Suggestions for correcting soil that has too much calcium?

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ChrispyCritter

Well-Known Member
So I reammended Coot's mix with Build a Soils reammendment mix, which includes oyster shell flower. I already had some crustacean shell mix and gypsum in the mix too. I used half last run and my plants had K lockout I tried to correct with Epsom salts but I wasn't sure what was happening so I didn't deal with it well. QUESTION: With the rest of my my soil how should I procede? I have langdenbeite to add. Should I also add compost or peat to cut the high percentage of calcium? Should I read the plants and water in Epsom salts? Thanks a lot in advance for your help.
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Im suspicions also of Ca tox,pH in my soil has risen over the last yr.I cooked up a new batch a while ago with less Ca inputs and am now mixing it 50/50 with the older soil.
Kelp,alfalfa and frass are now what I top dress with.Home made EWC also.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
ChrispyCritter said:
So I reammended Coot's mix with Build a Soils reammendment mix, which includes oyster shell flower. I already had some crustacean shell mix and gypsum in the mix too. I used half last run and my plants had K lockout I tried to correct with Epsom salts but I wasn't sure what was happening so I didn't deal with it well. QUESTION: With the rest of my my soil how should I procede? I have langdenbeite to add. Should I also add compost or peat to cut the high percentage of calcium? Should I read the plants and water in Epsom salts? Thanks a lot in advance for your help.
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I would cut the soil with compost and peat.
 
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ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
I doubt the soil is or was that out of whack. If you are growing water only the plant shouldn't take more than it needs. I would guess pH is off in the water and also the soil itself.
 
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ChrispyCritter

Well-Known Member
Thank you everyone for your help. I think I will add some peat and compost and ewc and keep an eye on my ph. I've never messed with my ph in soil but last run I was adding a fish hydrolyslate fert often and I know that can impact ph. My plants acted like I had locked out K so I think I will add some langbeneite via top dress anyway. I don't have much k in my mix. I'm just using some old mix now for my two plants but before I transplant into 7 gallon smart pots I will cut my reammended Coots mix a bit. thanks again!
 
2cent

2cent

Well-Known Member
what does ca tox look like ? i didnt think in organics the CA additions could get outa whack,
the oyster takes years to break down, and the crab a while,

i add both crab and oyster , i dont see any problems ? my compost is also CA rich that i add topdress
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
2cent said:
what does ca tox look like ? i didnt think in organics the CA additions could get outa whack,
the oyster takes years to break down, and the crab a while,

i add both crab and oyster , i dont see any problems ? my compost is also CA rich that i add topdress
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I don't think the OP was referring to a Ca toxicity but a deficiency of K due to an excess of Ca in the soil. The Op stated they added oyster shell powder, crustacean meal, and gypsum. That's how I interpreted their posts.


I did find this article interesting.

"Cations (positively charged nutrients) bind to the soil based on the cation strength, with calcium cation strength equal to magnesium and stronger than potassium. Therefore, large additions of calcium will displace potassium on the soils cation exchange capacity “bank” and can be leached by excess irrigation, rainfall, etc. "

"Prophylactic applications of calcium applied as lime or gypsum that are not based on soil test results could create deficiencies in other positively charged nutrients (cations), primarily magnesium and potassium. "

 
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ChrispyCritter

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the great info! My buds stopped growing. Upper leaves went brown. Everything looked like a combination of bad things and it may have been. I believe my soil was acidic from the liquid fish that I used too much of. I read an article saying how cannabis loves lots of calcium. I just way over did it. Not enough balance to my soil. My current grow is in the same soil but I cut with peat , ewc, and some compost. And I ditched the liquid fish. I'm super happy with my plants so far. I just flipped to flower Sunday. thanks for your help everyone.
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Few questions for you, if you don't mind.

What can you tell me about your water?


As you can see from above, K lockout happens at 7.5-8.0 pH.

While you do have a good amount of Ca amendments in the soil, I don't believe it should be enough to lockout K. In fact, to confirm this, if the problem was excess Ca then you would see Mg lockouts as well as K.

Since your only lockout is K, this leads me to believe the issue is too much pH buffer (excess Oyster Shell Flour), but it is most likely your water.

Something is causing you to experience 7.5-8.0 pH in your soil; my guess is that your water's pH is too alkaline, and your water combined with the OSF is resulting in the 7.5-8.0 pH you're experiencing.

One thing about the BAS Craft blends they do not specify is this: it is designed for RO water. Most common issues people have with BAS blends in my experience is from not using RO water. Not that one needs RO water to succeed, just that BAS blends are designed around RO water.

My best guess is that the issue is with your water buffering your soil's pH to the 7.5-8.0 range. What is the pH of your water? Well or city water?

All the best.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
"Cations (positively charged nutrients) bind to the soil based on the cation strength, with calcium cation strength equal to magnesium and stronger than potassium. Therefore, large additions of calcium will displace potassium on the soils cation exchange capacity “bank” and can be leached by excess irrigation, rainfall, etc. "

"Prophylactic applications of calcium applied as lime or gypsum that are not based on soil test results could create deficiencies in other positively charged nutrients (cations), primarily magnesium and potassium. "
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very interesting quote in that it confirms what other sources generally say about Potassium being more easy for the plant to mobilize, but is also more easy to be washed out. Unlike, e.g. Phosphorus which engages into strong atomic bonds.

But important to note that in indoor there may not be "rain" (except drain) so if the K got replaced by Ca it should actually still be solved in the water and the roots may have even a better access to it.
I think K is one of the macronutes that can be leeched out (mobilized & uptaken by the plant) of the substrates somewhat quicker than many other essentials.
 
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ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Using Neptunes Harvest as an example, they sell 2 popular products.

The seaweed fert is 0 0 1 and uses Potassium hydroxide to extract and stabilize. I found that in flower this is an almost exact sub for pH down! And offers a lot more than just the down. I use it now as my pH down during flower.

The fish fert is stabilized with phosphoric acid (pH down). Although I have not checked the ph of this as closely as the seaweed, I assume it has a similar if not stronger amount of down to stabilize all the nutes.

Since OP was not monitoring pH but WAS adding fish fert, I think it is almost for sure that it lowered the pH too far.

That was my original reasoning for my post earlier.
 
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ChrispyCritter

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
Few questions for you, if you don't mind.

What can you tell me about your water?


As you can see from above, K lockout happens at 7.5-8.0 pH.

While you do have a good amount of Ca amendments in the soil, I don't believe it should be enough to lockout K. In fact, to confirm this, if the problem was excess Ca then you would see Mg lockouts as well as K.

Since your only lockout is K, this leads me to believe the issue is too much pH buffer (excess Oyster Shell Flour), but it is most likely your water.

Something is causing you to experience 7.5-8.0 pH in your soil; my guess is that your water's pH is too alkaline, and your water combined with the OSF is resulting in the 7.5-8.0 pH you're experiencing.

One thing about the BAS Craft blends they do not specify is this: it is designed for RO water. Most common issues people have with BAS blends in my experience is from not using RO water. Not that one needs RO water to succeed, just that BAS blends are designed around RO water.

My best guess is that the issue is with your water buffering your soil's pH to the 7.5-8.0 range. What is the pH of your water? Well or city water?

All the best.
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Thanks so much for your response. My water is RO so 7.0. I really used fish fert ... A veg version and a flower version both by the makers of Tribus. I used it often not thinking about how the soil would be affected. So I agree that my ph was very acidic. This would also contribute to the K lockout I suspect. Combined with all of my calcium inputs it was disaster after the 5th or 6 th week of flower. I do agree a soil test would provide clarity. When one gets a test done do you have to say what you are growing? Thanks again for your input and your response. I Really appreciate you taking time to help. Have a great day!
 
Funkentelechy

Funkentelechy

Well-Known Member
ChrispyCritter said:
When one gets a test done do you have to say what you are growing?
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I don't think you have to say what you are growing necessarily. But, if the testing facility does require that you state what crop you are growing you could simply list a crop with similar needs, like tomatoes for example. The results of your test will be the same regardless of what you tell them you are growing, the only reason they ask is so they can give you some target numbers to compare to your results.
If you are concerned don't list cannabis and/or maybe seek out testing facilities that are known to work with pot growers. I used Crop Services International www.cropservicesintl.com. They have an article on their site about the importance and the increase of demand for soil testing for folks who are growing medical and recreational pot so I figured they were cool. Not that it matters to me if they are cool with cannabis since I live in a legal state, but to me, it shows a willingness to be objective in their assessment of my soil needs. But, there are many other testing facilities that are friendly to our hobby as well I'm sure.
I told them that I was growing Cannabis since I live in a legal state and I only grow for personal consumption. I could share the target values that I was provided if you'd like.
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
Funkentelechy said:
I don't think you have to say what you are growing necessarily. But, if the testing facility does require that you state what crop you are growing you could simply list a crop with similar needs, like tomatoes for example. The results of your test will be the same regardless of what you tell them you are growing, the only reason they ask is so they can give you some target numbers to compare to your results.
If you are concerned don't list cannabis and/or maybe seek out testing facilities that are known to work with pot growers. I used Crop Services International www.cropservicesintl.com. They have an article on their site about the importance and the increase of demand for soil testing for folks who are growing medical and recreational pot so I figured they were cool. Not that it matters to me if they are cool with cannabis since I live in a legal state, but to me, it shows a willingness to be objective in their assessment of my soil needs. But, there are many other testing facilities that are friendly to our hobby as well I'm sure.
I told them that I was growing Cannabis since I live in a legal state and I only grow for personal consumption. I could share the target values that I was provided if you'd like.
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The only reason they ask is because the results reflect the soils value and target range of the species crop in question. They could care less the legality of the plants grown.
 
2cent

2cent

Well-Known Member
i add both too, i added crab .. do i need to add oyster stil ? normlay do but dont wana over do it now ..
 
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