Tent height and heat using same wattage

Budget Buds said:

Sounds like something is wrong with your fan. Mine runs silently except for the sound of moving air, at level 5 you cant hear anything

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Ur secons person owning this fan that describe that their fan dont produce it. I contacted ac infinity and amazon and wait for response. As for silencer its from grow company from my country, pretty much the same silencer as ac infinity have - egg foam pattern in a galvanized steel, but it wont help with motor that is causing the sound. As for ducting i used it for testing if the fan dont produce sound by vibrating rest of the set up, smoothing it up more wont affect this sound - its from the motor. Sending to ac infinity would be really costy, since i probably will sent the fan back im thinking about few options - i can use just lighting and space for half of the tent and use one of my cheap fans - i chosed this size tent to being able to enter it and avoid spreading the smell through so i can be happy with that. I can also order ac infinity s6 and check if it have the same problem and use return time (current fan exceeded date from purchase) - ill still get controller 67 from current fan. Wonder what level ill use if i use half wattage of current light - maybe half maybe 2/3 of my current cfm need. In the future i can move the tent to other location that is not the condo with neighbors around

Yeah I asked about the ducting because that sort of stuff could make that sound of noise if the air turbulence is right and speed is right.

A bit like a roof rack with holes in on a car driving at certain speed can make a real hum.

But if you get the same tone without it then obviously not the issue. Just trying to think outside the box.

I'm still confused as to how your ambient air is 70 degrees f but your hitting 80 f with fan on full.
10 degrees is a big jump for a small set up and fan of that cfm.

That doesn't change the fact your fans humming but at the same time I feel it could be set up better so that you could run it on lower speed

coreywebster said:

Yeah I asked about the ducting because that sort of stuff could make that sound of noise if the air turbulence is right and speed is right.

A bit like a roof rack with holes in on a car driving at certain speed can make a real hum.

But if you get the same tone without it then obviously not the issue. Just trying to think outside the box.

I'm still confused as to how your ambient air is 70 degrees f but your hitting 80 f with fan on full.
10 degrees is a big jump for a small set up and fan of that cfm.

That doesn't change the fact your fans humming but at the same time I feel it could be set up better so that you could run it on lower speed

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you misunderstood a little, i hit around 80 with 6 setting and i was expecting with calculations that t6 would be sufficient with this set up at 4-6 setting (160-240 cfm),my carbon filter is for max 280cfm i didnt expect that that amount of air would make so much humm but the problem is that ringy noise from the fan itself on those speeds and i obviously cant start my grow cause its louder than the air hum and my paper thin wall neighbors will notice (we are not legal here). If anybody listened to recordings - its the ringy noise and it is from the motor, not the surroundings or air flowing through. I diconnected the motor from the casing and as i listened even on level 3 there was very quiet rattling so something must be wrong with bearings or something like that - the rattling just changes frequency as the fan is faster. Hope ac infinity would do anything in regard to warranty, but as i would pay for international shipping a lot and i already paid for the fan i lost a lot money for something i cant use. I really appreciate ur help guys i try my best to find solution but its this f***** fan. I guess 2x4 grow tent isnt suppose to be stealthy for apartment/condo. I can hang my set up again if u really need a photo, but it was perfect - silencer and carbon seal attached to fan at first without ductings just to not make duct air turbulence, exhausting from the right upper corner through left side of the tent, passive intake coming through right side (near opened window) and giving air on the left bottom side of the tent. i tried my cheap fans as intake and i found i would still need to run 5/6 level on infinity. So dissapointed that one piece equipment messed up my whole project

024matters said:

you misunderstood a little, i hit around 80 with 6 setting and i was expecting with calculations that t6 would be sufficient with this set up at 4-6 setting (160-240 cfm),my carbon filter is for max 280cfm i didnt expect that that amount of air would make so much humm but the problem is that ringy noise from the fan itself on those speeds and i obviously cant start my grow cause its louder than the air hum and my paper thin wall neighbors will notice (we are not legal here). If anybody listened to recordings - its the ringy noise and it is from the motor, not the surroundings or air flowing through. I diconnected the motor from the casing and as i listened even on level 3 there was very quiet rattling so something must be wrong with bearings or something like that - the rattling just changes frequency as the fan is faster. Hope ac infinity would do anything in regard to warranty, but as i would pay for international shipping a lot and i already paid for the fan i lost a lot money for something i cant use. I really appreciate ur help guys i try my best to find solution but its this f***** fan. I guess 2x4 grow tent isnt suppose to be stealthy for apartment/condo. I can hang my set up again if u really need a photo, but it was perfect - silencer and carbon seal attached to fan, exhausting from the right upper corner through left side of the tent, passive intake coming through right side (near opened window) and giving air on the left bottom side of the tent. i tried my cheap fans as intake and i found i would still need to run 5/6 level on infinity. So dissapointed that one piece equipment messed up my whole project

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I fully appreciate where your coming from.
Noise is a real annoyance for me for the same reasons.
I'm in the UK so I'm always aware of raising suspicion from neighbours.

It might be your fan blades are not balanced properly.
Old fans like ruck never had any balancing because they were flawlessly made in the first place but seems these new fans these days are often balanced the same as a car wheel.

I don't know where you are in the world but I'll post a picture of the type of fan I use now incase it helps.

I've spent a lot on all sorts over the years but these fans have been my favourite purchase ever, even more so than my LEDs.
Peace of mind is worth more than anything to me

I own a 4" , 6" and a 10"

The 4 inch I used on various tents, 2x4ft, 3x3ft and now on a 4x4 with a 315cmh for veg.

The 6 inch is used on a 4x8 with about 1200w of led.

The 10 inch I bought to extract 2x 4x8 flower tents simultaneously but haven't got around to that because I sold my house last year.

Note the chart with decibel ratings and airflow.

I use them with variac speed controllers, some manual, some temp controlled .
But in winter I need them turned down to minimum.

I vent up chimneys whenever possible and I use oversized duct .

In my last place I had a 2x4 set up for a while amongst other small tents, in that I used pc fans for air circulation, to keep sound down, the 4" was quieter than the pc fans.

If you want to see if you can find them search ebay for "silent box fan"

I know they are from China because I found them on alibaba one time as I was considering importing them to sell myself as many people buy fancy high end fans and won't ever know the joy of how quiet these understated fans are.
Just make sure you buy from someone who shows the data sheet.

I believe the 4" was around £90

Always aim for worst case temps though, middle of summer

Ummmmm, I'm kinda buzzed right now so please forgive me if I missed something along the way. Why not dim the light down a bit until you can adjust your fan lower? If I missed this someplace else, then my bad. Everything is a compromise.

Also, just an observation here and not trying to dismiss what you are doing. If you are taping your ducts to the fan and everywhere else with that low quality, loose masking tape, that's no bueno. Your ducts need to be sealed better than that. Air is escaping and a recording of that set-up laying on a sofa is not representative of what's going down inside your grow tent. I would suggest going back to the basics, set your tent-up exactly like you would be growing and run your gear. I would also reconsider venting back into any indoor space as you're not going to be able to control it in a stealth manner. I'm not beating-up on you, but you are very quick to blame the fan and filter when the basics you exhibit leave something to be desired. If the basic requirements for an indoor grow can't be met, I'd look into another hobby. Good luck, I hope you sort this out.

I'm certain I saw this same question posted under a similar title on the same day.

No problem, but you misunderstood a little. I dont blame a fan for not pushing enough air to cool down tent, i was wondering if using smaller area with smaller tent would help to use lower speed setting. I blame it for whining on low settings being an ec controlled motor. I used this tape just to record the noise, in tent i used clamps, straight duct, also without a duct just by connectors - it would pain in the... to ruin duct with good tape/clamps and waste of time. I tested multiple connecting settings to see if this helps with the noise, yeah i was thinkin also about dimming light if i cant control temperature other way, cheers

coreywebster said:

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Thanks, i would look out for them if ac infinity wont solve noise problem. Funny i started building mdf box with acoustic insulation but its basically the same. If you say they are quiet most likely they have better motors/blades. I think ill need to prepare my cottage/summer house for 2x4 and will use half of my tent in apartment to not run any fan on too loud setting

024matters said:

Thanks, i would look out for them if ac infinity wont solve noise problem. Funny i started building mdf box with acoustic insulation but its basically the same. If you say they are quiet most likely they have better motors/blades

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Just a totally different type of fan .

These are what's known as squirrel cage or centrifugal fans, most box fans are.

Google it and you will see how different the blades are

these tents are the same make and only 2.5ft^2. i am expecting seven to eight ounces on my next harvest

i only flower at cooler times of year. the light is only kept at 1/3 brightness and in winter the tent is nice and cool

the only fan in the system is the duct fan on the outtake so everything is quiet. since i don't sleep in that room i also keep the nursery tent at the bottom open on both ends at all times

the light is also very efficient with heat dispersion/distribution also

i learned the fun way that extreme heat in a tent can do some wonky things with terpenes, and almost certainly stop any thc production

university of utah dr bugbee team showed in small enclosed grows 3 x 6 feet or so that after temps go into the 80's, thc and cbd content drop as much as half

they found that brighter light did not do much to increase thc/cbd and terpenes, and only gave a modest increase in yield

coreywebster said:

Just a totally different type of fan .

These are what's known as squirrel cage or centrifugal fans, most box fans are.

Google it and you will see how different the blades are

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Ah ok, i didnt notice these are centrifugal. From what i know centrifugals are the quietest and make more pressure than any other type. If you use variac speed controller and say they are quiet i assume they dont create any buzz etc when slowed down. As for terpenes and temperature i heard from many sources (also dr Brugbee) that temps above 80 make them evaporate in high amounts so thats why i am aiming to not exceed that. Thats a nice set up Dank’d, i was aiming also at cooler time of year that is starting now. Ill have to prepare my summer house, but will have to buy oil heater because its an wooden uninsulated type

Yeah there's no buzz or that tone of hum.

If you set up your grow properly you should be able to bring your temps down regardless.

You have things backwards.

Your venting into your house and have an intake near a window.
This is backwards because.
1. Your house has a higher concentration of co2 than ambient outside levels due to it being lived in.
2. Your intake isn't sealed to a window so is essentially bringing in air from that room and not from outside, so temps won't be ideal.

What you should be doing is venting out of the house, via chimney or you build a box around your window which you put a hole for duct in and seal it to it so air can only leave the building.
Then your passive intake can come from anywhere, naturally it will draw air higher in co2 from your house.

When you start needing heaters to heat a small grow space you may as well not be using led in the first place and use HID , which plants seem to do better under at lower temperature.
Any oil filled rad is going to double your electricity usage if not far worse.

The other thing I've nit asked about your current set up is are you running your lights on period in the coldest part of the day (night time)?

I planned to run it during the day, to not bring fan to high levels for noise (at night everything quiets so much that i can hear much more from neighbors). As i made test run i exhausted to next room through door, havent noticed any change in temps in room where intake is. I prefer LED due to broader spectrum. In my summer house temps will be roughly the same as outdoor, id rather heat small room/whole summer house than depend on very low temperatures outside. Of course ac infinity controller can be very helpfull to self regulate tent temperature. I appreciate your help regarding temperature, but my only concern for now is loudy fan, i know i can set up intakes/exhausts different ways

Fair enough

I have only two questions more, maybe someone knows - would higher capacity (and more carbon) carbon filter would create more/less resistance. My logic tells me it would be equal cause it will have more surface for air but equally more carbon. Also if my mars hydro tsl 2000 have just a few infrared diodes - should i cover my thermomethers right ? Im confused - i dont want to exceed 80f, but if infrared heats up bud surface and transpiration cools them down i should take air temperature with covered thermomether as a good control measurement ?

024matters said:

I have only two questions more, maybe someone knows - would higher capacity (and more carbon) carbon filter would create more/less resistance. My logic tells me it would be equal cause it will have more surface for air but equally more carbon. Also if my mars hydro tsl 2000 have just a few infrared diodes - should i cover my thermomethers right ? Im confused - i dont want to exceed 80f, but if infrared heats up bud surface and transpiration cools them down i should take air temperature with covered thermomether as a good control measurement ?

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The proper amount of carbon to do the job will always create resistance.
Any less and the air will travel through the path of least resistance and not be cleaned properly.

As for measuring temp, the key is air temperature and your right in thinking IR will heat an object and throw off proper air temp readings.
Not as much with LED as with HID which throws off far more radiant heat, but still , light heats objects as anything that doesn't bounce off perfectly, ie be reflected perfectly has to turn to another form of energy, ie , heat.

This is why you should measure air temp out of direct light. As can be seen in a weather station and the device called a Stephenson screen, which you can google if you like.

So yes , put your thermometer out of direct light, especially if it's black, which weirdly some are these days.

There's some good articles explaining the difference between plant tolerance of high radiant heat vs high air temp.
Which is why we measure air temp and try to do it accurately and why we used to just use the hand test for radiant heat.
Of course we have such things as laser thermometers these days so we can look at leaf surface temperature instead.
But this is why in general we aim for higher air temps with LED than with hps , we dont have the same level of IR to increase leaf surface temp , which is why you can grow a lovely plant under HID in cooler temps than with LED.
Low 70s vs high 70s to low 80s.

Thank you very much, i have some exciting news (for me but also future customers) that ac infinity sent me an replacement without any charges although im out of US ! And i can keep my current unit. Their site clearly states that their non charge policy is applicanle only for US. As for measuring heat thank you for your explanation, that can describe why my white cable thermometer showed lower readings. I will read more about leaf vs air temperature, for now i thought that they just cool down them self and always have lower temperature and thats it. Love exploring science with you guys !