in future get fabrics, theyre really cheap.
edit: youll see watering a totally dry pot is a little different...you have to start slow, water a few 100 ml, then wait 30-60min, continue.....otherwise the water just runs through
and in future get fabrics, theyre really cheap.
edit: youll see watering a totally dry pot is a little different...you have to start slow, water a few 100 ml, then wait 30-60min, continue.....otherwise the water just runs through
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Just wanted to shared the result of following your advices. Only two slow waterings with a liter, 3 days apart and plants started growing and showing great improvement. I knew I was missing somethings basic, but never thought that watering will be the key here. Next, I will slow water till a little runoff and keep that as a standard for more developed plants.
I am sending a few pics from the veg room. Flower room also has improvement, but the damage is done there and I will look forward to the next batch.
I really appreciate everyone's input and want to thank you all for the support. Hope this information helps others too!
PS. I have yet to change my saucers, punch more holes in the pots and add extra perlite to my next batch.
I am sending a few pics from the veg room. Flower room also has improvement, but the damage is done there and I will look forward to the next batch.
I really appreciate everyone's input and want to thank you all for the support. Hope this information helps others too!
PS. I have yet to change my saucers, punch more holes in the pots and add extra perlite to my next batch.
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Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
How much are you feeding them? From the first set of pictures it looks as if the soil because exhausted and you’re not feeding enough. Soil is fairly low in nutrients as it is. That’s why green veg yellow flower.
Glad you got the watering down, it’s a very important step which is often overlooked.
Glad you got the watering down, it’s a very important step which is often overlooked.
gottagrowsometime
New Member
Hi buddy. Nice to meet you. I'm a new grower on here. But am experienced enough. I'm on my 3rd grow now. I pull 70 average off autos. And only really getting proper into fems now but this is 1 of my girls on day 62 or so was flipped on day 45. The 1 on the right started out much bigger but I didn't uppot her like her sister on the left and I give her nothing put water and a bioenhancer feed from @GreenHouseFeeding and I treat the soil with their bioline grow & bloom. Try the kids method buddy. Took me 2 rounds of growing to get to that.
So, you have 1 issue. Why are you growing in a full light mix and using seaweed. You are starting the race by shooting yourself in the leg running with 100% light mix. You need to treat the soil to get proper nutrient uptake and a good breeding background going in your soil normally that takes weeks or months if you don't use jump starters like actual soil conditioners.. I use light mix biobizz and 40% all mix and my secret compost and triggers fungus reaction throughout my entire grow. I'm not bragging at all. But, by the time I get to my 6th I'll be using 100 my own nutrient mix. As you are using light mix. When you say preloaded with mineral nutrients.. so how long are you letting your soil sit. (It should be smelly. That's good soil and should look like this buddy. If you need help, with soil feel free to DM me. To get a good jump. Without waiting for weeks. You could use green House feeding. Dry powder additives. It'll help get fungus going. It does for me. And I only use a small bit. No nutrients through entire grow. Maybe some Epsom Salt for mag/sulphate and cal powder as my water is only 110ppm.
But, the crooks of it. You need to condition your soil. Or you may aswel grow in coco and have the benefits of adding nutrients aa you please without worrying about soil growing..as the whole point to use soil, is for the bactria beneficial side, or why bother?
So, in the future. Get some all mix. Do a mix. You adding minerals to light mix. (I've no idea what you are doing) and BTW, don't get hung up with roots growing on the outside.
Ppl only take them root shots when they don't uppot.. and don't understand the whole point of growing in soil. Is to have the roots on the inside not running up the Inside of your pot. So, when you uppot you make a root ball in the middle of your soil. My plants have very few roots on the outside. As they are all on the inside.
The Fungus is like that on all my plants. Even the ones without bioline, as I'm running autos on their mineral line (syntheic nutrients) and that is 3 nutrients in total from seed-harvest but if your water is less than 250ppm you will more than likely need calmag. (The fungus degrades over time)
But, that's just the type of conditior I add to mine. There's tons of soil additives out there. Or just a general all mix, open a bag wet it and let sit for 2 days. And you'll notice it start to smell. That's the goodness you are missing out on pal.
Plants in tent are from 55 days old and as young as 30 days. And all have benefit of live soil.. or if they weren't, I'd save myself a lot of hassle by running a coco..
Good luck pal. You can find me on GrowDiaries under same usernane
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Glad it helped. If your pot is empty, but your plantz still looks great-give it another day without watering. Very old saying. Even if youre a day too late and the plants droop a little, it doesnt hurt them, they will revover instantly after watering. Overwatering on the other hand does hurt them.
About that runoff water, yeah, if youre going mineral it might be a good idea, to water until you have a few 100ml runoff water, to avoid the buildup of salts at the bottom. With organic you dont really need that. 2-2,5l seems a good amount for 10l pot. Some say water with 30% of the volume, i feel like thats a little too much.
by the way, im also using only lightmix and got great results, even with only 50% of the recommendet organic fertilizer. Allthough im using Biobizz. So many people convinced their way is the best. Own experience is what sticks best. And common sense.
If your plants get huge or you have a long light cyvle, it might be needed to really water them every 2 days, but im sure youll figuere that out on your own now you understand the trick.
About that runoff water, yeah, if youre going mineral it might be a good idea, to water until you have a few 100ml runoff water, to avoid the buildup of salts at the bottom. With organic you dont really need that. 2-2,5l seems a good amount for 10l pot. Some say water with 30% of the volume, i feel like thats a little too much.
by the way, im also using only lightmix and got great results, even with only 50% of the recommendet organic fertilizer. Allthough im using Biobizz. So many people convinced their way is the best. Own experience is what sticks best. And common sense.
If your plants get huge or you have a long light cyvle, it might be needed to really water them every 2 days, but im sure youll figuere that out on your own now you understand the trick.
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Hi there,
Thanks for the input. I use Plagron lightmix which is preloaded with mineral food for about 1 week, just enough to starts the seedlings. Then from week too I start feeding with the Alga Grow organic nutrient which creates the organic environment without the need of extra "conditioners". Further down the road I might top dress with worm castings or even make a tea to support the microbial life. There are too many variables in your method to consider at the moment. I need to improve mine with just a few moves.
Basically the day I see a few plants that have started to wilt, I will water them just enough so they can wait until the next day, and give other plant an additional day to dry out. The next day I water all of them together till a little runoff. The run off is required just so that I know I have watered the entire pot, not so much so get rid of salt buildups. My pots are 9L filled with about 8L soil. So far I watered with 1L and they lasted 3days, but there was no runoff. Next I will water with 1.5L slowly and wait until runoff. I doubt I will need as much as 2-2.5L but will learn soon.
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
If peat gets too dry it becomes hydrophobic. So you get say 20% run off but that’s not going into the soil!
This often happens mid flower as the root mass is at its largest and at the sides of the pots. (Unless airpruned)
You’ll notice moist soil holds water more easily than dry.
Water in stages using a surfactant
my 3 gallon pots can take 2.8-3.0l water...runoff water might give you a wrong impression, if you dont make it right, because when the pot is dry, it takes really long for the water to really reach every spot in the pot. when i water it can take 3-4 hours...first i spray the surface until its wet, then i water 500ml, and then a little over a liter for watering 2 and 3. Sometimes 1 or 1,5 hours between. But i have they time and only a tiny tent.
The bigger the pot, the more days you have between watering. Might be worth it in your case, i imagine it can be pretty annoying in your case.
Watering fabric pots is much less pain. For that i think fabric pots really have the most advantages. Even if you could argue they dont have the same root-development as airpots.
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