okay so ive been posting a good bit about this and im back with another consideration.........I want to dig a big hole around 16x18 and put a 12x14 sized room inside. this room needs to be waterproof to prevent humidity and mold AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, just enough to not seap through I understand there will be some moisture(that's where dehumidifier comes in) room will have many layers of waterproofing materials, epoxys, seals, roofing, tileing, etc on the outside sealed all the way to prevent water from entering as much as possible. (then the extra space filled in with dirt).........but I found out this will not be enough to keep water and mold out so underneath the foundation, I will also install a sump pump in the very center of the hole and run it through pvc far away from the grow room hole, so most of the excess water will be drained away from the hole........on top of this a powerful dehumidifier will be ran in the room (and yes there will be venting)...........so what are anybodys thoughts on this? should it work good enough to prevent a lot of mold and most moisture? how to use the sump pump most effectively? anything else I should know?..........please do not comment if your going to bring up some totally irrelevant point about my idea, I promise its been brought up to me before and its being considered. I did not include every little portion of my plan because it would become a book(as if not long enough already)........oh and sorry for the long paragraph it wont let me break to the next line for some reason, look at the dotdotdots at a break in the paragraph.
sump pump + dehumidifier + waterproof room design to prevent h&m for underground g.r?
- Thread starter dylan843
- Start date
I saw. What did you do to waterproof your room? I don't want to use concrete anymore I feel as tjough its unnessesary. What do you think of my plan?
justugh
Well-Known Member
the water proofing a room is a true bitch of a job
at this point it sounds like u have something big and money to back
first off u need to go out rent a power paintsprayer and grab several buckets of rhino truck liner (it is like rubber with sand ) this shit is great ........spray the outside of the area i mean a good coat all over everywhere .................this will help prevent it attaching to the grow box outside.........now u combines this with doses of anti molds now and then
finally the most important part............sounds if u are under ground buried i been doing work on this for someone else local the best way to help controll this isuse is with postive pressure air .................your air intake system for the room needs to be a beast something long the lines of filtering out all crap combined with a UV light .........this will be clean fressh air completely sterized so aslong as u keep that pressure high it will keep all the bad stuff out (when u enter it u need to take great care about shoes and other thing coming in contact with mold spores
think tech clean room /bio lab air filtering system and postive pressure routines
the even better news since u are doing a intake system like this it would be a good time to combine it with a CO2 tank system (rem during light u want CO2 during dark u want Oxygen) and 1500ppm CO2 is deadly to humans so if u are going in the tent make sure u reduce it and spend as little time in there as can if get light headed u leave go out side and sit
at this point it sounds like u have something big and money to back
first off u need to go out rent a power paintsprayer and grab several buckets of rhino truck liner (it is like rubber with sand ) this shit is great ........spray the outside of the area i mean a good coat all over everywhere .................this will help prevent it attaching to the grow box outside.........now u combines this with doses of anti molds now and then
finally the most important part............sounds if u are under ground buried i been doing work on this for someone else local the best way to help controll this isuse is with postive pressure air .................your air intake system for the room needs to be a beast something long the lines of filtering out all crap combined with a UV light .........this will be clean fressh air completely sterized so aslong as u keep that pressure high it will keep all the bad stuff out (when u enter it u need to take great care about shoes and other thing coming in contact with mold spores
think tech clean room /bio lab air filtering system and postive pressure routines
the even better news since u are doing a intake system like this it would be a good time to combine it with a CO2 tank system (rem during light u want CO2 during dark u want Oxygen) and 1500ppm CO2 is deadly to humans so if u are going in the tent make sure u reduce it and spend as little time in there as can if get light headed u leave go out side and sit
First I am coating all parts of all wood (treated) with wood protector stain. And using polyurothane sealant and joint compound. Then using epoxy and staples ill attatch building paper, then layer of roofing tar and lastly roofing sheet....then on the outside a waterproof membrane. I really like this one combo package air barrier water moisture sealant I found at a local company that speicalises. But I will look into the truck liner stuff as another option
Thanks for the ventilation tip I will use heavy heavy duty ventilation. Heat sigs shouldn't be a prob cause I'm using led lights.
As for the co2 I think I am going to just let the fresh air handle them.
Any advice on the sump pump set up? How I could use effectivly in soil situation
justugh
Well-Known Member
well for the stil site
the best would to be grade the flooring so it runs off to one coner and from there have a pit then u can do the sump pump or u can drive holes into the pit like 30 40 feet deep(well digging rig ) and the water will fill into that and go into the ground water system
the holes are the best option just keep the pit covered and now and then tho in some lime and other killer things and close it back up ..................if the water builds up it fills those holes and pit faster then drains into the ground then the sump pump is your only choice
when u are laying the footings to the subfloor u need to make sure u leave some room to get under the floor area later ................if u leave it high enough u could use a heater system to help remove the dampness from the air and dry the whole place out
we laied out a drain system for the room that dumps into the pit (it might work good if u do hydro)
the best would to be grade the flooring so it runs off to one coner and from there have a pit then u can do the sump pump or u can drive holes into the pit like 30 40 feet deep(well digging rig ) and the water will fill into that and go into the ground water system
the holes are the best option just keep the pit covered and now and then tho in some lime and other killer things and close it back up ..................if the water builds up it fills those holes and pit faster then drains into the ground then the sump pump is your only choice
when u are laying the footings to the subfloor u need to make sure u leave some room to get under the floor area later ................if u leave it high enough u could use a heater system to help remove the dampness from the air and dry the whole place out
we laied out a drain system for the room that dumps into the pit (it might work good if u do hydro)
justugh
Well-Known Member
oh as for heat
3 feet under the soil u are undectable (like 18 inchs) by ir camreas ............6 feet u are undectable by dogs
the sure fire way to make sure u are IR blocked is to mylar the ceilling...........u want to run from a ir camrea just wear a heavy jacket(talking big puffy jacket) it shows up as outside air temp since all your body heat is contained
as for the intake u got nothing to worry about ...................it is the exhust system ................the best way is to defuse it u are running a 10 inch exhust u need to split it then again and at the end points u make it flat and lvl like platpus tails............................u are still pushing the same amount of air out but the ejection points have been spread out so it does not look like one massive heat image on the screens
to do it completely right look into a Ozone gen for the exhust system it will kill the smell of weed and anything else that u are sending out so dogs would not hit on the venting points
(from my buddy the best way to vent is to use a lawn thing (u know ppl have gaint stone frogs) u hollow it out then drill holes in it ) he does it with a bird bath in his garden adding in some speical mess with doggy plants around it ........u can do the same with some wild thorns bushes
3 feet under the soil u are undectable (like 18 inchs) by ir camreas ............6 feet u are undectable by dogs
the sure fire way to make sure u are IR blocked is to mylar the ceilling...........u want to run from a ir camrea just wear a heavy jacket(talking big puffy jacket) it shows up as outside air temp since all your body heat is contained
as for the intake u got nothing to worry about ...................it is the exhust system ................the best way is to defuse it u are running a 10 inch exhust u need to split it then again and at the end points u make it flat and lvl like platpus tails............................u are still pushing the same amount of air out but the ejection points have been spread out so it does not look like one massive heat image on the screens
to do it completely right look into a Ozone gen for the exhust system it will kill the smell of weed and anything else that u are sending out so dogs would not hit on the venting points
(from my buddy the best way to vent is to use a lawn thing (u know ppl have gaint stone frogs) u hollow it out then drill holes in it ) he does it with a bird bath in his garden adding in some speical mess with doggy plants around it ........u can do the same with some wild thorns bushes
I don't think you understand, once my hole is dug I'm going to build it fully then fill all the sides and top with dirt so its just surrounded by dirt. If I did the sump pump the suction end would just have to be suspended in the dirt somewhere (or multiple places?) Also I am planning to buy a greenhouse a put it over the room on the top of the soil of course. Which would stop most of the rain from hitting the soil so most the soil surrounding the room will be dry. So the sump pump isn't really needed much I want to somehow to sense the soil is too wet and start sucking it out is that possible?
As for running the exaust I will somehow run the ducts under a heater ill put in the greenhouse. Will only be needed in the greenhouse in winter, will only be needed to hide exaust heat in winter. The grow room will be needed to keep at a maintained temp all year but in the summer it will be hotter outside then in my room
I plan on doing legit gardening in this greenhouse as sort of a cover up.
As for the 6ft rule I'm definately making it 6 foot deep now. The exaust shouldn't be a smell problem with me attaching a carbon filter.
And lastly as for the milar, inside my waterproof room I am putting a store purchased 600dwhatever grow room that is coated in milar. But even around the edges of the outer room I'm also going to be another layer of the milar. Also I found the ir blocking attachments for the ends of vent ducts that I'm also gunna use.
justugh
Well-Known Member
the room that goes in needs to be placed on footers so the wood is not in contact with the ground .............the ground under it the same thing applies u will have to grade it so it pools up somewhere to remove it ...........the wood and the ground needs to have a good 4 to 6 inches off it .........the beams are sitting on concert blocks then the floor goes in then walls and u can back fill the walls but under it has to have room (no matter what u do if it is touching the floor u will have trouble
the right way to do this then would be to grade the floor so it goes to the center then dig a bit of a pit so it pools up add the pump point out then fill that lower area with gravel ........the footers then that 4 to 6 inches of space from the top of the gravel to the bottom of the beam they do not want to be touching (metal too what u have done will last longer and less troubles)
as for the IR ..............it is simple anything that blocks heat/retains heat will mess with those so u do not need to go all fancey money spend insulted ducting is just as good as the other stuff (18inches of soil then pop right up into green house and it is covered .........u will need away to get into the place so that is a manhole system and ladder with a pullie system for gear water and removing crops)
the 6 foot is the amount of dirt u need to block the dog (why bodies are buried 6 feet in the good lowest depth animals will not start digging up) ..............so say u want a 6 foot room u have to go 12 feet down well 13 feet then u can do gravel and pit and pump and still have your 6 foot of dirt above
the room that low will be a permit 68 degrees natural then the air flow from outside will vary it
crap that is the answer for u build a bomb shelter and then put the enter method in the green house (just instead of beds food and all that make it a grow lab) ................u can buy that and rent a back hoe bury it
the right way to do this then would be to grade the floor so it goes to the center then dig a bit of a pit so it pools up add the pump point out then fill that lower area with gravel ........the footers then that 4 to 6 inches of space from the top of the gravel to the bottom of the beam they do not want to be touching (metal too what u have done will last longer and less troubles)
as for the IR ..............it is simple anything that blocks heat/retains heat will mess with those so u do not need to go all fancey money spend insulted ducting is just as good as the other stuff (18inches of soil then pop right up into green house and it is covered .........u will need away to get into the place so that is a manhole system and ladder with a pullie system for gear water and removing crops)
the 6 foot is the amount of dirt u need to block the dog (why bodies are buried 6 feet in the good lowest depth animals will not start digging up) ..............so say u want a 6 foot room u have to go 12 feet down well 13 feet then u can do gravel and pit and pump and still have your 6 foot of dirt above
the room that low will be a permit 68 degrees natural then the air flow from outside will vary it
crap that is the answer for u build a bomb shelter and then put the enter method in the green house (just instead of beds food and all that make it a grow lab) ................u can buy that and rent a back hoe bury it
I get what your saying Bout the sump pump now. As far as entering and leaving the I will have a big tube thing with a lid that goes up to about 2 feet underground, then down in there I go to the roof of the dweelling where there is a very well sealed trap door.
Thank you for your help
Thank you for your help
How about pvc pipe coming thru the floor into a container to collect the water? Sealed back of course
justugh
Well-Known Member
well it just has to be a hole in the floor of the box .........with that 6 inch gap then the gravel and then soil and the pit
with u running a possive pressure in the grow area that hole will allow the air to put positve pressure on the dirt and the gravel below the room and will make the pump work more effectily and help keep water from seeping into the void as fast (this is a mining trick) u see a pressurized door in a mine the other side air pressure is much higher to keep the water from willing the tunnels and to help pumps pull the water out (with a possive pressure pushing down on the water the pumps can suck greater distances ) it increase the life of the pump and over all volume it can get out
oh i was doing some work on CO2 gas u really should include a monitoring system for this in your area (co2 gas is heavier then air so it will sink ) your room should get somewhere around 400 600 ppm naturally at that depth ...............so just watch that and i got little envy on u
we only cut a hill out then backed in a shipping container dropped it and been modifing it as we go ..............just stil
with u running a possive pressure in the grow area that hole will allow the air to put positve pressure on the dirt and the gravel below the room and will make the pump work more effectily and help keep water from seeping into the void as fast (this is a mining trick) u see a pressurized door in a mine the other side air pressure is much higher to keep the water from willing the tunnels and to help pumps pull the water out (with a possive pressure pushing down on the water the pumps can suck greater distances ) it increase the life of the pump and over all volume it can get out
oh i was doing some work on CO2 gas u really should include a monitoring system for this in your area (co2 gas is heavier then air so it will sink ) your room should get somewhere around 400 600 ppm naturally at that depth ...............so just watch that and i got little envy on u
we only cut a hill out then backed in a shipping container dropped it and been modifing it as we go ..............just stil
puppetstring
Member
just want to point out this is false, if this were true we'd be finding a lot more dead bodies in grow rooms...
straight from wiki:
CO[SUB]2[/SUB] is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy.[SUP][79][/SUP] Concentrations of 7% to 10% may cause suffocation, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.[SUP][81][/SUP]
I'm sorry I'm a little confused so your saying don't seal the hole the pvc pipe is going thruso the air of the grow room can push down out of the crevaces of the hole?
justugh
Well-Known Member
the air coming in is fast and strong (plus all cleaned ).............a water proof room means air tight
so your exhust system can just be a set of ducting going out .......u apply dampner to this decreaseing the amount going out compared to the amount comming in as u do the pressure builds
with out a hole/pipe tho the floor to allow a alternatate path of excape to the air pressure and this will push down on the water in the pit with the sump pump along with push on the water in the soil to decrease the rate and over all amount that comes in
the walls are backfilled and u are 6 feet down they are sealed on the side and above ........this just pass the air pressure to below where u have that 6 inch void and gravel with the pit to the sump pump(they sell a automatic system as pit fills lvl goes up it kicks on and pumps until the lvl is below start point u marked)the smaller the pit the more it goes on..... use a screen system and a pump with back blow to clean it ............the air is not going to move out (not return from the hole) it is going to pushing into the soil below and on the sides of the box as it works way to equal pressure
u do not need to make a air path ........i only said something since it increases the pumps life and power and reduces the intake of water
with it door closed the pressure high so there is no way for a updraft to carry in anything bad
and as u open the door the pipe/hole add a backflow dampner.....or just a strait electrical dampner open and close it as u leave
the last choice i can offer is a piping system u make the hole in the roof run the line along your way in add in a shut off value then run a pipe to the void under with the pit .........shut it off as u enter.......turn it back on when u leave it will keep anything from backdrafing in and will increase the life of it adding a air barrier pussing on the water coming in
ok when u back fill the top go half way up grade it so u have a dome and then lay a tarp so when the water seeps down hits that and rolls off to the sides and seeps lower into table (figured u thought of this but incase not i said something)
so your exhust system can just be a set of ducting going out .......u apply dampner to this decreaseing the amount going out compared to the amount comming in as u do the pressure builds
with out a hole/pipe tho the floor to allow a alternatate path of excape to the air pressure and this will push down on the water in the pit with the sump pump along with push on the water in the soil to decrease the rate and over all amount that comes in
the walls are backfilled and u are 6 feet down they are sealed on the side and above ........this just pass the air pressure to below where u have that 6 inch void and gravel with the pit to the sump pump(they sell a automatic system as pit fills lvl goes up it kicks on and pumps until the lvl is below start point u marked)the smaller the pit the more it goes on..... use a screen system and a pump with back blow to clean it ............the air is not going to move out (not return from the hole) it is going to pushing into the soil below and on the sides of the box as it works way to equal pressure
u do not need to make a air path ........i only said something since it increases the pumps life and power and reduces the intake of water
with it door closed the pressure high so there is no way for a updraft to carry in anything bad
and as u open the door the pipe/hole add a backflow dampner.....or just a strait electrical dampner open and close it as u leave
the last choice i can offer is a piping system u make the hole in the roof run the line along your way in add in a shut off value then run a pipe to the void under with the pit .........shut it off as u enter.......turn it back on when u leave it will keep anything from backdrafing in and will increase the life of it adding a air barrier pussing on the water coming in
ok when u back fill the top go half way up grade it so u have a dome and then lay a tarp so when the water seeps down hits that and rolls off to the sides and seeps lower into table (figured u thought of this but incase not i said something)
Well I want the pvc pipe to be carring water thru it...if I seal the hole around the pvc pipe comin up thru the floor, will it still get this good air pressure you say will help? Or a better idea to leave the hole unsealed? Maybe better idea to leave the hole open and able to be enough to ~equal the cfm of my exaust?
justugh
Well-Known Member
u are going to dump water into the pit and allow the sump pump to carry it away
seal the drain hole and use silcone or caulking that is made to fight mold and all that .......u want a p trap to keep anything u dump from coming back up and after u dump something send half gallon of fresh water after to clean trap .....and u are golden
make a secondary hole only needs to be maybe 1 1/2 inch pipe /hole .............u want to keep the intake higher then your exhust always (when it is equal backflow can happen and mold will show up) ............this hole u want to keep all water and everything away from it is just air
the air pressure always helps ...........check clean rooms/deep mining/bio labs/hospitals ...........with u pumping in cleaned air and keeping the pressusre higher then the outside it means any leaks or drafts will always be blowing out so nothing can enter the air is clean so no mold in that so your room is controlled as for humity the ac/heating of the intake and cleaning it should keep it a steady 50% the whole time
seal the drain hole and use silcone or caulking that is made to fight mold and all that .......u want a p trap to keep anything u dump from coming back up and after u dump something send half gallon of fresh water after to clean trap .....and u are golden
make a secondary hole only needs to be maybe 1 1/2 inch pipe /hole .............u want to keep the intake higher then your exhust always (when it is equal backflow can happen and mold will show up) ............this hole u want to keep all water and everything away from it is just air
the air pressure always helps ...........check clean rooms/deep mining/bio labs/hospitals ...........with u pumping in cleaned air and keeping the pressusre higher then the outside it means any leaks or drafts will always be blowing out so nothing can enter the air is clean so no mold in that so your room is controlled as for humity the ac/heating of the intake and cleaning it should keep it a steady 50% the whole time
Ah ok tell me if I've got it. I'm first going to dig elevated trenches (outside of the floor at a slope with trenches in it leading to the big pit in the center) then the sump pump is placed in that hole with the water level activation valve and the output water of the pump should be ran away from the room. (Can I leave the output end underground?) then the foundation, then gravel, (leaving 4 in before the room) Then in the floor I need a inch and a half hole for air to come in and created pressure on the water. Then put another hole that is sealed with a drainage system to dump any unneeded water?
Another question about the 6ft dog thing...
If I have a sealed trapdoor, could I put some big metal tube with a ladder and asealable lid on top of trap door so I only have to dig a couple of feet...or will this totally negate the whole 6ft under dog smelling rule If their nose has a access point only 2ft under dirt with 4feet of sealed air? Don't want to have to dig 6ft to door every entry, but if it'd nessesary to be dog proof ill do it. And ill Develop some strong sholders in the process.
If I have a sealed trapdoor, could I put some big metal tube with a ladder and asealable lid on top of trap door so I only have to dig a couple of feet...or will this totally negate the whole 6ft under dog smelling rule If their nose has a access point only 2ft under dirt with 4feet of sealed air? Don't want to have to dig 6ft to door every entry, but if it'd nessesary to be dog proof ill do it. And ill Develop some strong sholders in the process.