TGA Strains Stable?

TheMan13 · Jul 8, 2012

You all are too funny! I think I'll fit right in

I am neither Sub nor a troll. I have read threads here forever and decided to join today...

I came across this thread today as I am considering a Dairy Queen grow and the title "TGA Strains Stable?" caught my attention.

After reading through the comments I was glad to hear nothing bad about DQ, but left with the impression some writers may have a ax to grind with Sub.

I am no expert, but I do have some experience and chose to put my two cents in. If I were to experience a hermi, I would look to my growing environment before blaming the breeder of the seed.

Gamer621 · Jul 8, 2012

stak said:
Ain't it a bitch when someone brings logic and common sense into the discussion?

No, It is welcomed.

*Looks left*
*Looks right*
*Looks up*
*Looks down*
*Looks behind*

Nope, No logic or common sense to be found. Just subcool fanbois that keep telling us to look at grow journals of sub's friends.

Gamer621 · Jul 8, 2012

TheMan13 said:
I am no expert, but I do have some experience and chose to put my two cents in. If I were to experience a hermi, I would look to my growing environment before blaming the breeder of the seed.

And what pray tell would you do if you and 20 of your buddies with all different growing enviroments, nutes, lights etc etc all had hermie plants from the same breeder? I mean after you of course blamed yourselves.

bluntmassa1 · Jul 8, 2012

Jogro said:
Looking at this comment in the best possible light, I'd agree that since Sub grows, breeds, and presumably selects all his lines in super-soil, all his plants should thrive in that medium.

To be clear here, the Super-soil is a highly enriched organic medium designed specifically for growing cannabis. Though different strains have *slightly* different needs for optimal growth, this particular mix by design has an abundance of all necessary nutrients, and pretty much any plant "should" do well in that medium.

But so long as their nutritional needs are met TGA plants should be able to do well in a variety of growing conditions. Having or not having supersoil shouldn't be the "make or break" factor in growing TGA plants (or any plants).

why would it be better in super soil I could see if he took years to stablize the strains in super soil but he changed his recipe for super soil recently so it obviously wasn't the best. soil or hydro shouldn't matter as long as they get everything they need

bluntmassa1 · Jul 8, 2012

thats funny why haven't you posted anything in subcools section? if your interested in DQ I smell bullshit I mean you join a site just to stick up for a breeder you haven't even tried. some strains are more prone to herm than others and its not always the growers fault.

TheMan13 said:
You all are too funny! I think I'll fit right in

I am neither Sub nor a troll. I have read threads here forever and decided to join today...

I came across this thread today as I am considering a Dairy Queen grow and the title "TGA Strains Stable?" caught my attention.

After reading through the comments I was glad to hear nothing bad about DQ, but left with the impression some writers may have a ax to grind with Sub.

I am no expert, but I do have some experience and chose to put my two cents in. If I were to experience a hermi, I would look to my growing environment before blaming the breeder of the seed.

T Ray · Jul 8, 2012

Capt. Stickyfingers said:
My Jilly Bean was beautiful and had really nice coloring, lots of dense buds, nice smell, but hermed and was mediocre smoke. Looks can be deceiving. That's why I don't buy strains solely based on pictures and high times covers. Matt knows Sub personally so there is going to be some bias there, and the other dudes get free shit from Sub so there is some bias there too. Might as well tell us what Subs mom thinks of him too. I can tell you out of everything I've grown and smoked myself and smoked from others, TGAs been some of the least potent shit and the herms just turned me off even more.

How many Jilly Beans did you grow out? I'm not saying that every seed is going to be a gem. Like anything, you do have to have some selection and not everything is going to be a keeper.

And I agree that there is some bias with some of those guys, but theres no denying it's dank. However, Nugbuckets if I remember correctly paid for the majority of his TGA genetics through seeds banks just like everyone else. Including that AOS. Hovering has lab tests also to back up what it is he is growing. Call TGA strains weak if you will, but Hov's lab test results look pretty legit to me.

For example.....heres Hov's Plushberry thread with lab results.People can say what they want about Plushberry, but if I got a chance to grow something with those profiles/numbers and those looks, but have to sort through a some hermans/nanners, I'd do it every time.

https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/533035-tga-plushberry-hovering.html

Captain Sticky, I have at least seen some of your grows and know you can grow dank (unlike others who have posted), but I just think you had a bad experience/luck with TGA.

To each there own. I can only go on my experiences and for me it has been a good one.

T-Ray

TheMan13 · Jul 8, 2012

I hear ya Brother, but I stick with my opinion stress is the #1 cause of hermies. That said, many hybrid strains can be temperamental. Cuts are chosen by breeders for their strengths. These strong plants could also carry a trait of heightened selfpreservation leading them to hermi given the right conditions. I guess you have to take the bad with the good, mother nature is just funny that way. It would still be hard to single out TGA for such a transgression.

althor · Jul 8, 2012

TheMan13 said:
I hear ya Brother, but I stick with my opinion stress is the #1 cause of hermies. That said, many hybrid strains can be temperamental. Cuts are chosen by breeders for their strengths. These strong plants could also carry a trait of heightened selfpreservation leading them to hermi given the right conditions. I guess you have to take the bad with the good, mother nature is just funny that way. It would still be hard to single out TGA for such a transgression.

No, but you could single him out for selling abunch of F1s and calling them strains. Why cant he take the time to f4-f5 some of these strains and get some uniformity out of them? Or, how about he drops the price down to what F1s should be. This is the new fad with commercial breeders. They want to take a father and 25 different clones of dank strains and seed them all up. Slap a name on the bi-product and act like they have done something special with a super dollar price tag. Thats not breeding. That is nothing more than letting nature do its thing and charging big prices for it.

When I start seeing f5s + out of TGA gear I will start considering him a real breeder. Until that time he is just a guy with some good clones, making bank off other people's work.

T Ray · Jul 8, 2012

Gamer621 said:
No, It is welcomed.

*Looks left*
*Looks right*
*Looks up*
*Looks down*
*Looks behind*

Nope, No logic or common sense to be found. Just subcool fanbois that keep telling us to look at grow journals of sub's friends.

Go look at the beginning of TC threads to when he first joined. He was not Subcool's friend til after he grew out TGA. Same with Nug's, same with alot of us. We grew TGA and realized it was dank and Sub found us realizing that we had growing skills. Yes, we are friends with Sub now, but that because we all have the same goal and that to legalize and grow dank.

Hell I didn't even buy Sub's genetics until after I used his supersoil and it worked so good, I had to thank him by buying some of his genetics. Been sold ever since. Go ahead and take a look, most TGA people that are well respected are because they grow dank and were not TGA/Subcool's friends until after he seen there work. It's not like I just was Subcool's friend right off the bat. I had to get some respect and show my skills first. It took me over 6 months of journaling before I recieved anything to test for TGA and through my good work Sub has rewarded me.

Go look at my Qush smoke report, you will see I only rated it a 7. I am a no bullshit type guy. Some people really liked it and couldn't believe I only gave it a 7, but it wasn't for me. Qrazy Train had two females didn't really like either. Only ran 2 seeds so I didn't feel I ran enough to give a fair assessment/smoke report, but the two I did weren't for me.

As I have always said you have to search to find great/elite phenos. If you think everytime you crack a 10 pack your going to find a great/elite pheno, your mistaken. I think finding a really good one is def reasonable to expect, but elites are elites for a reason.

T-Ray

Mithrandir420 · Jul 8, 2012

hovering said:
Ha! I just grow for my patients and do journals.

Sorry man. I have no agenda except for my patients health and well-being (I am a patient too).

--------------

edit: I started running TGA because it is they are the only genetics available to me locally. I keep running TGA genetics because I like them.

Yes you do, you're hoping to become one of his testers, if you're not already. If you're already a tester you absolutely have an agenda.

I do think that Subcool is a pollen chucker (like most breeders these days) and a hypster on the order of PT Barnum, but I am willing to give the gear a go because he has some good reviews, as well as the bad ones. Sp I am running my first TGA gear. Popped 5 plushberry seeds. We'll see what happens but so far (appx 45 days) they look good. Healthy and vigorous.

After looking at the various journals and grow reports I am more of a fan of the people growing the gear (Matt Rize, TCurtus, etc.) than I am of Subcool. And some of the people in his forum are pretty cool, even if they are fanbois.

I do agree with his stance on femme seeds, though. They are bad for the overall genetic pool.

Da Almighty Jew · Jul 8, 2012

I bought 4 querkle seeds. got 3 females. Beautiful smoke, not the most incredibly potent smoke but damn that shit was still great. Taste, smell, high phenomenal. All turned purple with 68 degrees at night. No hermies. Cloned them all and am flowering them again. Its the end of week 5 and still no hermies. Cloned the querkle again and am gonna run her again. She definetly earned a spot in my garden untill i find something better..... Im looking forward to grow out alot more of his gear. But im gonna go for something that knocks you out with killer potency next. Still would recomeend querkle to anybody who enjoys top notch 10/10 smoke.

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman · Jul 8, 2012

TheMan13 said:
You all are too funny! I think I'll fit right in

I am neither Sub nor a troll. I have read threads here forever and decided to join today...

I came across this thread today as I am considering a Dairy Queen grow and the title "TGA Strains Stable?" caught my attention.

After reading through the comments I was glad to hear nothing bad about DQ, but left with the impression some writers may have a ax to grind with Sub.

I am no expert, but I do have some experience and chose to put my two cents in. If I were to experience a hermi, I would look to my growing environment before blaming the breeder of the seed.

exactly, my plants only hermed on me once i tried to make them herm, on their own they did not show balls or nanners. i wantto breed with something bullet proof, sadly they were not... besides that 1 vortex and Nirvana's Blue mystic(no herms lol and i tried REALLY HARD to make a few herm) almost anything i put in my "stress Tent" goes herm for something, if it doesn't i'm not doing a good job at testing the clone's dexterity. if it herms, it's offspring will herm.

Da Almighty Jew · Jul 8, 2012

Alot of hermies are due to growers error. Before you bash subcool, bash yourself for being shitty growers.

kermit2692 · Jul 8, 2012

Gamer621 said:
Sponsored by Mountain Dew Red Alert of course.

mountain dew red alert sucks....you have bad taste

Jogro · Jul 8, 2012

T Ray said:
How many Jilly Beans did you grow out? I'm not saying that every seed is going to be a gem. Like anything, you do have to have some selection and not everything is going to be a keeper.

Well, many of the classic "name" strains are stable inbred lines, meaning that pretty much every plant in a pack is going to be substantially similar to every other one, and you shouldn't have to do any selection to find a good plant. They're all "keepers". F1 crosses of truly inbred lines should also all be substantially similar, and again, no selection (or minimal) should be necessary to get a good plant.

With hybrid strains, good breeders will do multiple generations of selection out to F4 or F5, so that either all the phenos are good, or at worst, there are only a small number you need to pick through to get the best one. A truly "stable" hybrid will only put out 2, or at most 4 phenotypes. The problem is it actually takes a lot of skill as a breeder, plus quite a bit of time and work to get there. That's why there are a lot of "crossers" (ie "pollen chuckers") but not that many true breeders.

The question here isn't whether or not you can grow lots of plants to find a keeper. The question is, if you're paying $100 per pack for "boutique" seeds, how many plants and how many packs SHOULD you have have to grow out to find a great one?

If a given "strain" is represented as having a certain scent/flavor, potency, and cannabinoid profile, but you have to grow out literally 10-20 plants to find one that matches the ad copy, isn't that a problem?

T Ray · Jul 8, 2012

Jogro said:
Well, many of the classic "name" strains are stable inbred lines, meaning that pretty much every plant in a pack is going to be substantially similar to every other one, and you shouldn't have to do any selection to find a good plant. They're all "keepers". F1 crosses of truly inbred lines should also all be substantially similar, and again, no selection (or minimal) should be necessary to get a good plant.

With hybrid strains, good breeders will do multiple generations of selection out to F4 or F5, so that either all the phenos are good, or at worst, there are only a small number you need to pick through to get the best one. A truly "stable" hybrid will only put out 2, or at most 4 phenotypes. The problem is it actually takes a lot of skill as a breeder, plus quite a bit of time and work to get there. That's why there are a lot of "crossers" (ie "pollen chuckers") but not that many true breeders.

The question here isn't whether or not you can grow lots of plants to find a keeper. The question is, if you're paying $100 per pack for "boutique" seeds, how many plants and how many packs SHOULD you have have to grow out to find a great one?

If a given "strain" is represented as having a certain scent/flavor, potency, and cannabinoid profile, but you have to grow out literally 10-20 plants to find one that matches the ad copy, isn't that a problem?

So basically what your saying is that if for example I got a pack of seeds from Shanti, Chimera, Bodhi, that within 10 seeds I will find a "great"/elite strain each time I cracked a pack that matched the description of the elite mother? I'm sorry to say bud, but that is far from the truth. If that was the case then people wouldn't need/seek elite cuts because they could just easily make there own.

I hear what your saying about his strains not matching up with whats advertised, but to be honest I don't think you've grown enough TGA to have that opinion. Nor do I believe that you actually have any facts to your claims.

I have read many of your well thought out statements and they remind me of Bricktops alot, in that they say a lot to make it appear you know your shit but in the end your a copy and paster without much real experience with the topic at hand. Narcissism is the first thought that comes to mind when reading your posts. You think you are so damn smart. It's the internet and anyone can be a google master.

So tell me Jogro, how many TGA seeds have you cracked and grown out/journal to come to these conclusions you come up with out of thin air? I can prove my results with facts based on journals and experience with TGA...can you?

And since I actually answer the questions that people ask me, I would say that in a 10 pack of TGA that you will get a "good" representation of what is being advertised. Elites are elites because it takes many many beans to find them hiding in the genetic code. You Mr. Knowitall should already know that.

T-Ray

hovering · Jul 8, 2012

Mithrandir420 said:
Yes you do, you're hoping to become one of his testers, if you're not already. If you're already a tester you absolutely have an agenda.

I do think that Subcool is a pollen chucker (like most breeders these days) and a hypster on the order of PT Barnum, but I am willing to give the gear a go because he has some good reviews, as well as the bad ones. Sp I am running my first TGA gear. Popped 5 plushberry seeds. We'll see what happens but so far (appx 45 days) they look good. Healthy and vigorous.

After looking at the various journals and grow reports I am more of a fan of the people growing the gear (Matt Rize, TCurtus, etc.) than I am of Subcool. And some of the people in his forum are pretty cool, even if they are fanbois.

I do agree with his stance on femme seeds, though. They are bad for the overall genetic pool.

What are you so angry about? You haven't even finished one TGA strain and you are all negative and shit.

That bad energy is gonna fuck up your plants man. Take it easy bro.

OGEvilgenius · Jul 8, 2012

Clankie said:
Gotta say this is not filling me with confidence towards the Dairy Queen and Chernobyl freebies I have going right now, especially since I'm not particularly interested in keeping them, genetics-wise. While the breeding of polyhybrids can produce a superplant, with desirable characteristics from three or four different powerful strains, it is also likely (often more so) to produce plants that carry one or more undesirable characteristic from these plants. While it is true that plants often herm because of climate-related stress, it is also true that there is a genetic predisposition to do so, and while seed created by an intersex/herm plant will be more likely to carry that disposition, seed created by a herm plant pollinating itself is almost guaranteed to carry the disposition and will likely herm under stress that would normally not induce such a mutation. I'm definitely not saying they have used herms as parent stock in their genetic pool at TGA, but with all these complaints I'm definitely not saying they never have, or that they do not have polyhybrids that have herm prone plants somewhere in their genetic makeup. In addition, one problem with non-stabilized polyhybrids is that they carry a great deal of genetic instability in one generation, with a massive pool of potential genetics, which makes them prone to mutations such as intersex/herm behavior. I have actually yet to have a plant herm on me, but most of what I have grown has been cloned from first gen mothers of Sensi, Serious, MNS, and Next Generation seedstock.

edit: Good lord they use their space queen (romulan x cindy 99) genetics in fucking everything, but that seems to be the common thread running through all of the plants you folks seem to have had herm problems with. Does he have like one set of SQ male plant genetics and then just pollinate everyfuckingthing he can find with it, and then either just call it good or backcross it with the non-SQ parent? I'm not trying to be rude, but that's just lame.

Excellent post... Fem seeds and poly hybrids suffer the same potential issues. That being said, some serious dank can be found as well (and has been). Haze was/is a polyhybrid. It's also probably the best smoke ever created.

And yeah, he has used his SQ father in a lot of crosses.

OGEvilgenius · Jul 8, 2012

Grojak said:
He sells his beans for 40 a pack locally, I picked up some beans at a local event (they didn't even check for my paperwork which is shady, I had it though), I know he was making more than $1 a pack there!!

Per seed. Seed =/= pack.

Most of the folks hating here need to understand what they are getting... potentially incredible plants, a lot of recessive genetics (which isn't always good) and a requirement to pheno hunt somewhat.... find the right pheno though and you will never let it go, I have no doubt.

And Sub doesn't breed all his gear in his small personal room. He has a network of guys all over doing tests etc etc. Any time people complain about hermies one has to be careful they absolutely weren't at fault as well.

My advice to all here? Grow em yourself, see if you like what you find. If not, then you probably have no place to comment. If you've grown them and don't like em, please share, but also understand that 5 seeds is hardly a good basis to judge anything. The stability of most strains is pretty bad given the plant limits most breeders have to work with. It isn't like growing out the carrots you can buy at the nursery which are always the same because they grew millions of plants and spent many years stabilizing them.

I think sometimes people just get lucky with some breeders gear and unlucky with others and are just way too quick to write them off or promote - one way or the other.

OGEvilgenius · Jul 8, 2012

Barrelhse said:
I ran a nice Cheesequake pheno for about 18 mos, usually pulled a few bananas off here and there but no real probs. I have a Plushberry at 7 wks, also throwing a few bananas. I don't worry about that if it's just a few, many varieties do it- just pick out the bananas with tweezers and they're fine. I've done several TGA singles and never had a hermie issue, althuogh some of the strains didn't really live up to the propaganda. The only full hermie I ever had was a Critical Sensi Star- beautiful plant, frosted and lemony at 5 wks, then threw out huge clusters of male flowers everywhere so I had to yank it.

EDIT: I haven't looked for a day or 2, just went down and found a lot more bananas than I'd like on a 52 day Plushberry. Most seemed to be on the buds on just one branch so I took that one off. Too bad, it's just getting some magenta hues that I didn't think would come out on this one. I have another one 2 wks behind this with no bananas yet.

That's the other thing... if it's sprouting some nanners but they are all sterile anyway, who cares?

TGA Strains Stable?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member