t12 vs CFL

Sure Shot

Sure Shot

Well-Known Member
More light (lumes) is always better. Remember you are trying to imitate the Sun. Personally the only time I would use a fluorescent is when cloning, in a second room. While my hps/metal halide are in the flower room. I pretty sure the t12 puts off a better light spectrum as well. So I recommend using the t12 and getting some hps-metal halide lights soon.
 
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trevorohio

Active Member
im trying to avoid hps and mh bulbs because of cost and heat.

thank you for your help, i figured the t12s with about 5 times the lumens and alot wider spread of the light path would work better
 
homegrwn

homegrwn

Well-Known Member
you can very well use both this is my choice and im going with the 90 dollar hps 250 from www.insidesun.com... they also have 400 hps for 110.. I was always told that the more lums the better.. with 4 bulbs of flouro in two 4 ft. shop lights your already near 10k ... if you put them vertically they give your whole plant a bath.. if you cut down the square footage you dont need the hps you can do cfl flouro and have nice smoke with no heat and only a recycling fresh are fan in the room...


 
homegrwn

homegrwn

Well-Known Member
when you flower the hps even a small one will be a monster help in getting the fattest densest nugs possible... so dont discard there use a 150 watt hps puts off very little extreme heat and can be cooled very easily with fans pointing in the right direction.. and remember with 6 40 watt tubes of flouro your using 240 watts of electricity... ive found its not the consumption of electricity gets you caught its the traffic and asshole neighbors... ive know people for 14 or so years that have been growing and never had a worry... dont pay the bill and they might knock or shut off your shit but the hps is a heat specific problem only...gl hit me up if you have questions
 
KaliKitsune

KaliKitsune

Well-Known Member
Avoiding HPS and MH because of cost?

Sorry, my GOOD T5HO fluorescent system cost nearly 200 bucks at 432w and 40K lumens. a 400w MH @60K lumens is more efficient energy-wise, and uses about the same power after figuring ballast inefficiencies, and only costs about 150 or so.

And I really wouldn't do a T12. That's just a huge, huge waste. Lumens don't add up, just FYI, so you need a powerful source. (this is why you can keep fluorescents closer to plants, the light isn't as intense and doesn't bleach out the leaves.) A T12, four foot bulb only outputs how many lumens? A T5HO 4 foot bulb dumps 5,000, That's likely near double that T12 for an extra 1/3 power.
 
TheFaux

TheFaux

New Member
Agreed... HID is the cheapest alternative. The money you spend up front is going to be dwarfed by the amount of money you save growing your own.
 
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trevorohio

Active Member
actually each blue spectrum put out : 3050 lumens and each red : 3400 lumens..

so if i do 2 ballasts = 4 bulbs = around 12k lumens
 
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trevorohio

Active Member
now you are starting to confuse me because just 2 post ago you were comparing them by lumens..but i cant find the par/pur ratings for these bulbs
 
BirdTooth

BirdTooth

Well-Known Member
TheFaux said:
WTF does heat have to do with it? Figure out what a watt is, then reassess your needs.
Click to expand...
Maybe he is getting ready to move house after one harvest, and doesn't want to spend a lot of time ventilating his tiny growspace or moving fragile lights and ballasts. Maybe he is doing a stealth grow in an apartment complex that pumps their heat up, so he will be dealing with heat issues even without an HID light.
Figure out what heat and its properties are, then reasses your response.
 
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trevorohio

Active Member
BirdTooth said:
Maybe he is getting ready to move house after one harvest, and doesn't want to spend a lot of time ventilating his tiny growspace or moving fragile lights and ballasts. Maybe he is doing a stealth grow in an apartment complex that pumps their heat up, so he will be dealing with heat issues even without an HID light.
Figure out what heat and its properties are, then reasses your response.
Click to expand...
dude you are completely right, i need low heat because i live in a tiny apartment complex
 
KaliKitsune

KaliKitsune

Well-Known Member
Okay, since you're getting confused.....

PUR/PAR is the measurement of photosynthetic radiation the plants can use. The higher the number, the better.

Lumens is just a measurement of green light (as humans are most responsive to green) and plants don't really care. In reality, everyone says lumens like it means something, it really doesn't. Lumens only gives you an IDEA of how much light you're giving your plants, and the PUR/PAR rating of a bulb tells you what percentage of the light emitted can be used by plants.

You would do better removing all those T12 lights and whatnot and just using a 150w HPS. Heat isn't an issue with simple proper airflow and ventilation, and one smaller bulb is easier to keep cool than a bunch of larger inefficient ones.

If you *MUST* do fluorescent, invest in a T5HO system and ditch the T12s.

I don't see why you're worried about heat. I'm in a tiny apartment and out here in CA I have to worry about keeping things cool, even in wintertime.

If you live where your name suggests, right now heat would be your best friend in keeping a closet warm this time of year, and thus I'd go with an HPS or MH.
 
growwwww

growwwww

Well-Known Member
Alright so you guys seem to know what your talking about. SO heres the deal i live in the UK and dont have lowes or home depot but theres this electric store. Now im vegging with 125real w envirolite and have one in red spectrum for flowering but if i want to add some flouros to my setup during the flowering. Is this what i need yes? Bearing in mind this is low wattage i know and stuff but of what i hear these use virtually no heat or something and i can use em for side lighting and are cheap. So is this it.
few of these
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=20608
and some of these
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=46304

then i wire it up somehow and plug it in. yeh? im a bit confused :P is it one per bulb n stuff.

would really appreiciate it. soz for doing this on ur thread btw real sorry.
 
KaliKitsune

KaliKitsune

Well-Known Member
growwwww said:
Alright so you guys seem to know what your talking about. SO heres the deal i live in the UK and dont have lowes or home depot but theres this electric store. Now im vegging with 125real w envirolite and have one in red spectrum for flowering but if i want to add some flouros to my setup during the flowering. Is this what i need yes? Bearing in mind this is low wattage i know and stuff but of what i hear these use virtually no heat or something and i can use em for side lighting and are cheap. So is this it.
few of these
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=20608
and some of these
http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=46304

then i wire it up somehow and plug it in. yeh? im a bit confused :P is it one per bulb n stuff.

would really appreiciate it. soz for doing this on ur thread btw real sorry.
Click to expand...
That's just the starter and a bulb, you're still going to need a ballast or transformer for voltage conversion. Easier to just buy a couple of pre-made fluorescent lighting rigs if you're gonna do that.
 
BirdTooth

BirdTooth

Well-Known Member
KaliKitsune said:
Okay, since you're getting confused.....

PUR/PAR is the measurement of photosynthetic radiation the plants can use. The higher the number, the better.

Lumens is just a measurement of green light (as humans are most responsive to green) and plants don't really care. In reality, everyone says lumens like it means something, it really doesn't. Lumens only gives you an IDEA of how much light you're giving your plants, and the PUR/PAR rating of a bulb tells you what percentage of the light emitted can be used by plants.

You would do better removing all those T12 lights and whatnot and just using a 150w HPS. Heat isn't an issue with simple proper airflow and ventilation, and one smaller bulb is easier to keep cool than a bunch of larger inefficient ones.

If you *MUST* do fluorescent, invest in a T5HO system and ditch the T12s.

I don't see why you're worried about heat. I'm in a tiny apartment and out here in CA I have to worry about keeping things cool, even in wintertime.

If you live where your name suggests, right now heat would be your best friend in keeping a closet warm this time of year, and thus I'd go with an HPS or MH.
Click to expand...
I did some serious research. That PUR/PAR rating does seem quite ideal. Unfortunately, it isn't a very widely displayed measurement, and takes a bit of math and info to figure out on your own while shopping.
Fortunately, though not being an ideal measurement, number of lumens, coupled with color temperature, can give you a pretty good idea on how your plants are going to react to the light, since color temperature refers to the area of the spectrum emcompassed by your light, and thus can be used to select lights that will provide in the high and low temperatures of visible light that plants require.

I would agree that T12's aren't very useful for much except for growing minor herbs.

T5 fixtures, on the other hand, can be pretty impressive. If you are attentive about moving the light as your plants grow, never moving it too far away, you can experience some very satisfying veg growth. I don't share Kali's reluctance on using them as your main veg method, especially if you are worried about space and heat.

It's true that you wouldn't have to beat yourself up to vent a small HID light, but if you are in the kind of aparment that you sound like you are in, even that might be too hot. I don't think Kali quite understands the blazing central apartment heat issue you sometimes encounter up there, but he lives in a different region so it is understandable.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lighting/78632-par-vs-pur-measurement-light-efficency.html

http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare.htm

All good if you can wade through the esoteric stuff.
 
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