So it seems there's a bit of disagreement in the marijuana community about these substances. Any decarboxylation guide will tell you that THCA is a non psychoactive compound that has relatively little effect unless it is converted to the psychoactive THC. But there are also voices out there who say that you can convert THC to THCA for a different, and some even say stronger, high. So, are there different types of THCA perhaps? One that is originally in the plant, and non psychoactive, and another that can be derived from THC, and is psychoactive? Do any of you out there have experience with converting THC to THCA?
THC vs THCA
- Thread starter bmrick
- Start date
dolamic
Well-Known Member
found this in my travels.....
Decarboxylation - A method of making the THC more psychoactive through controlled heating.
By Ed Rosenthal - Thursday, January 2 2003
Does marijuana have to be heated to become psychoactive?
I bought a Coldfinger to make an extract, but my problem is this: Doesn't marijuana have to be heated to become psychoactive?
My solution was to put the marijuana in the oven before putting it in the Coldfinger. But I have no idea how long I should leave it in there, let alone at what temperature. I know THC boils at 392 degrees F. But other cannabinoids, which are essential to the experience, boil off much more quickly. At what temperature can I decarboxylate the THC, while still preserving some of the cannabinoids?
Marijuana produces THCA, an acid with the carboxylic group (COOH) attached. In its acid form, THC is not very active. It is only when the carboxyl group is removed that THC becomes psychoactive. When marijuana is smoked, the THC behind the hot spot is vaporized as the hot air from the burn is drawn through the joint or pipe bowl to the unburned material. The liquid THC and other cannabinoids have a boiling point of between 180-200? C (355-392? F). Before they turn gaseous, at around 106? C (220? F), the carboxyl group is released from the molecule as carbon dioxide and water vapor.
You will be extracting the THC using low heat in the commercially made Coldfinger Extractor. (They have a very interesting online catalog at www.edenlabs.org). The THC will not reach a temperature in which decarboxylation takes place. However, if you plan to vaporize or smoke the extract decarboxylation will take place as the oil is used.
However, it is easy to make sure all the THC is decarboxylated and is at full strength before it is extracted. Although decarboxylation takes place rapidly at 106? C, it proceeds at a more gradual pace by placing the cannabis in a room with low relative humidity and room temperature. As the temperature rises, the rate of decarboxylation increases.
Cannabis can also be placed in a food dehydrator to remove the carboxyl group. Although the heat in the food dehydrator doesn't rise to 106? C, the temperature is warm enough to promote drying and the release of the water and CO2. When the marijuana is crispy and brittle you can be assured that the carboxyl group has been removed from the cannabinoids and they are ready for extraction or removal from the plant material.
Copied and pased from - http://www.cannabisc...icles/2794.html
This Article is also by Ed Rosenthal
When marijuana is harvested, the THC molecule is bound to a carboxyl group ? COOH ? that is, one atom each of carbon and hydrogen and two atoms of oxygen. With a carboxyl group attached, THC is not active.
Heating dried marijuana makes the carboxyl group convert into water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2). When marijuana is smoked, the burning eliminates the carboxyl group. There are several ways to decarboxylate marijuana for use in extracts. A layer of marijuana buds or leaf can be placed in an oven at 150 degrees for 15 minutes. This is far below the boiling point of THC yet warm enough to evaporate the carboxyl group. Another method of releasing the COOH is by placing a bowl of buds in the microwave for 2 minutes. The waves will boil away the water. The boiling point of marijuana's active cannabinoids ranges from 260-392 degrees F.
The Coldfinger is made by Eden Labs, a company in Ohio that makes several models of herbal extractors, from the simple to the most sophisticated. They can be found on the internet at www.edenlabs.org.
copied and pasted from - http://cannabiscultu...icles/3037.html
How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil
How to Decarboxylate and fry cannabis oil quickly and completely
Important points:
Decarboxylate in microwave or oven (oven takes more time)
Fry the cannabis until dark brown
Eat with a meal
Tools:
Butter or oil
Scissors
Microwave
Glass plate for microwave/oven dish for oven
Stainless Steel container or pot
Spoon
Stove
Total 6 grams in my photos, which will give you anywhere from 1 to 6 doses. This is just schwag. You can use any amount, just adjust the amount of oil (to submerge cannabis) accordingly.
Decarboxylation Details:
There are carboxyl-groupcontaining cannabinoids like cannabigerolic acid, cannabidiolic acid, which is an oxidocyclized version of cannabigerolic acid, and tetrahydrocannabinolic acid, that when they lose thier respective carboxyl group, become psychoactive.
Although all the pharmacologic literature I've read has focused on THCa, CBDa and CBGa, there are more phytocannabinoids that have a carboxyl group in them - who, after being decarboxylated - become psychoactive compounds. Nothing has shown CC's (carboxyl cannabinoids) to potentiate recreational use more then the same phytocannabinoids would as decarboxylated compounds. THIS is why you decarboxylate, to convert your THCa, CBDa, and CBGa all into non-acid forms, our beloved psychoactive compounds. So now that you know why to decarboxylate, here's how:
MICROWAVING
Microwave each set of 3 grams, for about 1 minute, 30 seconds to 2 minutes each. This is decarboxylation.
On the second batch, I re-microwaved for 1 minute to finish off.
Microwaving cannabis is safer then touching your cannabis with your hand.
If youâre decarboxylating small batches at a time you should learn how to do it in your microwave. And if it works one day, go extra time the next time. Youâll see its harder then you think to âburn upâ or âdestroyâ any active cannabinoids in the microwave. Your herb will smell stronger, more pungent and crumble with ease when itâs decarboxylated - oven OR microwave method.
In the oven, you are going to want to do it for longer then 20 minutes, depending on how much bud you have, itâs degree of dryness, and your chosen temp. 325 to 350 is well known to be safe. At these temps, 25 minutes or more is more than likely necessary. If it smells more dank after the oven decarboxylation than before, and crumbles very easily, its decarboxylated.
Alternatively, you can get a food dehydrator.
You can tell when it's ready, by the strong smell (not THC escaping, but terpenes escaping) and by pinching the bud in your index and thumb finger, and trying to crush it. If the small nugs crumble, it's decarboxylated. Decarboxylation is when the THC-acid molecule looses it's COOH group, converting it from an inactive kidney cleaner, into the psychedelic THC.
How well you decarboxylate, affected by how well you can discern when the cannabis has been decarboxylated, is 50% of making this oil as potent as possible. The other 50%, is frying it until it's dark brown.
If you skip this step, or use your cannabis without it crumbling and dry, it won't be the potent oil it can be.
NOTE: Re-microwaving is safe, if you microwaved for a minute and 30 seconds and it didnt fully decarboxylate, when re-microwaving the microwave has to re-heat the glass plate youre using to hold the plant.
NOTE 2: Always decarboxylate for at least one minute! Even if it's half a gram you're doing. 2 minutes in the microwave at once, does not equal two separate one minute microwaves. The key is to heat, in the microwave, the cannabis until it smells and crumbles like it's decarboxylated.
Does Microwaving Destroy THC?
Yesterday I used the microwave to decarboxylate another batch, but this time I microwaved for 2 minutes, three separate times. This decarboxylated the bud even more! 1 minute 30 seconds to 2 minutes is safe because the glass plate doesnt get hot enough to vaporize the cannabinoids.
Even if you stop it at 2 minutes, mix up the bud on the plate, and microwave for another 2 minutes, it's safe. 2 minute microwaves in two sets does NOT equal 4 minutes in the microwave. 4 minutes will burn your cannabis and cannabinoids, but two separate 2 minute sets works to decarboxylate better than once. Yesterdays batch was stronger and I used less bud, so I know that microwaving the same cannabis twice for 2 minutes each time is safe, and reccomended.
I left the bud with small nugs as you can see on the plate below, because when I try to crush these little nugs I can get a feel for wether the bud has decarboxylated. If they crumble, they are done.
Now you have your 6 (2 sets of 3) grams of decarboxylated cannabis, it should smell stronger then before, be extra dry and crumble when you try to crumble it.
This is where you add your oil/butter of choice to the container.
LARD
Lard is not the only fat you can cook with, any fat will do, but here's why I use it (among other fats for different occasions):
Lard can be cooked with any meat, and its good to fry in. Potatoes fried in lard, thats what they call chips in the UK. If youre going to use lard for your cannabis edibles I only recommend it if you like how it tastes by itself, and you eat it the way I do in the thread. Reason being, it would taste weird in brownies, and would probably not go well on any sweets in general. Lard works for meats and broths, soups and stocks.
I eat tablespoons of cannabis infused lard with my steak meals, but thats because I've learned that saturated fat is the healthiest fat, because we've been eating it for millenia. It has large amount of saturated and monounsaturated fat. I try to keep my diet at around 65-70% fat, 25% protien and 5-10% carbs. Now that I think about it, I wouldnt eat my infused lard any other way then straight with meat, or possibly soup.
Lard is such a cheap fat, like a dollar a pound, compared to olive oil or coconut oil. Not to mention it's perfect for for frying or cooking, since it has no particles like unrefined coco/olive oil, and tastes great on potatoes and plant foods. If I want to fry some potatoes, cook some meat with bell peppers, onion, or any other vegetables, I always use lard.
If your fat is solid at room temp, like butter or lard or any other saturated fat, melt the lard or butter in the container by itself until the fat becomes a liquid. You obviously melt the butter in the container or pot over the stovetop.
Only add enough to cover the cannabis in the same container!
You can always add extra fat later, remember, but you CANT TAKE ANY OIL OUT after the cannabis is added if you put too much.
Butter bubbles when fried, so butter can help reach any bud that gets stuck on the side of the container.
Combinations of butter and other fats work too.
This is the same container, with melted lard, cannabis, and see the white thing? Thats a little bit extra (solidified at room tempurature) lard for good measure.
Sometimes you need to add a little extra oil to make sure all the cannabis is submerged.
More oil to cannabis will spread out the amount of time it takes for your body to digest the oil and recieve the cannabinoids.
FRYING THE CANNABIS
That extra lard will quickly melt down into the rest of the oil.
By this time you have all of your decarboxylated cannabis inside the container, with sufficient fat to cover and submerge the cannabis.
For the frying, you only want to fry for under 5 minutes. The direct flame as you can see, heats the oil and cannabis in the container.
If you have an electric stove, use that, if you have an outdoor stove - thats even better - because there is a little bit of smoke and lots and lots of smell! This is okay and safe and you're doing it right, the smell is terpenes, not active cannabinoids.
Turn on the fans, open the windows, or if you can, do the entire frying process outside. Within about 20 minutes, the smell should dissipate anyway. But for extra safety, be ready to air out location.
Stir consistantly as it fries. It should be smelling and bubbling now. Fry like this, on a medium-high heat until dark brown. This is a fast process, about 5 minutes.
Once you think it's been fried DARK BROWN, wait an extra 30 seconds for good frying measure.
Then - careful not to burn yourself - take the container to cool outside.
When I took a look at the cannabis after being fried, I went back inside, turned the stove top on again, and fried it for an additional 2 minutes. This is because as you can see in the photographs, the cannabis was not COMPLETELY browned...
... This is of course optional, but the more you fry, the more potent the cannabis oil becomes (until you've fried it all out).
Leave it outside to cool and so the smell wont stink up your house, for about 10 minutes or so.
And there you have it! Potent, decarboxylated, properly fried cannabis oil that will knock you on your fucking ass, and then some.
You can have anything from mellow mood change(1/2 gram), regular fun trips(1-2.5 grams) or heroic doses(4 or more grams) with heroic highs using this method.
Anyone who told you that you couldn't actually have a psychedelic trip using cannabis, hasn't done this.
No matter what amount you eat, the effects last the entire day. With this method I only dose once a day, and some days I skip because the stone lingers from the day before.
Eat it with a good sized meal, preferably with protien, some fat and a small amount of carbs. It's safe to eat this infused oil with any meal including a high fat meal.
I don't separate the plant material because I eat the oil together with a meal. The plant material contains cannabinoids, you can separate it to use the oil in a recipe, and just eat the plant material separately. This does work for brownies or anything else.
Eat roughly a third to half of your meal, then take tablespoons of edibles as you desire, chase them down with water or a drink, and then finish eating.
Try to make this your 2nd meal of the day, first will work but you don't want first pass metabolism to get any cannabinoids in the oil. If you eat it as your first meal of the day, eat some food 20 minutes before you start taking the oil.
I dosed on this last night 3 grams, and saved the other 3 grams for tonight. I was so gone, 3 grams is actually a bit too much for me. I still feel the cannabinoids in my system more then 24 hours since dose time.
And this is schwag bud and prices. 3 grams comes out to about 3.50 to 4 dollars. The most prominent period of the high lasts for about 6 - 9 hours or more, depending.
I have done as low as 1/2 or a gram, and they still produce long term (6hr+) relief/benefit.
copied and pasted from - http://forum.grassci...nnabis-oil.html
Here's some links from "strain hunters" forums. The first two are from thread i posted some of this information in.
Easy Living Bud Hash Oil Tutorial by DanMacGrowsalot - http://www.strainhun...h__1#entry38854
Meet Puff the Magic Dragon
(Green Dragon Content) by Flial - http://www.strainhun...h__1#entry38430
Isomerization - increasing the potency of cannabis by 50% - byFuzzy - http://www.strainhun...__fromsearch__1
Decarboxylation - A method of making the THC more psychoactive through controlled heating.
By Ed Rosenthal - Thursday, January 2 2003
Does marijuana have to be heated to become psychoactive?
I bought a Coldfinger to make an extract, but my problem is this: Doesn't marijuana have to be heated to become psychoactive?
My solution was to put the marijuana in the oven before putting it in the Coldfinger. But I have no idea how long I should leave it in there, let alone at what temperature. I know THC boils at 392 degrees F. But other cannabinoids, which are essential to the experience, boil off much more quickly. At what temperature can I decarboxylate the THC, while still preserving some of the cannabinoids?
Marijuana produces THCA, an acid with the carboxylic group (COOH) attached. In its acid form, THC is not very active. It is only when the carboxyl group is removed that THC becomes psychoactive. When marijuana is smoked, the THC behind the hot spot is vaporized as the hot air from the burn is drawn through the joint or pipe bowl to the unburned material. The liquid THC and other cannabinoids have a boiling point of between 180-200? C (355-392? F). Before they turn gaseous, at around 106? C (220? F), the carboxyl group is released from the molecule as carbon dioxide and water vapor.
You will be extracting the THC using low heat in the commercially made Coldfinger Extractor. (They have a very interesting online catalog at www.edenlabs.org). The THC will not reach a temperature in which decarboxylation takes place. However, if you plan to vaporize or smoke the extract decarboxylation will take place as the oil is used.
However, it is easy to make sure all the THC is decarboxylated and is at full strength before it is extracted. Although decarboxylation takes place rapidly at 106? C, it proceeds at a more gradual pace by placing the cannabis in a room with low relative humidity and room temperature. As the temperature rises, the rate of decarboxylation increases.
Cannabis can also be placed in a food dehydrator to remove the carboxyl group. Although the heat in the food dehydrator doesn't rise to 106? C, the temperature is warm enough to promote drying and the release of the water and CO2. When the marijuana is crispy and brittle you can be assured that the carboxyl group has been removed from the cannabinoids and they are ready for extraction or removal from the plant material.
Copied and pased from - http://www.cannabisc...icles/2794.html
This Article is also by Ed Rosenthal
When marijuana is harvested, the THC molecule is bound to a carboxyl group ? COOH ? that is, one atom each of carbon and hydrogen and two atoms of oxygen. With a carboxyl group attached, THC is not active.
Heating dried marijuana makes the carboxyl group convert into water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2). When marijuana is smoked, the burning eliminates the carboxyl group. There are several ways to decarboxylate marijuana for use in extracts. A layer of marijuana buds or leaf can be placed in an oven at 150 degrees for 15 minutes. This is far below the boiling point of THC yet warm enough to evaporate the carboxyl group. Another method of releasing the COOH is by placing a bowl of buds in the microwave for 2 minutes. The waves will boil away the water. The boiling point of marijuana's active cannabinoids ranges from 260-392 degrees F.
The Coldfinger is made by Eden Labs, a company in Ohio that makes several models of herbal extractors, from the simple to the most sophisticated. They can be found on the internet at www.edenlabs.org.
copied and pasted from - http://cannabiscultu...icles/3037.html
How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil
How to Decarboxylate and fry cannabis oil quickly and completely
Important points:
Decarboxylate in microwave or oven (oven takes more time)
Fry the cannabis until dark brown
Eat with a meal
Tools:
Butter or oil
Scissors
Microwave
Glass plate for microwave/oven dish for oven
Stainless Steel container or pot
Spoon
Stove
Total 6 grams in my photos, which will give you anywhere from 1 to 6 doses. This is just schwag. You can use any amount, just adjust the amount of oil (to submerge cannabis) accordingly.
Decarboxylation Details:
There are carboxyl-groupcontaining cannabinoids like cannabigerolic acid, cannabidiolic acid, which is an oxidocyclized version of cannabigerolic acid, and tetrahydrocannabinolic acid, that when they lose thier respective carboxyl group, become psychoactive.
Although all the pharmacologic literature I've read has focused on THCa, CBDa and CBGa, there are more phytocannabinoids that have a carboxyl group in them - who, after being decarboxylated - become psychoactive compounds. Nothing has shown CC's (carboxyl cannabinoids) to potentiate recreational use more then the same phytocannabinoids would as decarboxylated compounds. THIS is why you decarboxylate, to convert your THCa, CBDa, and CBGa all into non-acid forms, our beloved psychoactive compounds. So now that you know why to decarboxylate, here's how:
MICROWAVING
Microwave each set of 3 grams, for about 1 minute, 30 seconds to 2 minutes each. This is decarboxylation.
On the second batch, I re-microwaved for 1 minute to finish off.
Microwaving cannabis is safer then touching your cannabis with your hand.
If youâre decarboxylating small batches at a time you should learn how to do it in your microwave. And if it works one day, go extra time the next time. Youâll see its harder then you think to âburn upâ or âdestroyâ any active cannabinoids in the microwave. Your herb will smell stronger, more pungent and crumble with ease when itâs decarboxylated - oven OR microwave method.
In the oven, you are going to want to do it for longer then 20 minutes, depending on how much bud you have, itâs degree of dryness, and your chosen temp. 325 to 350 is well known to be safe. At these temps, 25 minutes or more is more than likely necessary. If it smells more dank after the oven decarboxylation than before, and crumbles very easily, its decarboxylated.
Alternatively, you can get a food dehydrator.
You can tell when it's ready, by the strong smell (not THC escaping, but terpenes escaping) and by pinching the bud in your index and thumb finger, and trying to crush it. If the small nugs crumble, it's decarboxylated. Decarboxylation is when the THC-acid molecule looses it's COOH group, converting it from an inactive kidney cleaner, into the psychedelic THC.
How well you decarboxylate, affected by how well you can discern when the cannabis has been decarboxylated, is 50% of making this oil as potent as possible. The other 50%, is frying it until it's dark brown.
If you skip this step, or use your cannabis without it crumbling and dry, it won't be the potent oil it can be.
NOTE: Re-microwaving is safe, if you microwaved for a minute and 30 seconds and it didnt fully decarboxylate, when re-microwaving the microwave has to re-heat the glass plate youre using to hold the plant.
NOTE 2: Always decarboxylate for at least one minute! Even if it's half a gram you're doing. 2 minutes in the microwave at once, does not equal two separate one minute microwaves. The key is to heat, in the microwave, the cannabis until it smells and crumbles like it's decarboxylated.
Does Microwaving Destroy THC?
Yesterday I used the microwave to decarboxylate another batch, but this time I microwaved for 2 minutes, three separate times. This decarboxylated the bud even more! 1 minute 30 seconds to 2 minutes is safe because the glass plate doesnt get hot enough to vaporize the cannabinoids.
Even if you stop it at 2 minutes, mix up the bud on the plate, and microwave for another 2 minutes, it's safe. 2 minute microwaves in two sets does NOT equal 4 minutes in the microwave. 4 minutes will burn your cannabis and cannabinoids, but two separate 2 minute sets works to decarboxylate better than once. Yesterdays batch was stronger and I used less bud, so I know that microwaving the same cannabis twice for 2 minutes each time is safe, and reccomended.
I left the bud with small nugs as you can see on the plate below, because when I try to crush these little nugs I can get a feel for wether the bud has decarboxylated. If they crumble, they are done.
Now you have your 6 (2 sets of 3) grams of decarboxylated cannabis, it should smell stronger then before, be extra dry and crumble when you try to crumble it.
This is where you add your oil/butter of choice to the container.
LARD
Lard is not the only fat you can cook with, any fat will do, but here's why I use it (among other fats for different occasions):
Lard can be cooked with any meat, and its good to fry in. Potatoes fried in lard, thats what they call chips in the UK. If youre going to use lard for your cannabis edibles I only recommend it if you like how it tastes by itself, and you eat it the way I do in the thread. Reason being, it would taste weird in brownies, and would probably not go well on any sweets in general. Lard works for meats and broths, soups and stocks.
I eat tablespoons of cannabis infused lard with my steak meals, but thats because I've learned that saturated fat is the healthiest fat, because we've been eating it for millenia. It has large amount of saturated and monounsaturated fat. I try to keep my diet at around 65-70% fat, 25% protien and 5-10% carbs. Now that I think about it, I wouldnt eat my infused lard any other way then straight with meat, or possibly soup.
Lard is such a cheap fat, like a dollar a pound, compared to olive oil or coconut oil. Not to mention it's perfect for for frying or cooking, since it has no particles like unrefined coco/olive oil, and tastes great on potatoes and plant foods. If I want to fry some potatoes, cook some meat with bell peppers, onion, or any other vegetables, I always use lard.
If your fat is solid at room temp, like butter or lard or any other saturated fat, melt the lard or butter in the container by itself until the fat becomes a liquid. You obviously melt the butter in the container or pot over the stovetop.
Only add enough to cover the cannabis in the same container!
You can always add extra fat later, remember, but you CANT TAKE ANY OIL OUT after the cannabis is added if you put too much.
Butter bubbles when fried, so butter can help reach any bud that gets stuck on the side of the container.
Combinations of butter and other fats work too.
This is the same container, with melted lard, cannabis, and see the white thing? Thats a little bit extra (solidified at room tempurature) lard for good measure.
Sometimes you need to add a little extra oil to make sure all the cannabis is submerged.
More oil to cannabis will spread out the amount of time it takes for your body to digest the oil and recieve the cannabinoids.
FRYING THE CANNABIS
That extra lard will quickly melt down into the rest of the oil.
By this time you have all of your decarboxylated cannabis inside the container, with sufficient fat to cover and submerge the cannabis.
For the frying, you only want to fry for under 5 minutes. The direct flame as you can see, heats the oil and cannabis in the container.
If you have an electric stove, use that, if you have an outdoor stove - thats even better - because there is a little bit of smoke and lots and lots of smell! This is okay and safe and you're doing it right, the smell is terpenes, not active cannabinoids.
Turn on the fans, open the windows, or if you can, do the entire frying process outside. Within about 20 minutes, the smell should dissipate anyway. But for extra safety, be ready to air out location.
Stir consistantly as it fries. It should be smelling and bubbling now. Fry like this, on a medium-high heat until dark brown. This is a fast process, about 5 minutes.
Once you think it's been fried DARK BROWN, wait an extra 30 seconds for good frying measure.
Then - careful not to burn yourself - take the container to cool outside.
When I took a look at the cannabis after being fried, I went back inside, turned the stove top on again, and fried it for an additional 2 minutes. This is because as you can see in the photographs, the cannabis was not COMPLETELY browned...
... This is of course optional, but the more you fry, the more potent the cannabis oil becomes (until you've fried it all out).
Leave it outside to cool and so the smell wont stink up your house, for about 10 minutes or so.
And there you have it! Potent, decarboxylated, properly fried cannabis oil that will knock you on your fucking ass, and then some.
You can have anything from mellow mood change(1/2 gram), regular fun trips(1-2.5 grams) or heroic doses(4 or more grams) with heroic highs using this method.
Anyone who told you that you couldn't actually have a psychedelic trip using cannabis, hasn't done this.
No matter what amount you eat, the effects last the entire day. With this method I only dose once a day, and some days I skip because the stone lingers from the day before.
Eat it with a good sized meal, preferably with protien, some fat and a small amount of carbs. It's safe to eat this infused oil with any meal including a high fat meal.
I don't separate the plant material because I eat the oil together with a meal. The plant material contains cannabinoids, you can separate it to use the oil in a recipe, and just eat the plant material separately. This does work for brownies or anything else.
Eat roughly a third to half of your meal, then take tablespoons of edibles as you desire, chase them down with water or a drink, and then finish eating.
Try to make this your 2nd meal of the day, first will work but you don't want first pass metabolism to get any cannabinoids in the oil. If you eat it as your first meal of the day, eat some food 20 minutes before you start taking the oil.
I dosed on this last night 3 grams, and saved the other 3 grams for tonight. I was so gone, 3 grams is actually a bit too much for me. I still feel the cannabinoids in my system more then 24 hours since dose time.
And this is schwag bud and prices. 3 grams comes out to about 3.50 to 4 dollars. The most prominent period of the high lasts for about 6 - 9 hours or more, depending.
I have done as low as 1/2 or a gram, and they still produce long term (6hr+) relief/benefit.
copied and pasted from - http://forum.grassci...nnabis-oil.html
Here's some links from "strain hunters" forums. The first two are from thread i posted some of this information in.
Easy Living Bud Hash Oil Tutorial by DanMacGrowsalot - http://www.strainhun...h__1#entry38854
Meet Puff the Magic Dragon
Isomerization - increasing the potency of cannabis by 50% - byFuzzy - http://www.strainhun...__fromsearch__1
I understand what decarboxylation is. What i don't understand is why there are people who claim that THC can be turned into THCA for a better high. Looks like that actually might be THC-O-A.
from wikipedia:
THC acetate ester is a derivative of THC which has been found by the DEA as an apparent controlled substance analogue of THC. It was apparently made by extracting and purifying THC from cannabis plant material using a soxhlet extractor, followed by reaction with acetic anhydride in an analogous manner to how heroin is made from morphine.[1] A similar case was reported in June 1995 in the UK and THC-O-acetate was ruled to be a Class A drug.[2] THC acetate was also reported to have been found by New Zealand police in 1995, again made by acetylation of purified cannabis extracts with acetic anhydride.[3] The acetylation of THC does not change the properties of the compound to the same extent as with other acetate esters (e.g. morphine vs heroin), as the parent compound is already highly lipophilic, but potency is nonetheless increased to some extent. This derivative of THC is interesting as one of the few analogues of THC to have been encountered as a recreational drug sold and used in a highly pure smokable form.
from wikipedia:
THC acetate ester is a derivative of THC which has been found by the DEA as an apparent controlled substance analogue of THC. It was apparently made by extracting and purifying THC from cannabis plant material using a soxhlet extractor, followed by reaction with acetic anhydride in an analogous manner to how heroin is made from morphine.[1] A similar case was reported in June 1995 in the UK and THC-O-acetate was ruled to be a Class A drug.[2] THC acetate was also reported to have been found by New Zealand police in 1995, again made by acetylation of purified cannabis extracts with acetic anhydride.[3] The acetylation of THC does not change the properties of the compound to the same extent as with other acetate esters (e.g. morphine vs heroin), as the parent compound is already highly lipophilic, but potency is nonetheless increased to some extent. This derivative of THC is interesting as one of the few analogues of THC to have been encountered as a recreational drug sold and used in a highly pure smokable form.
my understanding is that THCA and THC-0-A are two different compounds. I found this forum topic that goes over the substance in some detail, but nobody comes in with experiential evidence about whether or not it's worth the effort.
http://forum.grasscity.com/seasoned-tokers/439166-acetylation-thc.html
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
THCA is the carboxylic acid form of THC. THCA is a polar molecule, which doesn't readily pass the blood brain barrier to reach the CB-1 receptors in the brain. Once decarboxylated to remove the COOH carboxyl group, it is no longer polar.
There is also the issue of fit. If a THC molecule fits a CB-1 receptor, how would a larger THCA molecule fit?
I know of no way to convert THC to THCA, nor does our biochemistry student. Perhaps a good question for more learned chemist, but I suspect the voices out there suggesting it is a good idea, don't know either?
oilmkr420
Active Member
You cant uncook the THC to THCA. The acid forms have been rendered neutral and had the additional 9% moisture from it's fully cured state have been taken out w controlled heat. So how can one put it back in once removed? That can't be done. It's done so that people who don't smoke and eat it instead feel it's effects. It get's metabolized as a hydroxy11 through the liver and that's why experienced smokers are taken by surprise when properly done. Here is where it starts getting interesting. Benefits of consuming marijuana w out getting high is a huge market too.
alright alright you guys, I'm not talking about turning THC back into THCA, I'm talking about turning it into THC-0-A
here's a link
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/thc-acetate/
here's a link
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/thc-acetate/
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
OK, different deal! Yes we have turned THC into THC Acetate using acetic anhydride and the formula at Skunk Pharm Research works well. Joe developed it after making aspirin in biochemistry class, using the same process.
oilmkr420
Active Member
Correct. Decarb, supercritical fluid extraction, reduce, isomerize, done right. Unless the dumb fuck doent safely remove the sulfuric acid. I've also heard of using citric acid in a similar but not so harsh of a condition w less ill effects than the acid going dormant in its solid state, but w the re-introduction of water from your mouth and lungs would cause irreaversable damage leaving this area to the more experienced chemists. I just decarb, don't even winterize, and just Raw BDS that shit. Its way flavorful and whoops on bho inthe most dynamic and convincing ways.
found this in my travels.....
Decarboxylation - A method of making the THC more psychoactive through controlled heating.
By Ed Rosenthal - Thursday, January 2 2003
Does marijuana have to be heated to become psychoactive?
I bought a Coldfinger to make an extract, but my problem is this: Doesn't marijuana have to be heated to become psychoactive?
My solution was to put the marijuana in the oven before putting it in the Coldfinger. But I have no idea how long I should leave it in there, let alone at what temperature. I know THC boils at 392 degrees F. But other cannabinoids, which are essential to the experience, boil off much more quickly. At what temperature can I decarboxylate the THC, while still preserving some of the cannabinoids?
Marijuana produces THCA, an acid with the carboxylic group (COOH) attached. In its acid form, THC is not very active. It is only when the carboxyl group is removed that THC becomes psychoactive. When marijuana is smoked, the THC behind the hot spot is vaporized as the hot air from the burn is drawn through the joint or pipe bowl to the unburned material. The liquid THC and other cannabinoids have a boiling point of between 180-200? C (355-392? F). Before they turn gaseous, at around 106? C (220? F), the carboxyl group is released from the molecule as carbon dioxide and water vapor.
You will be extracting the THC using low heat in the commercially made Coldfinger Extractor. (They have a very interesting online catalog at www.edenlabs.org). The THC will not reach a temperature in which decarboxylation takes place. However, if you plan to vaporize or smoke the extract decarboxylation will take place as the oil is used.
However, it is easy to make sure all the THC is decarboxylated and is at full strength before it is extracted. Although decarboxylation takes place rapidly at 106? C, it proceeds at a more gradual pace by placing the cannabis in a room with low relative humidity and room temperature. As the temperature rises, the rate of decarboxylation increases.
Cannabis can also be placed in a food dehydrator to remove the carboxyl group. Although the heat in the food dehydrator doesn't rise to 106? C, the temperature is warm enough to promote drying and the release of the water and CO2. When the marijuana is crispy and brittle you can be assured that the carboxyl group has been removed from the cannabinoids and they are ready for extraction or removal from the plant material.
Copied and pased from - http://www.cannabisc...icles/2794.html
This Article is also by Ed Rosenthal
When marijuana is harvested, the THC molecule is bound to a carboxyl group ? COOH ? that is, one atom each of carbon and hydrogen and two atoms of oxygen. With a carboxyl group attached, THC is not active.
Heating dried marijuana makes the carboxyl group convert into water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2). When marijuana is smoked, the burning eliminates the carboxyl group. There are several ways to decarboxylate marijuana for use in extracts. A layer of marijuana buds or leaf can be placed in an oven at 150 degrees for 15 minutes. This is far below the boiling point of THC yet warm enough to evaporate the carboxyl group. Another method of releasing the COOH is by placing a bowl of buds in the microwave for 2 minutes. The waves will boil away the water. The boiling point of marijuana's active cannabinoids ranges from 260-392 degrees F.
The Coldfinger is made by Eden Labs, a company in Ohio that makes several models of herbal extractors, from the simple to the most sophisticated. They can be found on the internet at www.edenlabs.org.
copied and pasted from - http://cannabiscultu...icles/3037.html
How-to: Paleo's Potent Decarboxylated Cannabis Oil
How to Decarboxylate and fry cannabis oil quickly and completely
Important points:
Decarboxylate in microwave or oven (oven takes more time)
Fry the cannabis until dark brown
Eat with a meal
Tools:
Butter or oil
Scissors
Microwave
Glass plate for microwave/oven dish for oven
Stainless Steel container or pot
Spoon
Stove
Total 6 grams in my photos, which will give you anywhere from 1 to 6 doses. This is just schwag. You can use any amount, just adjust the amount of oil (to submerge cannabis) accordingly.
Decarboxylation Details:
There are carboxyl-groupcontaining cannabinoids like cannabigerolic acid, cannabidiolic acid, which is an oxidocyclized version of cannabigerolic acid, and tetrahydrocannabinolic acid, that when they lose thier respective carboxyl group, become psychoactive.
Although all the pharmacologic literature I've read has focused on THCa, CBDa and CBGa, there are more phytocannabinoids that have a carboxyl group in them - who, after being decarboxylated - become psychoactive compounds. Nothing has shown CC's (carboxyl cannabinoids) to potentiate recreational use more then the same phytocannabinoids would as decarboxylated compounds. THIS is why you decarboxylate, to convert your THCa, CBDa, and CBGa all into non-acid forms, our beloved psychoactive compounds. So now that you know why to decarboxylate, here's how:
MICROWAVING
Microwave each set of 3 grams, for about 1 minute, 30 seconds to 2 minutes each. This is decarboxylation.
On the second batch, I re-microwaved for 1 minute to finish off.
Microwaving cannabis is safer then touching your cannabis with your hand.
If you’re decarboxylating small batches at a time you should learn how to do it in your microwave. And if it works one day, go extra time the next time. You’ll see its harder then you think to ‘burn up’ or ‘destroy’ any active cannabinoids in the microwave. Your herb will smell stronger, more pungent and crumble with ease when it’s decarboxylated - oven OR microwave method.
In the oven, you are going to want to do it for longer then 20 minutes, depending on how much bud you have, it’s degree of dryness, and your chosen temp. 325 to 350 is well known to be safe. At these temps, 25 minutes or more is more than likely necessary. If it smells more dank after the oven decarboxylation than before, and crumbles very easily, its decarboxylated.
Alternatively, you can get a food dehydrator.
You can tell when it's ready, by the strong smell (not THC escaping, but terpenes escaping) and by pinching the bud in your index and thumb finger, and trying to crush it. If the small nugs crumble, it's decarboxylated. Decarboxylation is when the THC-acid molecule looses it's COOH group, converting it from an inactive kidney cleaner, into the psychedelic THC.
How well you decarboxylate, affected by how well you can discern when the cannabis has been decarboxylated, is 50% of making this oil as potent as possible. The other 50%, is frying it until it's dark brown.
If you skip this step, or use your cannabis without it crumbling and dry, it won't be the potent oil it can be.
NOTE: Re-microwaving is safe, if you microwaved for a minute and 30 seconds and it didnt fully decarboxylate, when re-microwaving the microwave has to re-heat the glass plate youre using to hold the plant.
NOTE 2: Always decarboxylate for at least one minute! Even if it's half a gram you're doing. 2 minutes in the microwave at once, does not equal two separate one minute microwaves. The key is to heat, in the microwave, the cannabis until it smells and crumbles like it's decarboxylated.
Does Microwaving Destroy THC?
Yesterday I used the microwave to decarboxylate another batch, but this time I microwaved for 2 minutes, three separate times. This decarboxylated the bud even more! 1 minute 30 seconds to 2 minutes is safe because the glass plate doesnt get hot enough to vaporize the cannabinoids.
Even if you stop it at 2 minutes, mix up the bud on the plate, and microwave for another 2 minutes, it's safe. 2 minute microwaves in two sets does NOT equal 4 minutes in the microwave. 4 minutes will burn your cannabis and cannabinoids, but two separate 2 minute sets works to decarboxylate better than once. Yesterdays batch was stronger and I used less bud, so I know that microwaving the same cannabis twice for 2 minutes each time is safe, and reccomended.
I left the bud with small nugs as you can see on the plate below, because when I try to crush these little nugs I can get a feel for wether the bud has decarboxylated. If they crumble, they are done.
Now you have your 6 (2 sets of 3) grams of decarboxylated cannabis, it should smell stronger then before, be extra dry and crumble when you try to crumble it.
This is where you add your oil/butter of choice to the container.
LARD
Lard is not the only fat you can cook with, any fat will do, but here's why I use it (among other fats for different occasions):
Lard can be cooked with any meat, and its good to fry in. Potatoes fried in lard, thats what they call chips in the UK. If youre going to use lard for your cannabis edibles I only recommend it if you like how it tastes by itself, and you eat it the way I do in the thread. Reason being, it would taste weird in brownies, and would probably not go well on any sweets in general. Lard works for meats and broths, soups and stocks.
I eat tablespoons of cannabis infused lard with my steak meals, but thats because I've learned that saturated fat is the healthiest fat, because we've been eating it for millenia. It has large amount of saturated and monounsaturated fat. I try to keep my diet at around 65-70% fat, 25% protien and 5-10% carbs. Now that I think about it, I wouldnt eat my infused lard any other way then straight with meat, or possibly soup.
Lard is such a cheap fat, like a dollar a pound, compared to olive oil or coconut oil. Not to mention it's perfect for for frying or cooking, since it has no particles like unrefined coco/olive oil, and tastes great on potatoes and plant foods. If I want to fry some potatoes, cook some meat with bell peppers, onion, or any other vegetables, I always use lard.
If your fat is solid at room temp, like butter or lard or any other saturated fat, melt the lard or butter in the container by itself until the fat becomes a liquid. You obviously melt the butter in the container or pot over the stovetop.
Only add enough to cover the cannabis in the same container!
You can always add extra fat later, remember, but you CANT TAKE ANY OIL OUT after the cannabis is added if you put too much.
Butter bubbles when fried, so butter can help reach any bud that gets stuck on the side of the container.
Combinations of butter and other fats work too.
This is the same container, with melted lard, cannabis, and see the white thing? Thats a little bit extra (solidified at room tempurature) lard for good measure.
Sometimes you need to add a little extra oil to make sure all the cannabis is submerged.
More oil to cannabis will spread out the amount of time it takes for your body to digest the oil and recieve the cannabinoids.
FRYING THE CANNABIS
That extra lard will quickly melt down into the rest of the oil.
By this time you have all of your decarboxylated cannabis inside the container, with sufficient fat to cover and submerge the cannabis.
For the frying, you only want to fry for under 5 minutes. The direct flame as you can see, heats the oil and cannabis in the container.
If you have an electric stove, use that, if you have an outdoor stove - thats even better - because there is a little bit of smoke and lots and lots of smell! This is okay and safe and you're doing it right, the smell is terpenes, not active cannabinoids.
Turn on the fans, open the windows, or if you can, do the entire frying process outside. Within about 20 minutes, the smell should dissipate anyway. But for extra safety, be ready to air out location.
Stir consistantly as it fries. It should be smelling and bubbling now. Fry like this, on a medium-high heat until dark brown. This is a fast process, about 5 minutes.
Once you think it's been fried DARK BROWN, wait an extra 30 seconds for good frying measure.
Then - careful not to burn yourself - take the container to cool outside.
When I took a look at the cannabis after being fried, I went back inside, turned the stove top on again, and fried it for an additional 2 minutes. This is because as you can see in the photographs, the cannabis was not COMPLETELY browned...
... This is of course optional, but the more you fry, the more potent the cannabis oil becomes (until you've fried it all out).
Leave it outside to cool and so the smell wont stink up your house, for about 10 minutes or so.
And there you have it! Potent, decarboxylated, properly fried cannabis oil that will knock you on your fucking ass, and then some.
You can have anything from mellow mood change(1/2 gram), regular fun trips(1-2.5 grams) or heroic doses(4 or more grams) with heroic highs using this method.
Anyone who told you that you couldn't actually have a psychedelic trip using cannabis, hasn't done this.
No matter what amount you eat, the effects last the entire day. With this method I only dose once a day, and some days I skip because the stone lingers from the day before.
Eat it with a good sized meal, preferably with protien, some fat and a small amount of carbs. It's safe to eat this infused oil with any meal including a high fat meal.
I don't separate the plant material because I eat the oil together with a meal. The plant material contains cannabinoids, you can separate it to use the oil in a recipe, and just eat the plant material separately. This does work for brownies or anything else.
Eat roughly a third to half of your meal, then take tablespoons of edibles as you desire, chase them down with water or a drink, and then finish eating.
Try to make this your 2nd meal of the day, first will work but you don't want first pass metabolism to get any cannabinoids in the oil. If you eat it as your first meal of the day, eat some food 20 minutes before you start taking the oil.
I dosed on this last night 3 grams, and saved the other 3 grams for tonight. I was so gone, 3 grams is actually a bit too much for me. I still feel the cannabinoids in my system more then 24 hours since dose time.
And this is schwag bud and prices. 3 grams comes out to about 3.50 to 4 dollars. The most prominent period of the high lasts for about 6 - 9 hours or more, depending.
I have done as low as 1/2 or a gram, and they still produce long term (6hr+) relief/benefit.
copied and pasted from - http://forum.grassci...nnabis-oil.html
Here's some links from "strain hunters" forums. The first two are from thread i posted some of this information in.
Easy Living Bud Hash Oil Tutorial by DanMacGrowsalot - http://www.strainhun...h__1#entry38854
Meet Puff the Magic Dragon(Green Dragon Content) by Flial - http://www.strainhun...h__1#entry38430
Isomerization - increasing the potency of cannabis by 50% - byFuzzy - http://www.strainhun...__fromsearch__1