THC vs CBD

you need to go by the trichs not the pistils. if they are cloudy it will be a good heady high, if they are like 30-35% its more body, couchlock

Hairs can be bad indicators. Some turn early, some never turn and a lot depends on the strain. The radio shack scope for trichs is a bit of a pain, but a better read then hairs. Those USB scopes have come down in price ($35-$40). I'm eager to try one.

mindphuk said:

I have read that Ed Rosenthal recently has claimed that terpenes, the stuff responsible for the smell and taste, may also play a role in the quality and type of high.

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*true, you'll find Ed stating that in his book(s).. but he didnt do the research that led to that scientific tid-bit ..terpenes-flavanoids-bioflavanoids-etc-unknown-etc, so much more left to discover

--cheers

cannawizard said:

*true, you'll find Ed stating that in his book(s).. but he didnt do the research that led to that scientific tid-bit ..terpenes-flavanoids-bioflavanoids-etc-unknown-etc, so much more left to discover

--cheers

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yeah, theres SO MUCH stuff in cannabis. we are only beginning to discover things about it. imagine when we know about every cannabanoid, and what it does to the body in relation to others. THC by itself will make you go crazy, but combined with CBD and some CBN, u feel good. so those other cannabanoids may have special abilities when combined with other cannabanoids, or other substances, at ratios that are not naturally found in the plant. there may be advantages to cannabanoids that the plant could never(very unlikely) produce

really interesting post, i always wanted to no this but never could be botherd to research it :L

there are currently 85 identified cannabonoids in cannabis
Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), cannabidiol (CBD) and cannabinol (CBN) are the most prevalent natural cannabinoids and have received the most study. Other common cannabinoids are listed below:
CBG Cannabigerol
CBC Cannabichromene
CBL Cannabicyclol
CBV Cannabivarin
THCV Tetrahydrocannabivarin
CBDV Cannabidivarin
CBCV Cannabichromevarin
CBGV Cannabigerovarin
CBGM Cannabigerol Monoethyl Ether
source wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid
So i think we have lots to learn yet

Luger187 said:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2179604

check your trichs

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that is useful. thanks.

Ok so i'm not sure if this is an appropriate question for this post or this website at all but I have always wondered... First of all I am from the east cost and have always lived in small towns; from my experience weed comes in either the cheap brick stuff (shwag, commercial, etc.) mid grade, or high grade ("dank, headies," or other stuff by name.) When i first started smoking weed i loved every kind then after a bad experience with the best weed i've ever seen in my life and a gravity bong made from a 2 gallon jug i experienced unbearable anxiety from weed and quit smoking. i just assumed that it didn't agree with my personality and stopped smoking for about 5 years. after 4 years in the military and a 7 month deployment as a medic to iraq i was diagnosed of pstd. i was hesitant at first to try weed again but when i smoked some cheap, commercial stuff i was pleasantly surprised by the fact that it almost completely rid me of my symptoms. this only happens with the really cheap stuff (no matter how much i smoke) tho. any time i've smoked anything better it resulted in anxiety. i'm just wondering if this can be explained by the chemical content or if maybe i'm just still not becoming as high with the cheaper stuff. again i'm sorry for my lack of experience with different strains and such but where i am from is far different from the marijuana dispensaries of California that i've seen on tv lol. any response would be greatly appreciated as i would love to understand this. thanks

GranDaddy Purple said:

During the later stages, when flower production has slowed, THC is degrading to other related chemicals such as CBD.

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THC, CBD and CBC come from THCA, CBDA and CBCA, which all come from CGBA. When THC oxidizes, when it degrades it becomes CBN.






CANNABINOL (CBN)




Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production. CBN is only mildly psychoactive and can cause "fuzzy head", drowsiness, disorientation and sleepiness in the smoker, properties that can be considered unpleasant in nature compared to the clear high of the THC.


The capitate-stalked glandular trichome changes color as it matures. Newly formed and immature glands are clear, glands reaching optimum THC production are cloudy or milky and amber trichomes have already passed their peak. By looking at the trichomes you can also determine the best time to harvest your plants. When most trichomes have gone cloudy and a few amber ones have appeared, the plant is at its peak.





THE PROPAGATION, CHARACTERISATION AND OPTIMISATION OF CANNABIS SATIVA L AS A PHYTOPHARMACEUTICAL
A thesis submitted by
David Potter JP
MIBiol CBiol FLS CMIOSH
In fulfilment of the requirement
for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy (PhD)
in Pharmaceutical Sciences
Department of Pharmaceutical Science Research
King’s College London
March 2009

http://www.scribd.com/doc/45314555/D...ter-PhD-Thesis




The relationship between trichome colour and cannabinoid content is shown in Figure 3.22. The data were more evenly spread than those from the corresponding trichome density study. The slope of the regression line shows that there is a weak but significant tendency for darker coloured trichomes to be associated with low-potency cannabis samples.

The comparison between trichome colour and CBN content showed that the lower average potency in darker colour trichomes could be almost entirely due the THC having catabolised in these samples.

https://www.opengrow.com/topic/37830-herijuanaa-smoke-report/

according to this report (seems he harvested early) he still got stoned indicating its more of a strain characteristic first, than when you harvest ..

sickstoner said:

what is cbd?

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CANNABIDIOL (CBD)





Cannabidiol is nonpsychoactive and was initially thought to have no effect on the psycho activity of THC. Recent evidence however show that smokers of cannabis are less likely to experience schizophrenia-like symptoms if there is a higher CBD to THC ratio. Experiments show that participants experienced less intense psychotic effects when intravenous THC was co-administered with CBD. It has been hypothesized that CBD acts as an allosteric antagonist at the CB1 receptor and thus alters the psychoactive effects of THC, resulting in a more easily manageable high.

CBD is generally considered to have more medicinal properties than THC. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation (and thereby also migraines), anxiety and nausea. That is why strains with a high concentration of CBD is suitable for medicinal use.

Although CBD has its own particular medicinal value it is not more important than THC when it comes to treating various afflictions. It is the interaction between the two that gives rise to the effect that sometimes alleviates the symptoms of various medical conditions.

CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that its effect is mostly in the body and not so much in the head. CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC cannabis strains like hemp.

Landrace strains, usually of indica heritage, contain higher concentrations of CBD than recreational drug strains, which are usually bred towards a higher concentration of THC.

P@TFARMER$ said:

u can also look through a microscope an if ur crystals have a brown or tan tint to it or if they are brown or tan then ur shit is ready to be dryed out an cured.THEN U ENJOY.

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No, if you see those colors you have waited to long to harvest and have lost THC allowing it to degrade into mildly psychoactive CBN, the primary waste product of oxidized THC.

prizm23a said:

is it just me or is that 50/50 pic lacking half amber?

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That is an old out of date incorrect trichome color chart made when less was known about cannabinoids and peak potency levels.

That is one problem with the Internet. Old out of date incorrect information is never purged and people find it and accept it as being up to date and accurate. But much of what was considered to be true 5, 10, 20 or 30 or more years ago has been proven to be incorrect. You can still find charts of the biosynthesis of THC where it is claimed that THC comes directly from CBD. That was proven to be incorrect a good number of years back, but you can still easily enough find the charts and information that went with it that was believed to be correct back in the 70's and 80's, and because the incorrect information still exists online some people believe it is still up to date and accurate.

Luger187 said:

THC by itself will make you go crazy, but combined with CBD and some CBN, u feel good.

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CBN is only mildly psychoactive and it causes the smoker to feel a "fuzzy head", drowsiness, disorientation and sleepiness. That is not how I would define; "u feel good."

mindphuk said:

I have read that Ed Rosenthal recently has claimed that terpenes, the stuff responsible for the smell and taste, may also play a role in the quality and type of high.

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That is true. It might be fairly recent news to Ed, but researchers have known for some time that certain terpenoids, like certain cannabinoids, do work with cannabinoids to enhance or detract from them. Some are not strictly aromatic compounds.


Here Is A Partial List Of Terpenes/Terpenoids Present in Cannabis




monoterpenoids (C10H16)

alloaromadendrene (pb)
camphene (pb)
Δ3-carene (pb)
limonene (pb)
trans-linalool oxide (pb)
myrcene (pb)
β-myrcene
cis-epoxy-ocimene
trans-β-ocimene (pb)
β-phellandrene (pb)
α-pinene (pb)
β-pinene (pb)
sabicene hydrate
α-terpinene (pb)
γ-terpinene (pb)
terpinolene
epoxy-terpinolene


monoterpenoids (C10H180)

linalool (pb)
terpinene-4-ol (pb)
α-terpineol (pb)


monoterpene phenols (C10H14O)

para cymene-8-ol (pb)


sesquiterpenoids (C15H24)

α-bergamotene
cis-α-bergamotene (pb)
trans-α-bergamotene (pb)
β-bisabolene (pb)
β-bourbonene (pb)
Δ-cadinene (pb)
γ-cadinene (pb)
caryophyllene oxide (pb)
β-caryophyllene (pb)
isocaryophyllene (pb)
α-copaene (pb)
curcumene
β-farnesene
trans-β-farnesene
germacrene B (pb)
α-guaiene (pb)
α-humulene
epoxy humulene
α-muurolene (pb)
γ-muurolene (pb)
nerolidol
selina-3,7(11)-diene
α-selinene (pb)
7-epi-α-selinene
β-selinene (pb)
γ-selinene (pb)
β-sesquiphellandrene (pb)
spathulenol (pb)
α-ylangene (pb)


aliphatic esters

hexyl butyrate (pb)


hetero compounds

hexyl hexanoate (pb)


phenylpropanes

trans-anethole (pb)


aromatic acids

phtalic acid diethyl ester


misc compounds

α,β-unsaturated ketone

I feel like this CBD vs THC argument goes to far, I mean if you want to get couch locked pick a strain that does that and let it get ripe. If you want a clear head high get a strain that does that and let it get ripe. I guess if you only have one strain it could make sense to harvest at different times so you can have slightly different batches but I would rather just get another strain for my desired effects.

MrDank007 said:

Hairs can be bad indicators. Some turn early, some never turn and a lot depends on the strain. The radio shack scope for trichs is a bit of a pain, but a better read then hairs. Those USB scopes have come down in price ($35-$40). I'm eager to try one.

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From Amazon - $39.95 Veho VMS-001 x20-x200 Magnification Discovery Digital USB Microscope with Alloy Stand

Great thread - confirmed and learned a lot from it.

Locked Up said:

I feel like this CBD vs THC argument goes to far, I mean if you want to get couch locked pick a strain that does that and let it get ripe. If you want a clear head high get a strain that does that and let it get ripe. I guess if you only have one strain it could make sense to harvest at different times so you can have slightly different batches but I would rather just get another strain for my desired effects.

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This is true for smokers. I'm not a real smoker. Just when I need to sleep. For my pain I want CBD's I want the earthy feel of my body the slight mesmerizing feel as I walk around but don't want the couch lock. I hate feeling stupid. There is so much more to this plant then studied. It's the stoners that say THC is all they want and that gives us med pat. A bad name. We need more real studies on other things then THC and CBD. How about CBA CBC CBN and the mixture of the noids within the plant we call weed?

CBD fights cancers and tumours

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4

Antitumor Effects

One study in mice and rats suggested that cannabinoids may have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. During this 2-year study, groups of mice and rats were given various doses of THC by gavage. A dose-related decrease in the incidence of hepatic adenoma tumors and hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) was observed in the mice. Decreased incidences of benign tumors(polyps and adenomas) in other organs (mammary gland, uterus, pituitary, testis, and pancreas) were also noted in the rats. In another study, delta-9-THC, delta-8-THC, and cannabinol were found to inhibit the growth of Lewis lung adenocarcinoma cells in vitro and in vivo .[4] In addition, other tumors have been shown to be sensitive to cannabinoid-induced growth inhibition.
Cannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis invasion and metastasis. One review summarizes the molecular mechanisms of action of cannabinoids as antitumor agents. Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death. These compounds have been shown to induce apoptosis in gliomacells in culture and induce regression of glioma tumors in mice and rats. Cannabinoids protect normal glial cells of astroglial and oligodendroglial lineages from apoptosis mediated by the CB1 receptor.

The effects of delta-9-THC and a synthetic agonist of the CB2 receptor were investigated in HCC. Both agents reduced the viability of HCC cells in vitro and demonstrated antitumor effects in HCC subcutaneous xenografts in nude mice. The investigations documented that the anti-HCC effects are mediated by way of the CB2 receptor. Similar to findings in glioma cells, the cannabinoids were shown to trigger cell death through stimulation of an endoplasmic reticulum stress pathway that activates autophagy and promotes apoptosis. Other investigations have confirmed that CB1 and CB2 receptors may be potential targets in non-small cell lung carcinoma and breast cancer.

An in vitro study of the effect of CBD on programmed cell death in breast cancer cell lines found that CBD induced programmed cell death, independent of the CB1, CB2, or vanilloid receptors. CBD inhibited the survival of both estrogen receptor–positive and estrogen receptor–negative breast cancercell lines, inducing apoptosis in a concentration-dependent manner while having little effect on nontumorigenic, mammary cells.

CBD has also been demonstrated to exert a chemopreventive effect in a mouse model of colon cancer. In the experimental system, azoxymethane increased premalignant and malignant lesions in the mouse colon. Animals treated with azoxymethane and CBD concurrently were protected from developing premalignant and malignant lesions. In in vitro experiments involving colorectal cancer cell lines, the investigators found that CBD protected DNA from oxidative damage, increased endocannabinoid levels, and reduced cell proliferation.

Another investigation into the antitumor effects of CBD examined the role of intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (ICAM-1). ICAM-1 expression has been reported to be negatively correlated with cancermetastasis. In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to decreased cancer cell invasiveness.

In an in vivo model using severe combined immunodeficient mice, subcutaneous tumors were generated by inoculating the animals with cells from human non-small cell lung carcinoma cell lines.[20] Tumor growth was inhibited by 60% in THC-treated mice compared with vehicle-treated control mice. Tumor specimens revealed that THC had antiangiogenic and antiproliferative effects. However, research with immunocompetent murine tumor models has demonstrated immunosuppression and enhanced tumor growth in mice treated with THC.

In addition, both plant-derived and endogenous cannabinoids have been studied for anti-inflammatoryeffects. A mouse study demonstrated that endogenous cannabinoid system signaling is likely to provide intrinsic protection against colonic inflammation. As a result, a hypothesis that phytocannabinoids and endocannabinoids may be useful in the risk reduction and treatment of colorectal cancer has been developed.

CBD may also enhance uptake of cytotoxic drugs into malignant cells. Activation of the transient receptor potential vanilloid type 2 (TRPV2) has been shown to inhibit proliferation of human glioblastoma multiforme cells and overcome resistance to the chemotherapy agent carmustine. In an in vitro model, CBD increased TRPV2 activation and increased uptake of cytotoxic drugs, leading to apoptosis of glioma cells without affecting normal human astrocytes. This suggests that coadministration of CBD with cytotoxic agents may increase drug uptake and potentiate cell death in human glioma cells.

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For me its pretty simple , you would only ever pick ripe fruits , so same applies to weed
If you like the wide awake stoned then go for a rushing sativa , and likewise if you like that sleepy high go for a hard hitting indica
Trouble is like a lot of things THC is the "brand name" and its what most strains are bred towards producing , but me being the person I am (question everything) did not believe this was the case I always found something missing from the high say compared to hashes
Its a matter of taste but if you never let a plant go 12 weeks you can't comment on what its like without experiencing it , trust me you get stoned no questions , I believe the high is stronger but again its down to personal tastes / experiences
Dont let society/people/forums (they all read the same quotes/books) tell you about stuff they have never tried themselves , its easy for people to jump on the bandwagon makes them not look like noobs .
All ill say is try it for yourself , maybe leave 1 plant to go those extra weeks , you might even want to post here help others .