Switching to Organics, How will I do?

st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Mayo, regarding your soil mix:

This is only my opinion, but I think you're a little light. I feel that you have two options here:

1) Add more amendments to your soil mix

or

2) Be prepared to top dress a few times and/or go heavier on teas.

I will share with you the recipe that I got from an old grower that has been at this forever, and whos opinion I respect a great deal. He broke the soil down in to 4 parts, which really helped me wrap my head around this when I made my first batch

BASE:
1/3 peat moss
1/3 aeration (perlite, pumice, lava rock, hydroton, etc)
1/3 compost/vermicompost

To that base, you will add the following that is broken down in to 3 categories. Food Mix, Fix-it Mix, and Mineral Mix:

FOOD MIX: You will ad 2 cups *total* per cubic foot of the following ingredients. This is not 2 cups per cf of each ingredient. IE, if you have 6 cf of base, you will ad 12 cups total of the following how ever you choose to break that down.

Alfalfa meal, soybean meal, blood meal, bone meal, fish bone meal, feather meal, cotton seed meal, flax seed meal, etc.

FIX-IT MIX: You will ad 1 & 1/2 cups per cf of the following:

Kelp meal, crabshell meal, neem seed meal, karanja seed meal

MINERAL MIX: You will ad 1 cup per cf of the following:

Greensand, gypsum, soft rock phosphate, oyster shell meal, azomite, liming agents, etc

In addition to the above, you will want to add at least 1 cup per cf of some rock dusts.


Diversity in your soil mix is a good goal, but you can keep it as simple as you want it based upon budget and what you can source locally. If you can't bump up your amendments, then I think you would be well served to buy a bag of an all purpose organic fertilizer like Espoma Garden-Tone (very cheap $10) and top dress a few times throughout your grow. If you go this route, leave a good 4+ inches at the top of your bucket. Your mix will be fine for 5 or so weeks of veg, but you will want to top dress a 1/4 cup to 1/3 when you flip to flower and cover that with a couple inches of top soil or ewc. You could top dress again at the end of week 3, and again in week 6 of flower (covering with a layer of soil each time).

This is only my opinion. Hopefully others will chime in with some advice too.
 
M

MayoMaster

Active Member
st0wandgrow said:
Mayo, regarding your soil mix:

This is only my opinion, but I think you're a little light. I feel that you have two options here:

1) Add more amendments to your soil mix

or

2) Be prepared to top dress a few times and/or go heavier on teas.

I will share with you the recipe that I got from an old grower that has been at this forever, and whos opinion I respect a great deal. He broke the soil down in to 4 parts, which really helped me wrap my head around this when I made my first batch

BASE:
1/3 peat moss
1/3 aeration (perlite, pumice, lava rock, hydroton, etc)
1/3 compost/vermicompost

To that base, you will add the following that is broken down in to 3 categories. Food Mix, Fix-it Mix, and Mineral Mix:

FOOD MIX: You will ad 2 cups *total* per cubic foot of the following ingredients. This is not 2 cups per cf of each ingredient. IE, if you have 6 cf of base, you will ad 12 cups total of the following how ever you choose to break that down.

Alfalfa meal, soybean meal, blood meal, bone meal, fish bone meal, feather meal, cotton seed meal, flax seed meal, etc.

FIX-IT MIX: You will ad 1 & 1/2 cups per cf of the following:

Kelp meal, crabshell meal, neem seed meal, karanja seed meal

MINERAL MIX: You will ad 1 cup per cf of the following:

Greensand, gypsum, soft rock phosphate, oyster shell meal, azomite, liming agents, etc

In addition to the above, you will want to add at least 1 cup per cf of some rock dusts.


Diversity in your soil mix is a good goal, but you can keep it as simple as you want it based upon budget and what you can source locally. If you can't bump up your amendments, then I think you would be well served to buy a bag of an all purpose organic fertilizer like Espoma Garden-Tone (very cheap $10) and top dress a few times throughout your grow. If you go this route, leave a good 4+ inches at the top of your bucket. Your mix will be fine for 5 or so weeks of veg, but you will want to top dress a 1/4 cup to 1/3 when you flip to flower and cover that with a couple inches of top soil or ewc. You could top dress again at the end of week 3, and again in week 6 of flower (covering with a layer of soil each time).

This is only my opinion. Hopefully others will chime in with some advice too.
Click to expand...
My only question in regards to this is if it will be too hot with all these amendments to put the clones directly in the soil. That mix posted on the last page is designed so that it can fill the container with 100% that soil mix, and not burn my clones. Would the soil with all these amendments be too hot to fill the entire container with? If so I can go back to the route of super soil on the bottom 3rd, but that leaves me confused about what I should put in the top portion. Maybe a super soil with all the amendments you listed, for the bottom 3rd, then the light amendment soil I have created on the top 2/3.

Unless you think that I can add more amendments without burning the plants. This is the only thing I am concerned about with additional amendments.
 
M

MayoMaster

Active Member
I'll do a quick revision of my soil:

Here is the base Mix:
Total CU without powders and meals = 6.8 cu
PROMIX = 3.8 cu / 6.8 cu = 55.88% (Peatmoss and perlite)
Perlite = 1.0 cu / 6.8 cu = 14.71%
EWC = 1.5 cu / 6.8 cu = 22.06%
Ancient Forest = .5 cu / 6.8 cu = 7.35%

Amendments for ~7 cu of base mix:
4 Cups of 6-5-3 Mix (Calcium Carbonate-Soft Rock Phosphate-Gypsum)
2 Cups Azomite
5 Cups Kelp Meal
8 Cups Alfalfa Meal
2 Cups Blood Meal
2 Cups Bone Meal
2 1/3 Tablespoons BioAg TM-7

If this was cooked for 45-60 days, would it be safe to fill the entire pot with this soil mix, and still transplant clones directly into it? Also will this be a good well rounded mix? I have access to lots of amendments, I just dont know whether to do a super soil and then god knows what on the top half, or just to do a complete single soil mix.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Your clones will be fine in that mix if you let it sit for the requisite amount of time. If you're concerned about it, go buy a cheap plant and test the soil out. I had the same concern the first batch I made up, and I threw a Pansie in a pot full of my soil. That was the nicest Pansie I've ever seen. :-)
 
M

MayoMaster

Active Member
st0wandgrow said:
Your clones will be fine in that mix if you let it sit for the requisite amount of time. If you're concerned about it, go buy a cheap plant and test the soil out. I had the same concern the first batch I made up, and I threw a Pansie in a pot full of my soil. That was the nicest Pansie I've ever seen. :-)
Click to expand...
Ok I will take your advice on this. I was concerned about it eing too hot but I trust your experience more than my speculation. But this sprouts another question: Should I go more diverse since I can get amendments, or try what I have stated and go from there? I have no problem re-adjusting this thing. Still got half a month.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
MayoMaster said:
Ok I will take your advice on this. I was concerned about it eing too hot but I trust your experience more than my speculation. But this sprouts another question: Should I go more diverse since I can get amendments, or try what I have stated and go from there? I have no problem re-adjusting this thing. Still got half a month.
Click to expand...
Diversity is a good thing. Your mix looks fine though. The only thing you're lacking is IPM (integrated pest management). Items like crab shell meal and neem seed meal would fit the bill. You will likely have to order those items online, so that's your call. If I were you I would spend $8 and go up to Home Depot and buy yourself some Mosquito bits (link below). Fungus gnats LOVE this nice rich organic soil that you will be building, and mosquito bits will put an end to their party. At a minimum I would invest in that. If you choose to buy some neem seed meal, I would highly recommend "Neem Resource" (link below). The Ahimsa neem is supposed to be the best product out there. That's where I ordered mine from.

http://www.repotme.com/pest-control/Fungus-Gnat-Control.html?gclid=CNr-t5jXjLoCFapAMgodjDoAMA#BTI-Bits.html

http://www.neemresource.com/
 
M

MayoMaster

Active Member
st0wandgrow said:
Diversity is a good thing. Your mix looks fine though. The only thing you're lacking is IPM (integrated pest management). Items like crab shell meal and neem seed meal would fit the bill. You will likely have to order those items online, so that's your call. If I were you I would spend $8 and go up to Home Depot and buy yourself some Mosquito bits (link below). Fungus gnats LOVE this nice rich organic soil that you will be building, and mosquito bits will put an end to their party. At a minimum I would invest in that. If you choose to buy some neem seed meal, I would highly recommend "Neem Resource" (link below). The Ahimsa neem is supposed to be the best product out there. That's where I ordered mine from.

http://www.repotme.com/pest-control/Fungus-Gnat-Control.html?gclid=CNr-t5jXjLoCFapAMgodjDoAMA#BTI-Bits.html

http://www.neemresource.com/
Click to expand...
On the neemresource website, is the neem seed meal called neem cake? I cant seem to find neem seed meal.
 
M

MayoMaster

Active Member
Will
3.5 Cups of 6-5-3 Mix (Calcium carbonate-soft rock phosphate-gypsum)
2 Cups Azomite
3 Cups Kelp Meal
3 Cups Crab Shell Meal
2 Cups Neem Seed Meal
8 Cups Alfalfa Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
2 1/3 Tablespoons BioAg TM-7

Be a well rounded soil that will be able to fight off fungus gnats without the mosquito bits? They dont seem like to bad of a deal though. I can get most amendments locally, and will buy whatever I need to make a good well rounded soil. My main thing is I do not want to overdo it as far as adding too many things. Hang in there and keep holding my hand please. ;)

I dropped the bone/blood meal because I heard from others it can burn plants if soil isn't cooked long enough and replaced it with some fish bone meal.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
MayoMaster said:
Will
3.5 Cups of 6-5-3 Mix (Calcium carbonate-soft rock phosphate-gypsum)
2 Cups Azomite
3 Cups Kelp Meal
3 Cups Crab Shell Meal
2 Cups Neem Seed Meal
8 Cups Alfalfa Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
2 1/3 Tablespoons BioAg TM-7

Be a well rounded soil that will be able to fight off fungus gnats without the mosquito bits? They dont seem like to bad of a deal though. I can get most amendments locally, and will buy whatever I need to make a good well rounded soil. My main thing is I do not want to overdo it as far as adding too many things. Hang in there and keep holding my hand please. ;)

I dropped the bone/blood meal because I heard from others it can burn plants if soil isn't cooked long enough and replaced it with some fish bone meal.
Click to expand...

You can hold off on the BTI bits if you want, and wait to see if you end up with fungus gnats. If you do end up with them in your soil, I strongly suggest you try them out. As for the blood/bone meal, I don't use either of those ingredients myself. The blood meal is a no-brainer to gas because there are so many other inputs that are high N. Replacing the bone meal with fish bone meal is a good move too imo.

That soil looks pretty solid. Rock dusts would round that out well if you can find a local quarry or something that would let you grab a bucket full. Other than that I think you're good to go.
 
M

MayoMaster

Active Member
st0wandgrow said:
You can hold off on the BTI bits if you want, and wait to see if you end up with fungus gnats. If you do end up with them in your soil, I strongly suggest you try them out. As for the blood/bone meal, I don't use either of those ingredients myself. The blood meal is a no-brainer to gas because there are so many other inputs that are high N. Replacing the bone meal with fish bone meal is a good move too imo.

That soil looks pretty solid. Rock dusts would round that out well if you can find a local quarry or something that would let you grab a bucket full. Other than that I think you're good to go.
Click to expand...
Would 3 cups of glacial rock dust added to that be good for rock dusts? I am glad I am almost there. As the days get closer to November I get excited like I used to as a child with Christmas, goddamnit. Also, you told me on another post to cook this with lid sitting on, no sealed and holes drilled in lid. Do I do both or one or the other?
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
MayoMaster said:
Would 3 cups of glacial rock dust added to that be good for rock dusts? I am glad I am almost there. As the days get closer to November I get excited like I used to as a child with Christmas, goddamnit. Also, you told me on another post to cook this with lid sitting on, no sealed and holes drilled in lid. Do I do both or one or the other?
Click to expand...
1 cup per cubic ft of rock dusts is a good amount. I would drill holes in your lid. You don't have to, but I like to. You will start out with moist soil that will require you to leave the lid loosely placed on the container. As it sits, it will dry out some at which point you can put the lid on there firmly, but you still want some air flow in there.... thus the holes in the lid. You want to find that balance between moist and dry. You will get the feel for it quickly once you start playing with it. Just check the soil daily and adjust accordingly. Dusty/dry is no good, and neither is wet/anaerobic/ammonia smelling.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I used 4 cups of rockdust per cu ft.then 1/2 cup of crab meal, neem meal, kelp meal. i followed Canns, and headtreeps recipe which I think is Cootz recipe
 
Organix420

Organix420

Member
Thanks MayoMaster - I'm trying a variant of your tea recipes; what do you think?

Veg Tea (per Gallon)
2-3 Tbsp high phosphorus bat guano (0-7-0)
1 Tbsp Roots Organic HPK (0-5-4) [bat guano & langbeinite]
1 Tbsp water soluble mycorrhizae (oregonismXL)
1 Tbsp blackstrap molasses
2-3 cups earthworm castings (in old sock)

aerate for 48 hours (I just use a couple of old fish tank pumps)

Haven't tried it yet but I'm planning on putting them to flower tomorrow and hitting them with a batch. I just hope I don't over due it with the HPK.
 
S

SpaaaceCowboy

Well-Known Member
Found this old thread as I was researching.....Thought I'd give er' a bump just for the heck of it....thought it was good for beginners.
 
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