sump pump + dehumidifier + waterproof room design to prevent h&m for underground g.r?

If I encase the room (and floor) in concrete.. will there even be a need all that under the foundation? (Trenches, water pit, sump pump, and gravel)

Also, how much weight will this 12x14 room made of solid concrete (lets say 8 inches) be able to hold up (pretending theres no wood frame. If possible I'd like to be able to do this with out walls, and maybe make some concrete support beams in the center

dylan843 said:

Bump? Comon justugh don't give up on me now!

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i am not just had to do a clipping on a plant(timber time for one of my autos next one in 3 days) and some looking up on other subjec matters

the gravel on the ground and a littpe pit with pump works ....................... the rebar is correct too but here is the fun part if u place it flooring and the walls and the top then just cut a section in the top for the way in this would make a very strong sub room and flooring for the green house

u can infact buy pre made sections of rebar wall and form the cage yourself

after u have made the room the inside needs to be cleaned coated and sealed ...............this will keep it from speeing water in and make a good work area (as u are going to seal the walls u can seal it then lay wallpaper glue and hang maylar sheeting) huge reflective walls from the start ...............given it is this big under there u want to have the pipes and all that going tho a pipe in the concret so if u ever have to work on it not taring up the whole wall to get to section

the common thing to do is have it on the side near the path in and out so u can access it there

here i will do a quick thing .

give me the siize of the area u are going for under and up top and i will spend little time make up a pic of some plans my head has and u can modify it

they will just be simple drawlings on note book paper that i scan so not like pro work

i am thinking a old style glass house with a rail system on the center that allows u to move 50 lb bags of stuff easy but acts as a pull point for getting stuff in and out of room

the way in is under the compost pile a 4x4 sliding system using a 150 lb magnet to move a latch so it slides

as for the ducting in and out that still tring to hide but the idea would mean one wall in the place is concret too but that could be the key ..............that wall has the venting unit and power supply/water supply for the green house ........in there u could have a ducting feeding down to the room and on the other side 2 smaller vent points going back into green house ............the power down into it is easy put in a second breaker pannel ..as for the water in that is just simple plumbing .......your dran system out tho that will have to be a collection point (like a barrel ) and a pump system up and out ....................any plant materal would have to be moved up and out the way u get in

http://www.ehow.com/how_12182387_set-rebar-concrete-basement-wall.html

and

http://www.wikihow.com/Tie-Rebar

do it yourselfer

http://www.menofsteelrebar.com/preassem_cages.html

Thats alright man thought u dissapered on me! Doing some trimming mymyself on my outdoor plants of this season.

Well if I can make a solid concrete subfloor I don't want to mess with any pump or drainage I'd rather just use a hand pump to collect dirty water and carry out in 5 gal buckets w lids

I want the top of the roof to be 3 feet under the greenhouse. On top of this mylar will be used. As far as no floor for the greenhouse that's okay I'd rather it be a dirt floor with the "dirt tray" to access the slab door (also gunna coat tunnel In mylar, better safe than sorry)

As for the room size I'd like for it to be 12x14x8.

As for ducting I think pipes are a good idea for the concrete I will def do that.

Also I read a little guide on how to do this and it was a little complicated so in your plans, dumb it down a little for me lol.

OK, lets estimate how much concrete and gravel you need.
Have a look at this thickened slab detail:

http://www.drawings911.com/product_images/m/footingmono_12__52585.jpg

The edges of your floor pad need to be 16”x16” for your 8” block. This is the footer. It needs to support the walls, roof/ceiling and 25 tons of dirt above (if only 3’ below the surface) plus the weight of the greenhouse and whatever else is above. Using this calculator (EDIT: http://www.concrete.com/calculators/concrete-materials-calculators) I’ve estimated the footer needs 4.4 cu yds. The pad (16x18 to allow for a 12x14 interior) only needs to be 4” thick cause its not supporting much. You only need 3.5 cu yds for the pad. So for the footer and the pad you need nearly 8 cu yds. A concrete truck holds between 8-9 yards. You can pour the footer and pad in one shot. Also you need an equal about of 2B gravel under all concrete. So 8 cu yds of gravel. One cu yd of gravel weighs over 3000lbs. You’ll need to clear a road for your stone, concrete and block deliveries.

This is just the footer and floor slab. You’ll probably need another 8 yards of concrete for the ceiling slab. No gravel for this though, you set corrugated steel pan on top of your block walls and this supports the ceiling slab. Honestly I cant say with any certainty that a 6” ceiling slab wont cave in. You’ll probably need some lolly columns in the middle of the room. This is why you need an engineer.

Youll probably need another gravel delivery and concrete truck for the tunnel too. So all in all 3 pours. You have to wait 28 days before building anything on the concrete unless you get high early strength concrete. The average price of concrete is $125 per yard delivered. Its way more if you buy it by the bag from lowes and its not really practical for a job this big. So 24 yards of concrete you’re talking $3,000. This doesn’t include your gravel, rebar, corrugated steel pan or welded wire mesh. Don’t forget all the wood for formwork. 8” Concrete block, mortar, and rebar and grout for the cores (gives lateral strength so the wall doesn’t collapse when you back fill dirt against it) over $2,000.
This whole build will easily cost over 10 grand in materials alone. Doing all the work yourself, it will take months. If I were building this for a customer I’d tell them right off the bat you’re looking at $30,000 and 3 months with a crew of 6 guys.

Reinforcing a shipping container would be much easier and cheaper. But youll need to rent a crane to place it. With a project this big, I can absolutely guarantee the building inspector or perhaps even OSHA will come by. Silly question, but do you own the land where this project is going?

ok this is easy

the back wall is concrete ........or cinder block .................this wall will go all the way to the bottom of the thing (this wall will have ducting....power....water)
the upper part (this is the back of the greenhouse) u will have a pannel for the power in the green house and the water hook ups and the venting (make a spot in the wall and slot it for the unit)
in this spot u will then run it down to the lower room (in this grow room have a pannel for power....sink for water) and the venting will come come from this wall

this is just rough.......i did not lay the path ways u have too ............u want the wall to be whole/soild so it incases the pipes wires and venting duct




u want the intake vents to be low to the ground say u are pumping in with a 12 inch fan run a 12 in line half way down and then spilt it to 2 6 inch lines and have that be the same lenght to the vent point


on the back wall u make the exhust point 2 of them 4 inch pipes that go to green house (when u are making tables u incase it with wood but u leave the back part slotted so the air excapes ) to ppl looks like a table

the rest of it u got right ................but honestly u do not need that much dirt with it under the green house just need to make the roof of it/base of green house 8 to 12 inches of concrete with rebar and the correct cure time ....................the green house itself is a huge IR singal heat is caputed and excapes all the time that is not a reason to look at u ................if anything they will stop by with a dog and have it sniff area around your yard if he barks then they will go and check it

but adding that dog replentten stuff and putting a sign up stops that


here is the most important do not get caught tip for stil and weed growing ........................u burn all your trash clipped leaves stems anything that is not saved and could get in shit u burn it .............roots u have nothing to worry about they can not idea those

if u can not burn it then u gather it all up in a bag and make sure it has nothing personal and drive to a micky d's at 2 am and throw it away in the dumpster the day before trash pick up


check with a artatech about that size u might need a collum in the room to hold it up ........or a i beam

Ok since I am gunna have the greenhouse over top I'm only going tovhave the cement roof around a foot from the ground. Also I'm only going to make the room 8x10 (or something close). This 12x14 is just to much.

Understand I gotta lay the gravel still.

Also I think I am going to put a concrete beam in the middle just to be save. What ima do is pre building all the walls with the bricks and rebarb, then cut out a peice of the corregated steel where I can put a pre beam. Then using plywood to make the ceilings boundrys, ill start filling in all the walls, the beam, and the roof at one time (one long time I should say)

Vents like justugh said, using that concrete sealer stuff to seal the intake and exaust holes. Also pvc pipe for cords.

As for all the water, all done by 5 gallon buckets with lids. A hose (ran from my house) and ro filter will be in the greenhouse so just gotta fill them up and bring them in.

One electricity question...will the breaker for the greenhouse need to be coonected to main home breaker...or could it be spliced over from existing romex in my basement? Its like a 15amp 120v connection and all we are usong on it is a outlet and 1 light bumb . The extra electricity from the circit will be plenty for the grow room, then I can do a separate breaker more legitly to the grow room.

i was project forman and contractor on a few 5+ million dollar homes,most built on the sides of mountians up in gatlinburg,i believe there is cheaper safer way to do this project you planing,as 3 sides of 2 of those houses was close to 30 feet under ground, 5 story houses,its called smart block,its very easy to work with and works beautifully under ground,the blocks are stacked and filled with concret,the styrofoam helps insulate and can be very easyily water proofed

i also built safe rooms in 2 of those houses,useing this system,worked beautifully,for a totally sealed air tight room

Yes I am going to use these. Home depot selling a package of these smartblocks big enough for my use for 400 bucks. These are 10in thick with 5.75in of clncrete. The floor and roof I am going to make 8in just concrete slab thick. Still decideing on how to do the beam. Lowes quikcrete concrete to make .6 cubic feet is 3.95 each. Did the math that's 2270 $ in concrete and the block package is like 400. Then all I will need is the wood tto build the frame...~$200...and all sealers and waterproofing ill need... $?....then just have to set up the grow room.

Now how can I use these blocks and run a 6in pipe (actually 2 6in and 1 8in pipe, and a pvc pipe for cords) between them and still have the wall sealed?

As far as the concrete mixing ill use a few kiddy pools or something, any advice on how to apply without a pump?

Yes I am going to use these. Home depot selling a package of these smartblocks big enough for my use for 400 bucks. These are 10in thick with 5.75in of clncrete. The floor and roof I am going to make 8in just concrete slab thick. Still decideing on how to do the beam. Lowes quikcrete concrete to make .6 cubic feet is 3.95 each. Did the math that's 2270 $ in concrete and the blocgk package is like 400. Then all I will need is the wood tto build the frame...~$200...and all sealers and waterproofing ill need... $?....then just have to set up the grow room.

Now how can I use these blocks and run a 6in pipe (actually 2 6in and 1 8in pipe, and a pvc pipe for cords) between them and still have the wall sealed?

As far as the concrete mixing ill use a few kiddy pools or something, any advice on how to apply without a pump?

JoObJoOb said:

i also built safe rooms in 2 of those houses,useing this system,worked beautifully,for a totally sealed air tight room

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Last post was goin to u forogt to quote you. Lol

i was going to say,4 mexicans and a kiddy pool,lmao,you will need to also put rebar inside of those blocks,u can do it in runs of like 3 or 4 blocks,they go up fast,i would pour a slab in the bottom,with like 2 or 3 foot rebar comeing up around the edges,you simple lay them blocks right over the rebar,go 3 or 4 high,pour it,add more rebar as u pour,its really pretty easy,and yes u can run all your shit right in the walls,you just have to have it all ready before u start laying the blocks,once its setup,you dont have to pour it all in aday either,u can let a section cure,then run more blocks and do another pour,or you could do your footer and lay the blocks,and later pour the floor,i really liked working with the blocks,i did most of that myself with 3 or 4 mexicans helping,,,of course we just had pump truck come out

you can also do the whole deal and pour it all at 1 time,,but you have to shore up the wals that way,or u can blow out ,we found that out the hard way,lol,had 1 blowout,

So the rebarb doesn't go in the floor at at gotcha. But I'm confused about the walls rebarb...I don't know what you mean lay a new peice everytime I go up a few feet...aren't they just one long peice of metal? Couldn't I pour the firet 2-3ft section of concrete, insert vertical rbarb that go all the way up the wall (or are going too), then let them dry in place and then ads the rest of the wall but sliding the peices down thru the rebarb into there places?

Then once the walls are done, can I just use plywood as a outside frame for the roof peice? Was told aboit using a corrigated steel plate or whayever for the bottom of the roof...what about the outside edges? Also would it be a good idea to lay rebarb in a checkered pattern in the roof peice?

I'm assuming to leave the holes for the pipes I just cut away a chunk of the smartsmartblock big enough. Now how would I take the open chunk, put pipe thru it and then seal the openings back so it can handle the concrete being poured in??

Also

weather you pour a slab or footers,the rebar needs to be in that,like every 10 inches or so u have a rebar sticking up maybe 2 foot,or 3 foot,when u lay the blocks over them your next rebars will be tied to the rebar below,lay more blocks and pour then run more rebar,its not hard, as for pipes you would just need to use your head,u can buy them blocks bigger,maybe just do one row of wider ones from floor up

Ok thank you I'm getting it now. As for the pipe holes idk what u mean, I'm just going to cyt holes as close as possible to pipe size then fill the crack with polyurethane seal. That should be fine.

Can you give me more info on how to construct the roof of this as well as a middle beam?

Rebarb laid across for ceiling support? Hole in preroof structure for small square of smartblock to go up for the beam, poured in with roof?

Other than that I think I got everything figured out I thank u so much for the help.

Any other important aspects we haven't covered?

after looking back at the plans,we used blocks called ecoblocks,simular to those smartblock,but alittle differnt

well,u can use plywood,with frame for support under it,,and yes you would tie rebar in checker patern,supported above the plywood,,u can buy portable stael post that can be put anywhere to help support the cealing,,if your doing it 8 inch thick,u also wouldnt need so much dirt ontop of it,maybe 2 foot,if u use plywood,then its east to build a temp form on it which takes care of the sides of the roof