Systemic spinosad for mites?

J

Jim Haddar

Well-Known Member
This says it works when applied to tomato roots in rockwool. Some sources say spinosad becomes systemic to an extent if applied to leaves, but I am guessing this would affect the whole plant.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Systemic use of spinosad to control the two-spotted spider mite (Acari: Tetranychidae) on tomatoes grown in rockwool - PubMed

Spinosad is a reduced-risk insecticide derived as a fermentation product from the soil actinomycete Saccharopolyspora spinosa. It is toxic by ingestion and contact and has a unique mode of action on the insect nervous system. Spinosad exhibits a high degree of selective toxicity towards the...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Jim Haddar said:
This says it works when applied to tomato roots in rockwool. Some sources say spinosad becomes systemic to an extent if applied to leaves, but I am guessing this would affect the whole plant.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Systemic use of spinosad to control the two-spotted spider mite (Acari: Tetranychidae) on tomatoes grown in rockwool - PubMed

Spinosad is a reduced-risk insecticide derived as a fermentation product from the soil actinomycete Saccharopolyspora spinosa. It is toxic by ingestion and contact and has a unique mode of action on the insect nervous system. Spinosad exhibits a high degree of selective toxicity towards the...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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interesting read. i've read elsewhere that you can use spinosad systemically, but haven't tried it myself. it would seem to negate the need to reapply, to get the ones that hatch after you spray.
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
I would highly discourage anything that's systemic as far as pesticides go. You're gonna smoke that stuff eventually. It's pretty easy to spray as an IMP early on in veg a week apart, but whatever you have going on should be under control at that point, and as the life cycle goes on into flower, there should be nothing left in the plant system.
 
W

waterproof808

Well-Known Member
there are lots of effective non-systemic options for spider mites in veg. Spinosad is banned for use on recreational cannabis in California and a few other places.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
waterproof808 said:
there are lots of effective non-systemic options for spider mites in veg. Spinosad is banned for use on recreational cannabis in California and a few other places.
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i don't know why, it's been pretty extensively tested, and none of the results that i have seen give any cause for alarm...it's just about the safest thing this side of dawn, and a lot more effective.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
You can't get that stuff in Canada I've heard and not just for pot either.

Safer's End All with 10ml/L canola or neem oil added works for me. A 500ml bottle of the concentrate makes 10L for the price of 1L of the ready mixed. Got to find your own spray bottle for $3 at a dollar store tho.

I'm leaving my grow room empty for a month but kept at 75F to kill off any remaining mites from some plants I brought in from the greenhouse a couple months ago. Just little things with maybe a half oz of bud before I let them dry out and tossed them.Got plants in the veg tent to start some clones with so it can sit empty until I have some ready to move in. Will be near 2 months by then.

:peace:
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
You can't get that stuff in Canada I've heard and not just for pot either.

Safer's End All with 10ml/L canola or neem oil added works for me. A 500ml bottle of the concentrate makes 10L for the price of 1L of the ready mixed. Got to find your own spray bottle for $3 at a dollar store tho.

I'm leaving my grow room empty for a month but kept at 75F to kill off any remaining mites from some plants I brought in from the greenhouse a couple months ago. Just little things with maybe a half oz of bud before I let them dry out and tossed them.Got plants in the veg tent to start some clones with so it can sit empty until I have some ready to move in. Will be near 2 months by then.

:peace:
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canola oil is cooking oil, if you're going to use that, go to the market and buy a quart for 5 or 6 bucks...
and this stuff
https://www.groworganic.com/products/safer-endall-insect-killer-rtu-32oz
contains pyrethrins
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0061/1391/9089/files/pbt445-b.pdf?v=13941628526172880297
i would be a lot more concerned about pyrethrins than about spinosad...
 
Dirt_McGirrt

Dirt_McGirrt

Well-Known Member
I use it on flowering plants. It's gone in a couple days.

I thought it went systemic after repeat foliar applications, though. No?

Oh and it's totally overkill for spider mites. I'm battling thrips that just won't die off.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Dirt_McGirrt said:
I use it on flowering plants. It's gone in a couple days.

I thought it went systemic after repeat foliar applications, though. No?

Oh and it's totally overkill for spider mites. I'm battling thrips that just won't die off.
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i've haven't had thrips since i moved inside, but mites are native here, and you can get them just walking through any outside foliage. i try to be careful, but usually get them once a year. three good sprayings, three days apart, maybe 4 sprayings if its a heavy infestation...problem solved, and always in veg.
i think the residual effect of the spinosad may be why i only get them once a year, during the late summer, which would be their prime mating time. the systemic effect keeps me from having reinfestations until the population drops due to the weather.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
canola oil is cooking oil, if you're going to use that, go to the market and buy a quart for 5 or 6 bucks...
and this stuff
https://www.groworganic.com/products/safer-endall-insect-killer-rtu-32oz
contains pyrethrins
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0061/1391/9089/files/pbt445-b.pdf?v=13941628526172880297
i would be a lot more concerned about pyrethrins than about spinosad...
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I got lots of canola oil so I can use it as a heating bath for my glass distillation gear. Plenty to add some to my sprays.

I would only spray during veg and pyrethrins aren't systemic so won't be any on the buds. Anything your plants absorb and it still kills bugs is going to be in the buds too so I'd rather avoid that.

:peace:
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
Dirt_McGirrt said:
I use it on flowering plants. It's gone in a couple days.

I thought it went systemic after repeat foliar applications, though. No?

Oh and it's totally overkill for spider mites. I'm battling thrips that just won't die off.
Click to expand...
The persistence of spinosad toxicity when applied via the roots was determined, and pointed to a long lasting control (up to 30 DAT). Spinosad amounts in leaves after systemic application were determined with an immunological technique to quantify spinosad uptake
from above linked study.
It does go systemic from our foliar applications but you must consider the concentration of active ingredients. Look on the side of the bottle...it says very tiny amount right? In the above experiment they did 1mg/plant in rockwool. Which is an order of magnitude more than our foliar applications.
Our foliars don't provide enough active ingredient to go systemic and be effective
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Dirt_McGirrt said:
Whatchoo mean I'm using Southern Ag spinosad. Shits strong and so are my thrips. Mutant super thrips by now.
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Insecticidal soap sprays with added canola oil kill by suffocating the bugs so they can't develop immunity to it and go mutant. I takes many generations for bugs to grow immune to any spray.

:peace:
 
Prescribed.Burn

Prescribed.Burn

New Member
Dirt_McGirrt said:
I use it on flowering plants. It's gone in a couple days.

I thought it went systemic after repeat foliar applications, though. No?

Oh and it's totally overkill for spider mites. I'm battling thrips that just won't die off.
Click to expand...
I ran a test on my home grow with Captain Jacks spinosad incase we ever needed it for the commercial grow. I heard of people spraying in early veg and failing our tests so wanted to run a study. Sprayed my purple urkle between 2nd & 3rd week of flower. Then took the flower to the lab after drying and curing. It failed testing. Here in Montana the maximum allowable limit is .2ppm and it tested at .33ppm. Currently running another test spraying in early veg but I wouldn't recommend spraying this stuff in flower or late veg at this point. Sucked throwing away flower that looked amazing and took 5 months to grow and dry. It works great on thrips but be careful imo. Cheers
 

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obijohn

obijohn

Well-Known Member
There is no proof spinosad is bad for you, it's designed to kill bugs safely. Only reason to not use it IMO is because some states do test for it for some unknown reason if you're selling commercially. I've used it directly on flowers when I started getting budworms, but it does kill the fuck out of thrips, spidermites etc. No residue, taste or anything negative after drying/curing
 
k0rps

k0rps

Well-Known Member
obijohn said:
There is no proof spinosad is bad for you, it's designed to kill bugs safely. Only reason to not use it IMO is because some states do test for it for some unknown reason if you're selling commercially. I've used it directly on flowers when I started getting budworms, but it does kill the fuck out of thrips, spidermites etc. No residue, taste or anything negative after drying/curing
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Just be mindful when using spinosad outside.. Some states have banned its use in commercial ag because of its effectiveness at killing vital pollinators/bees inadvertently

phys.org

Organic insecticides more damaging to non-target insects than synthetic counterparts

Very low concentrations of the popular organic insecticide spinosad have profound effects on beneficial insect species, including vision loss and neurodegeneration, new research led by the University of Melbourne has found.
phys.org phys.org
 
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