T5 Light Setup Help Please

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Levi. You have to get lumens out of your head. Lumens have nothing to do with plant growth. The definition of lumens is visible light to the human eye. Lumens apply to lighting that helps us see. Plants absorb wave lengths that some of we can't see. Its about par / ppf and cri. You want about at least 800 umole/s and 80 cri for optimal plant growth. The CMH has less lumens than a 600 but a CMH has more lumens per watt. CMH has about 350 umole/s more than a 600 at a further distance.
 
Levi. You have to get lumens out of your head. Lumens have nothing to do with plant growth. The definition of lumens is visible light to the human eye. Lumens apply to lighting that helps us see. Plants absorb wave lengths that some of we can't see. Its about par / pff and cri. You want about at least 800 umole/s and 80 cri for optimal plant growth. The CMH has less lumens than a 600 but a CMH has more lumens per watt. CMH has about 350 umole/s more than a 600 at a further distance.

I have no idea what any of that means lol,

I just want some lights that work effectively/minimal effort, don't cost a fortune to run and give me a good/large yield
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
wouldn't let me edit so I had to delete and repost


Plant Lighting Fundamentals


Understanding PAR

While a plant benefits to a small degree with the light wavelength or spectra that the eye see's, plants respond best to the Ultraviolet (UV) and Infrared (IR) regions of the spectrum. However if the spectrum is narrowly or not at all emitted by the lamp then the plants will not develop to its fullest leafy vegative or bulky flowering stages that natural sunlight would have intended.
Since light plays such a critical role in a plants successful growth it's important to have the proper quality and quantity of light available to the plant as it needs it. Insufficient light levels will reduce a plants overall weight and develop symptoms of stress, decreased nodule density and smaller leaves. While too much light can damage the plant from excessive IR heat radiation or extreme UV radiation.
As it relates to proper light selection we'll introduce you to the importance of two biological reactions that occur within a plant; Photosynthesis and Photomorphogenesis
Plants absorb light by a green pigment within the plant known as chlorophyll. When chlorophyll absorbs light and turns it into energy it is through a chemical process within the plant called Photosynthesis.
As Photosynthesis occurs, the wavelength spectrum that is most beneficial to plant growth is found within certain areas between the 380-720 nanometer range of the spectrum. The light that is within this region is referred to as Photosynthetically Active Radiation (PAR).
A plants spectral lighting needs will change as it grows. Since spectrum plays an important part in the success of the plants growth developmental bioligists refer presence of these light mediated changes that the plant absorbs through a variety of Receptors as Photomorphogenesis.
As shown within the chart below, you can see the average PAR ranges for most plants that should be available for maximum chlorophyll absorption. Within these ranges plants will respond very well to the emitted light wavelengths.
NanometersPAR Influences
200 - 280UVC ultraviolet range; extremely toxic to plants.
280 - 315UVB ultraviolet light; causes plants colors to fade.
315 - 380UVA ultraviolet light; is neither harmful nor beneficial to plant growth.
380 - 400Start of visible light spectrum. Chlorophyll Absorption begins. UV protected plastics ideally block out any light below this range.
400 - 520This range includes violet, blue, and green bands. Peak chlorophyll absorption influences photosynthesis. Most significant in promoting vegetative growth.
520 - 610This range includes the green, yellow, and orange bands and has little absorption by receptors.
610 - 720This is the Red band where large instances of chlorophyll absorption occur which promote flowering and budding.
720 - 1000There is little chlorophyll absorption in this range. Flowering and germination are influenced at the high Far-Red end as infrared heat.
1000+Totally infrared range. All energy absorbed at this point is converted to heat.
Measuring Plant Lighting

We measure visible light in Lumens, LUX, Lumens Per Watt or Footcandles but are these same measurements also adequate when measuring for a plants lighting levels? No.
While there is nothing wrong with knowing these measurements these are not the best measurements to tell us what is the best lamp for the our plants overall lighting needs.
A better way to measure plant lighting is to determine how much energy the lamp consumes and how much light actually makes it to the plant surfaces where both Photosynthesis and Photomorphogenesis occurs.
When measuring light QUANTITY for a plant we look to measure how many PHOTONS, (the minimum unit of energy involving light) are falling each second within a square meter. Photons are such a small unit of measurement that they are referred to as MICROMOLES OF PHOTONS or more often just MICROMOLES to describe a measurement of how many photons are arriving at a plants surface from the emitted light source. For reference 2000 micromoles would be a sunlight level measurement of light.
Of most value to the grower and his plant would be the number of photons being measured at the plant, per second, per square meter, within the PAR ranges of 380-720 nanometers. This value is then known as the PHOTOSYNTHETIC PHOTON FLUX (PPF) level that the lamp emits.
Meters that measure these (PPF) values are often referred to as QUANTUM METERS since a quantum is the amount of energy carried by a photon. These meters will provide entire spectrum measurements of the total number of photons per second values as well as measure the YIELD PHOTON FLUX (YPF) of the lamp which is as we've seen by the plants photomorphogenis requirements will assist the grower in identifying that the lamp has the proper PAR spectrum for maximum photosynthetic repsonse at that stage of plant growth.
Another way growers like to measure light for plants is by PAR WATTS. What this refers to is how much light energy is available between the 400-700 nanometer ranges that the plant requires for Photosynthesis. What is extremely important to know the efficiency of the lamp being considered. Growers should be careful when considering these values and not to correlate higher PAR WATT values with more successful yields since with energy efficient lighting such as induction the PAR Watts per Square foot may measure 70% less than an HID and while still delivering micromoles in excess of the HID within the plants PPF and YPF requirements. We publish our lamp output values in Watts/Region which allows the consumer to see how much energy the lamp emits in the three regions of greatest importance to known photosynthetic response.


http://www.life.illinois.edu/govindjee/photosynBook.html

http://www.controlledenvironments.org/Light1994Conf/2_4_King/King text.htm

http://plantphys.info/plant_physiology/phytochrome.shtml

plantphys.info/plant_physiology/phytochrome.shtml

http://www.inda-gro.com/pdf/MeasuringPlantLight.pdf

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/61/11/3107.full

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/53/376/1935

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/59/15/4171.full

http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/content/50/4/684.full
 
yes 1 330 for veg and then you can even run 4 CMH in flower. You could run 2 CMH and do them in a vertical scrog, no hood. Get a better yield. Check whodats thread in the vert section for ideas on vert. When I used to run CMH before place was robbed. I ran them overhead the first batch then switched to vert and got much better results. Where lower buds were same size as top buds.
Did you mean use 2 in veg or in flower as scrog? If i did it this way would 1 for veg and 2 (scrog flower be effective?) I think 4 lights would be overkill for 6 - 8 plants in a 2m x 2m tent?

also doing this down the middle would it not be too hot for the plants around the bulb?


Alnd that's a lot of reading ill get through it at some point though lol
 

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
Levi,
save hyroot's last post. you will eventually want to digest that information, even if you're in a hurry now. thanks for the refresher course Hy!
best of luck with your lighting!
be easy,
:peace:
 
lol yup cheers Dr, It just looks like a wall of text at the minute but i will read up on it eventually, its more of a sit down when toddlers not destroying house behind you post :)
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Did you mean use 2 in veg or in flower as scrog? If i did it this way would 1 for veg and 2 (scrog flower be effective? I think 4 would be overkill for 6 - 8 plants?

also doing this down the middle would it not be too hot for the plants around the bulb?
1 x 1 meter is what one 330 cmh will cover. your flower tent is 4 times that size.. You would have a fan on the floor pointed towards the ceiling. the fan would be placed beneath the bulb.

here is whodats

 
Ah i see just checked his thread that's some setup on a much larger scale than i wanna do, but i get the general idea :)

will definately give scrogging some serious consideration though it makes use of the space i have a little more effectively
 

Widow Maker

Well-Known Member
Great info! Thats the kind of research I have been waiting for. I would like to see results before I buy one. It sounds really good on paper.
Hyroot if you were going to buy one yourself. No money limit. What would you buy? Link?
 

Widow Maker

Well-Known Member
Ok heres what I want to know. I see how good the plant grows in veg. Do you know if there are any studies on trichome development? Bottom line thats what matters most.
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Great info! Thats the kind of research I have been waiting for. I would like to see results before I buy one. It sounds really good on paper.
Hyroot if you were going to buy one yourself. No money limit. What would you buy? Link?
apache tech all the way. There is a promo discount. To get an at 660 for $2000. They are the only led company that has UL certs. A51 is working on it. I do like my inda gro's . Its a completely different tech. They have UL Cs certs and working on csa certs (for damp green houses). A51 get the UL it would be the same between them and apache. A51 is the best bang for the buck and they give bulk discounts. Even better than what they offer on the site. By the end of April. My garden will be completely rebuilt. The room, one side all inda gro ,the other side all a51. I have an inda Gro 420 in veg. I'm building 2 cob led panels for another veg room for plants on the led side.

http://www.apachetechinc.com/white-red/25-at600.html

http://a51led.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65

http://www.inda-gro.com/products.html
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Ok heres what I want to know. I see how good the plant grows in veg. Do you know if there are any studies on trichome development? Bottom line thats what matters most.
yes. I have to look for them. I remember there was a 3%-5% increase in THC depending on strain. Just from what I have seen blankets of trichomes. Then induction IG they put out uv-b IR and the 660 leds which definitely increase trichome production. I have one strain that will be the last run this batch. Leaves never get trichomes or very little.. The water leaves were caked with trichomes under the induction /led combo. I'm very anxious to get my new tga strains into flower. The seedlings are barely over a week old..
 
Widow converting to led?

will have to see how this develops if results are good I might give it a go myself in a grow or two once i grasp some basics :)

$2000 dollars for a light though that's mental
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Widow converting to led?

will have to see how this develops if results are good I might give it a go myself in a grow or two once i grasp some basics :smile:
why not. the rest of the world is going that route.. all of japan and china street lights are either induction or led.. all the 7 eleven stores i n cali use leds in their parking lots for street lights. several universities replaces all lighting with led or induction.. Almost all newer cars use led head headlights and tail lights. all of vegas is led too.

$2000 dollars for a light though that's mental
yeah thats alot. so why I go for Area 51 first. you can cover a slightly larger area for a few hundred dollars less. have the life time limited warranty. if apache had at least a 10 year warranty like inda gro it would be worth it.

they don't care about the average cannabis grower. they sell huge quantities to university labs and NASA so they are not trying to make money in the cannabis scene .

greengenes did a great job with that light though.

https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/763210-greengenes-apache-at600-garden-blackberry.html

you can even do a successful grow with house hold cree leds from home depot. Captainmorgan did great with those

https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/656542-flowering-cree-bulbs.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/690504-critical-kush-mainlined.html
 
Hey all sorry i've not been around but took forever to sort internet at new house (long ordeal but sorted now) so a little update i have ordered this setup and am awaiting delivery

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271328052568?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

now i'm currently trying to find an ec and ph tester which actually work for under £20 anyone have any suggestions preferably not something imported from china ive also ordered some clones they should be arriving this weekend also so need things in a hurry :)
 
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