Thank you ! I love growing !

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
I'm reading this and agreeing, before I got to the end I was thinking strips also as a good option.
I will run this grow as it is. I'm in a good position to run it as is right now to see how long I can preserve the leaves.

I am trying different foliar sprays. Small doses of seaweed extract or Epsom salt or fish emulsion along with water only sprays. I should probably make a tea with fresh EWC.

Side lighting would make all the difference I agree and I will try it in time but this grow is to see how well they can be preserved without side lighting.

My thoughts are still different on why they would do better with side lighting.
You say the side lighting will stop the plant from throwing off the leaves without light.
I feel the reason the leaves will do better and survive longer with additional side light is because the light will increase transpiration allowing the leaf to better maintain it's health.

Yeah, a leaf getting light has for sure a higher leaf temps as a leaf getting no light and therefor you get also higher transpiration.

BTW, we can vote already in the party cup comp winner and only you, ssgrower and bgt are left over and have not voted. All the other have already..
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
I think this link is more interesting @Kushash , it covers senescence specific to shading of different levels of single parts of plants rather than whole plants.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-3040.2011.02474.x
Its very in depth.

I wonder if we have two different causes of leaf death going on , mine been leaf drop due to shaded leaves that are not carrying their weight photosynthetically and yours maybe been a simple relocation of nutrients due to a deficit in your soil late in flower?
Possibly that could be why mine drop on their own and yours cling on ?

Its far to early for me to get my head around. :sleep:
I'm going to read it.
Looks technical and long so it will take a while lol.
Your comment on leaf drop reminds me of something else.
My stems are incredibly strong on leaves that don't drop off.
I have also had many grow where leaves did drop off.
Sometime I'd end up with a pile each day during a grow.
Lots of reasons with all of them likely being grow errors I made.
Hasn't happened in decades so I'm going off of memory. ;)
If I recall, when I have that type of leaf drop I also will likely have easy to break weak stems.
I'm wondering what the stems were like when yours drop?
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
Yeah, a leaf getting light has for sure a higher leaf temps as a leaf getting no light and therefor you get also higher transpiration.

BTW, we can vote already in the party cup comp winner and only you, ssgrower and bgt are left over and have not voted. All the other have already..
OK!
I haven't checked the thread out in a bit. I only saw Opie's vote.
How many days do I have left to vote?
 

Dougnsalem

Well-Known Member
Being an older newb, I tend to look for answers to my questions, rather than asking. These guys (and many more of you), have given me TONS of information, and they don't even know it. Thanks MUCH!.....

@Roger A. Shrubber (Who can hate a Trekkie anyways??? Lol)

Larry, @too larry , and his other brother Larry (love the outdoor camping and hiking stories!)

@hotrodharley (Ok, so your avatar got me reading your posts.... Good stuff though!)

@Dr. Who
@coreywebster
@Kingrow1
@Renfro
@xtsho
@rollitup
@OldMedUser

Again, there's many more. Thanks!
 
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coreywebster

Well-Known Member
I'm going to read it.
Looks technical and long so it will take a while lol.
Your comment on leaf drop reminds me of something else.
My stems are incredibly strong on leaves that don't drop off.
I have also had many grow where leaves did drop off.
Sometime I'd end up with a pile each day during a grow.
Lots of reasons with all of them likely being grow errors I made.
Hasn't happened in decades so I'm going off of memory. ;)
If I recall, when I have that type of leaf drop I also will likely have easy to break weak stems.
I'm wondering what the stems were like when yours drop?
I will have a look at my stems when i have some drop.
Yeah its a bloody long read is that link, mashed my mind somewhat :eyesmoke:
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
OK!
I haven't checked the thread out in a bit. I only saw Opie's vote.
How many days do I have left to vote?
We all have voted already and wait for your vote. The dawg said, the sooner all members have voted the sooner he can call the winners. Till now its an exciting head to head race with thegermling and it seems you are the tougue on the scale, bro.
(Wished I had voted you at least the 3rd, shit! Now I get the bill for that, damned!)
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
We all have voted already and wait for your vote. The dawg said, the sooner all members have voted the sooner he can call the winners. Till now its an exciting head to head race with thegermling and it seems you are the tougue on the scale, bro.
(Wished I had voted you at least the 3rd, shit! Now I get the bill for that, damned!)
OK!
I only read the 1st line of your responce.
I'm going to go through the pictures now and vote without reading any of the votes that way my thoughts are not influenced.
 

GreeneryBob

Well-Known Member
@Randomblame do you know of a similar housing/diffuser for EB2 strips? I am thinking of using the new EB3s (when available) for side and/or lower lighting and having covers to mitigate water damage to the diodes and/or plant burning would make it much better.

If the goal this run is to keep them leaves alive as long as possible than I would just add some sidelight. If not enough light is one factor why plants throw off leaves than its easy to eliminate this factor.
I've used 2 EBgen2 5k strips in the party cup comp and have lost not a single leaf in 14 weeks. I've lollipopped her a bit in week 5 and have removed a few of the bigger fan leaves to reduce shaded areas but no more. The brightness level in the bottom area was just 5-8klx depending on the distance(5klx around the stem) and even on the lowest nodes there were small but fully dense nugs and no larf.
I've never tried using sidelights before that comp but I will for sure add some of the LED-tech strips as sidelights(50cm, 10mm wide, 98 LM301b) to both of my areas(veg and bloom). I've found strip housings with clear or diffuse pmma cover pretty cheap(2m a tenner) I can use to avoid contact burnings and make them almost waterproof. I only need a few more of those end caps when I cut each profil in 4pcs á 50cm length.
View attachment 4334149




No, he meant the example I've used againt o show what trees do and why. Indoors we don't mimic autumn and winter, autumn a little but not all of us and cannabis is no tree anyway.
Indoors one of the most important reasons why it happens is not enough light. Add some sidelight and give these lower leaves something to do and the plant will not consider them as useless. I've tested the brightness level around the stem(at soil level) and found ~5-8klx and is was already enough. Only the leaves closer to the sidelights had a lot more light cuz some leaves have touched them but I've rotated the plant every 2 days by 90° to reduce the risk to damage this leaves.
But even the leaves farer away had still enough light to stay green and develope some decent nugs. F...k! I had only half that much trim like usually. That's maybe also strain dependent but I think it has also to do with the sidelights. I need just a few more grows to evaluate it better.

Are you limited to the current lights or is it still possible to add some more sidelights? 2ft EBgen2 strips cost ~7$ and you could drive 5 of them in parallel on an HLG-60 or 80H-20B(~30$). Up to 80w sidelight, dimmable if you want, for ~70 bucks. These strips don't need heat sinks..
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
@Randomblame do you know of a similar housing/diffuser for EB2 strips? I am thinking of using the new EB3s (when available) for side and/or lower lighting and having covers to mitigate water damage to the diodes and/or plant burning would make it much better.
No, I've not found them 25mm wide but maybe you can find something at alibaba. Another solution is to simply use alu U-channels wide enough and use plexi glas strips as lens covers. End caps you could make yourself. I already thought about using EBgen3 series myself cause they cost only 7 bucks in 2ft length. The others are even more efficient but they cost twice as much. You could cut the plexiglas strips with a jigsaw and cut with a 5° angle on both length sides to make it fit better inside the channels and a few drops of hotglue would be enough to hold them in place. Only make sure to use enough tape to protect the glas surface from getting scratched.
 
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Kushash

Well-Known Member
I will have a look at my stems when i have some drop.
Yeah its a bloody long read is that link, mashed my mind somewhat :eyesmoke:
I read some really great information in that link.
Some of it was way to technical for me.

I did not see that they misted the leaves of the plant in the experiment.
In my case I am misting and attempting to replace the proteins in the leaves with a variety of foliar sprays.

This is the chapter that I'm referring to where they write about protein loss in the leaves.
Different levels of leaf shading result in differential protein degradation profiles.



It has been a week, here is an update.
I took some good pictures of leaves hanging on today.
You can see the stem almost completely dry on one that will fall off in a day or two if I left it there. On the others the stem will slowly dry out over the period of days if I leave them.

The top of the 5 gallon pots are 65" from the glass covers.
Many leaves are laying on the edges of the pots.
There are a lot of leaves between 55" and 65" from the cover.

I'm going to pluck all of these dying leaves after the pictures.
These were mostly small leaves from the 3rd real set.
I think the 4th set will be more resilient.
The 1st picture is from a clone the rest are from seed.

These are thin lanky sativa hybrids and maybe more light is getting through to the lower leaves than in other situations. They will continue to fill out and it will get darker down there in time. Time will tell! :eyesmoke:

100_1479.JPG 100_1480.JPG 100_1481.JPG

This one is obviously more advanced than the others and if I didn't pluck it today it would fall off in a day or two. Note the stem slowly dying back and is still somewhat healthy where it meets the trunk.100_1487.JPG 100_1486.JPG
 
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