The Art of The Auto

John Mondello

John Mondello

Active Member
mossys said:
Right FullD..this is not the homework..and I don't expect an answer..
BUT..
it has been rolling round my head since you mentioned your teeth..and posted the PH charts below it.

The people that have the dietry problem we mention have a Big vitamin and mineral deficiency problem due to Malabsorbtion..
(you have already identified the cal/mag deficiency..)

On a CELLULAR level..Humans have a similar food/water/nute distribution system to plants...

Plants get nute Lock-out when the PH of their water is not right...Do Humans...

wouldn't it be strange if nute lock out in plants..has the same cause as the malabsorbtion problem in humans...

Simply that your drinking water is Bad..wrong ph

thinking about it..
many of the worlds health problems are blamed on the diet we consume..
diets vary from country to country..and from race and religious perspectives..

The One thing that we all have in common is the need to consume water..
and seeing as the human body is 70-90% water..

would it not be probable that our drinking water IS the most important/problem part of our diet.

Could ph buffering the water we drink improve US as much as it does the girls.

(Aaaannnddd..before you say...
well..there is only one way to check Mossy..you are gonna have to buffer your water and measure your Run Off...I'm ahead of you...:bigjoint:..)

Seeing the difference the ph balanced oxygenated water was making to the girls..
I was gonna try the dog on it

Now I'm wondering if I should be doing it for all of us.
Click to expand...

Well, I've already read some interesting stuff on this.
Human blood ph I think is typically around 7.2 but some poeple have had problems with acidic or alkaline blood...i think acidity is usually the problem.. I remmeber seeing water ionizers used for ph-buffering water for drinking... its claimed to be one of the healthiest things you can do... I've had my eye on a water ionizer for lots of reasons mostly for ph but also for filtration for the water supply for my babies. I'm not sure how much credibility this ph-blood thing has... but I def agree its worth looking into. heres a link to an ionizer thats not too crazy expensive and has a pretty wide ph range... just FYI

as far as I'm concerned... you guys could never talk too much.... im like a 60 foot tall sativa in this forum drink..... drink..... drink..... glug glug glug glug...... blurrrrrrp.... ahhhhhh!

:)
J
 
FullDuplex

FullDuplex

Well-Known Member
John Mondello said:
as far as I'm concerned... you guys could never talk too much.... im like a 60 foot tall sativa in this forum drink..... drink..... drink..... glug glug glug glug...... blurrrrrrp.... ahhhhhh!

:)
J
Click to expand...
This is the best way to learn. I have had years of experience growing garden veggies before i started growing my own meds. i figure that it couldn't be much different than tomatoes due to the genetic makeup.
As most i started with bag seed and things went well, had a few glitches along the way but i learned by reading as well as trying what i read if it worked i made note of it and used it again.
If something didnt work, i made sure not to do it again, then after the years i have honed in my skills thanks to guys that were willing to share the things i didnt know and from a bunch of trial and error.

This is when i started "listening" to my plants rather than just force feeding them. I just let them grow :) Dont get me wrong i am in my room every day to check temps, RH, and make sure all equipment is running
but for the most part its all doing it its self.

If you stick around i have no issues sharing the things that have worked for me. One day ill get it all together and in a book, ive been working on it for some time just hard to get it all in there.
especially with all the new things we are seeing here.

Never thought that this thread was going to be what it has become. Its good to see all the auto guys banding together.
 
43Hitman

43Hitman

Active Member
You and Mossy can talk as much as you want as far as I'm concerned. I am learning a ton about autos and plants in general from this thread. So thanks and keep up the good work.

P.S. My Sagamatha Star Ryder germed in 18 hours and I put it into soil yesterday. We should be seeing her sprout by tomorrow sometime.
 
420Marine

420Marine

Well-Known Member
I've got a lot of reading to do in this thread but I want to eventually do autos...but I have about 50 pages..so far great stuff though.
 
43Hitman

43Hitman

Active Member
I have a question guys, I am about 13 days out from calculated finish, is it too early to sample a small nug? I'm dry and am really curious how she's going to turn out.
 
43Hitman

43Hitman

Active Member
420Marine said:
I've got a lot of reading to do in this thread but I want to eventually do autos...but I have about 50 pages..so far great stuff though.
Click to expand...
You're in good hands with FullD and Mossy bro, they are top notch.

Edit: I'll throw you some rep.
 
shroomyshroom

shroomyshroom

Well-Known Member
So who do I have a word to get permission for this little comp :)

also wouldn't mind knowing who is interested to see if it is worth getting off the ground

P.s sorry for posting the here fullD but this is where all the auto peeps are at :)
 
FullDuplex

FullDuplex

Well-Known Member
43Hitman said:
You're in good hands with FullD and Mossy bro, they are top notch.

Edit: I'll throw you some rep.
Click to expand...
Thanks man i appreciate that just trying to spread the love

shroomyshroom said:
So who do I have a word to get permission for this little comp :)

also wouldn't mind knowing who is interested to see if it is worth getting off the ground

P.s sorry for posting the here fullD but this is where all the auto peeps are at :)
Click to expand...
Not sure who to reach out to. I sent the mods a note today trying to get a sub forum for us. if i hear back i may have a contact for ya

and no worries about the post man its all good. Couldn't think of a better place to put it, welcome to post here anytime or anything you want.
 
43Hitman

43Hitman

Active Member
Hey FullD, I hate to pester you, but did you happen to see my question on the previous page about sampling?
 
Harry Bald Sack

Harry Bald Sack

Active Member
43Hitman said:
You and Mossy can talk as much as you want as far as I'm concerned. I am learning a ton about autos and plants in general from this thread. So thanks and keep up the good work.

P.S. My Sagamatha Star Ryder germed in 18 hours and I put it into soil yesterday. We should be seeing her sprout by tomorrow sometime.
Click to expand...
Looks like I will be about a week behind you with my Double Diesel Ryder. I will also be starting some [FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Lowryder #2 x AK47[/FONT].
 
FullDuplex

FullDuplex

Well-Known Member
43Hitman said:
Hey FullD, I hate to pester you, but did you happen to see my question on the previous page about sampling?
Click to expand...
not a bother at all, sometimes i need a check or two to get me back in line lol

If you are that close to harvest then you should be fine.
At that stage you are just putting on weight
I dont see any negative issues with this at all

Quick tip, after you take the nug let it dry out naturally dont rush it
take it and do one of two things place it by the exhaust fan of your PC (if you can)
or place it on top of the reflector and it should be ready to smoke n 24
may not be best taste but itll give ya a good idea of what you have awaiting..
 
John Mondello

John Mondello

Active Member
43Hitman said:
I have a question guys, I am about 13 days out from calculated finish, is it too early to sample a small nug? I'm dry and am really curious how she's going to turn out.
Click to expand...
nawww... i usually get dry by august here and start... "sampling" very small nugs occasionally. however, 13 days from final means in orde to truly appreciate the bud flavor you're only going to have like 7-10 days left by the time it dries naturally... the real way to determine maturity is by using a microscope (or farily powerful jewlers lupe) and looking at the trichome colors... typically ... I personally like a little more of an up high so I usually harvest no later than about 50% trichomes turning white. However, if you are looking for more of a medicinal affect and more of a relaxed chill high... go more for the amber color (later) heres a little extra on that:

Harvest Timing
With this dynamic picture of the biosynthesis and degradation of THC acids as a frame of reference, the logic behind harvesting at a specific time is easier to understand. The usual aim of timing the moment of harvest is to ensure high THC levels modified by just the proper amounts of CBC, CBD and CBN, along with their propyl homologs, to approximate the desired psychoactive effect. Since THC acids are being broken down into CBN acid at the same time they are being made from CBD acid, it is important to harvest at a time when the production of THC acids is higher than the degradation of THC acids. Every experienced cultivator inspects a number of indicating factors and knows when to harvest the desired type of floral clus ters. Some like to harvest early when most of the pistils are still viable and at the height of reproductive potential. At this time the resins are very aromatic and light; the psychoactive effect is characterized as a light cerebral high (possibly low CBC and CBD, high THC, low CBN). Others harvest as late as possible, desiring a stronger, more resinous marijuana characterized by a more intense body effect and an inhibited cerebral effect (high CBC and CB]), high THC, high CBN). Harvesting and testing several floral clusters every few days over a period of several weeks gives the cultivator a set of samples at all stages of maturation and creates a basis for deciding when to harvest in future seasons. The following is a description of each of the growth phases as to morphology, terpene aroma, and relative psychoactivity.
 
John Mondello

John Mondello

Active Member
FullDuplex said:
Quick tip, after you take the nug let it dry out naturally dont rush it
take it and do one of two things place it by the exhaust fan of your PC (if you can)
or place it on top of the reflector and it should be ready to smoke n 24
may not be best taste but itll give ya a good idea of what you have awaiting..
Click to expand...
this also works well for a "quick fix" sample I actually find on top of my 4' fluros (on 24/7) is a great place to dry... even less than 24 hrs (like 12)

wouldna't accept my post... "message too few characters? lol... so thats y this line.... guess the servers dont like my character(s) ;)[/QUOTE]
 
43Hitman

43Hitman

Active Member
Thanks FullD. :-)


Thanks John. I have a microscope on the way, should be here next week. I am just getting a bit antsy and with out any smoke on hand the temptation is getting to me.
 
John Mondello

John Mondello

Active Member
also, cant remeber who it was... think fd? maybe mossys? (think so, with good results as i recall) dunno but someone was reading similar material a while back and realized uvb may increase thc production and potencty... very consistent with this data:


Cannabinoid Biosynthesis
Since resin secretion and associated terpenoid and cannabinoid biosynthesis are at their peak just after the pistils have begun to turn brown but before the calyx stops growing, it seems obvious that floral clusters should be harvested during this time. More subtle variations in terpenoid and cannabinoid levels also take place within this period of maximum resin secretion, and these variations influence the nature of the resin’s psychoactive effect.
The cannabinoid ratios characteristic of a strain are primarily determined by genes, but it must be remembered that many environmental factors, such as light, temperature, and humidity, influence the path of a molecule along the cannabinoid biosynthetic pathway. These environmental factors can cause an atypical final cannabinoid profile (cannabinoid levels and ratios). Not all cannabinoid molecules begin their journey through the pathway at the same time, nor do all of them complete the cycle and turn into THC molecules simultaneously. There is no magical way to influence the cannabinoid biosynthesis to favor THC production, but certain factors involved in the growth and maturation of Cannabis do affect final cannabinoid levels, These factors may be controlled to some extent by proper selection of mature floral clusters for harvesting, agricul tural technique, and local environment. In addition to genetic and seasonal influences, the picture is further modified by the fact that each individual calyx goes through the cannabinoid cycle fairly independently and that during peak periods of resin secretion new flowers are produced every day and begin their own cycle. This means that at any given time the ratio of calyx-to-leaf, the average calyx condition, the condition of the resins, and resultant cannabinoid ratios indicate which stage the floral cluster has reached. Since it is difficult for the amateur cultivator to determine the cannabinoid profile of a floral cluster without chromatographic analysis, this discussion will center on the known and theoretical correlations between the external characteristics of calyx and resin and internal cannabinoid profile. A better understanding of these subtle changes in cannabinoid ratios may be gleaned by observing the cannabinoid biosynthesis. Focus on the lower left-hand corner of the chart. Next, follow the chain of reactions until you find the four isomers of THC acid (tetrahydro-cannabinolic acid), toward the right side of the page at the crest of the reaction sequence, and realize that there are several steps in a long series of reactions that precede and follow the formation of THC acids, the major psychoactive cannabinoids. Actually, THC acid and the other necessary cannabinoid acids are not psychoactive until they decarboxylate (lose an acidic carboxyl group [COOHI). It is the cannabinoid acids which move along the biosynthetic pathway, and these acids undergo the strategic reactions that determine the position of any particular cannabinoid molecule along the pathway. After the resins are secreted by the glandular trichome they begin to harden and the cannabinoid acids begin to decarboxylate. Any remaining cannabinoid acids are decarboxylated by heat within a few days after harvesting. Other THC acids with shorter side-chains also occur in certain strains of Cannabis. Several are known to be psychoactive and many more are suspected of psychoactivity. The shorter propyl (three-carb on) and methyl (one-carbon) side-chain homologs (similarly shaped molecules) are shorter acting than pen tyl (five-carbon) THCs and may account for some of the quick, flashy effects noted by some marijuana users. We will focus on the pentyl pathway but it should be noted that the propyl and methyl pathways have homologs at nearly every step along the pentyl pathway and their synthesis is basically identical.
The first step in the pentyl cannabinoid biosynthetic pathway is the combination of olivetolic acid with geranyl pyrophosphate. Both of these molecules are derived from terpenes, and it is readily apparent that the biosynthetic route of the aromatic terpenoids may be a clue to formation of the cannabinoids. The union of these two molecules forms CBG acid (cannabigerolic acid) which is the basic cannabinoid precursor molecule. CBG acid may be converted to CBGM (CBG acid monomethyl ether), or a hydroxyl group (OH) attaches to the geraniol portion of the molecule forming hydroxy-CBG acid. Through the formation of a transition-state molecule, either CBC acid (cannabichromenic acid) or CBD acid (cannabidiolic acid) is formed. CBD acid is the precursor to the THC acids, and, although CBD is only mildly psychoactive by itself, it may act with THC to modify the psychoactive effect of the THC in a sedative way. CBC is also mildly psychoactive and may interact synergistically with THC to alter the psychoactive effect (Turner et al. 1975). Indeed, CBD may suppress the effect of THC and CBC may potentiate the effect of THC, although this has not yet been proven. All of the reactions along the cannabinoid biosynthetic pathway are enzyme-controlled but are affected by environmental conditions.
Conversion of CBD acid to THC acid is the single most important reaction with respect to psychoactivity in the entire pathway and the one about which we know the most. Personal communication with Raphael Mechoulam has centered around the role of ultraviolet light in the bio-synthesis of THC acids and minor cannabinoids. In the laboratory, Mechoulam has converted CBD acid to THC acids by exposing a solution of CBD acid in n-hexane to ultraviolet light of 235-285 nm. for up to 48 hours. This reaction uses atmospheric oxygen molecules (02) and is irreversible; however, the yield of the conversion is only about 15% THC acid, and some of the products formed in the laboratory experiment do not occur in living specimens. Four types of isomers or slight variations of THC acids (THCA) exist. Both Delta1-THCA and Delta6-THCA are naturally occurring isomers of THCA resulting from the positions of the double bond on carbon 1 or carbon 6 of the geraniol portion of the molecule They have approximately the same psychoactive effect; however, Delta1-THC acid is about four times more prevalent than Delta6-THC acid in most strains. Also Alpha and Beta forms of Delta1-THC acid and Delta6-THC acid exist as a result of the juxtaposition of the hydrogen (H) and the carboxyl (COOH) groups on the olivetolic acid portion of the molecule It is suspected that the psychoactivity of the a and ~ forms of the THC acid molecules probably does not vary, but this has not been proven. Subtle differences in psychoactivity not detected in animals by laboratory instruments, but often discussed by marijuana aficionados, could be attributed to additional synergistic effects of the four isomers of THC acid. Total psycho-activity is attributed to the ratios of the primary cannabinoids of CBC, CBD, THC and CBN; the ratios of methyl, propyl, and pentyl homologs of these cannabinoids; and the isomeric variations of each of these cannabinoids. Myriad subtle combinations are sure to exist. Also, terpenoid and other aromatic compounds might suppress or potentiate the effects of THCs.
Environmental conditions influence cannabinoid biosynthesis by modifying enzymatic systems and the resultant potency of Cannabis. High altitude environments are often more arid and exposed to more intense sunlight than lower environments. Recent studies by Mobarak et al. (1978) of Cannabis grown in Afghanistan at 1,300 meters (4,350 feet) elevation show that significantly more propyl cannabinoids are formed than the respective pentyl homo-logs. Other strains from this area of Asia have also exhibited the presence of propyl cannabinoids, but it cannot be discounted that altitude might influence which path of cannabinoid biosynthesis is favored. Aridity favors resin production and total cannabinoid production; however, it is unknown whether arid conditions promote THC production specifically. It is suspected that increased ultraviolet radiation might affect cannabinoid production directly. Ultra-violet light participates in the biosynthesis of THC acids from CBD acids, the conversion of CBC acids to CCY acids, and the conversion of CBD acids to CBS acids. However, it is unknown whether increased ultraviolet light might shift cannabinoid synthesis from pentyl to propyl pathways or influence the production of THC acid or CBC acid instead of CBD acid.
The ratio of THC to CBD has been used in chemotype determination by Small and others. The genetically determined inability of certain strains to convert CBD acid to THC acid makes them a member of a fiber chemotype, but if a strain has the genetically determined ability to convert CBD acid to THC acid then it is considered a drug strain. It is also interesting to note that Turner and Hadley (1973) discovered an African strain with a very high THC level and no CBD although there are fair amounts of CBC acid present in the strain. Turner* states that he has seen several strains totally devoid of CBD, but he has never seen a strain totally devoid of THC. Also, many early authors confused CBC with CBD in analyzed samples because of the proximity of their peaks on gas liquid chromatograph (GLC) results. If the biosynthetic pathway needs alteration to include an enzymatically controlled system involving the direct conversion of hydroxy-CBG acid to THC acid through allylic rearrangement of hydroxy-CBG acid and cyclization of the rearranged intermediate to THC acid, as Turner and Hadley (1973) suggest, then CBD acid would be bypassed in the cycle and its absence explained. Another possibility is that, since CBC acid is formed from the same symmetric intermediate that is allylically rearranged before forming CBD acid, CBC acid may be the accumulated intermediate, the reaction may be reversed, and through the symmetric intermediate and the usual allylic rearrangement CBD acid would be formed but directly converted to THC acid by a similar enzyme system to that which reversed the formation of CBC acid. If this happened fast enough no CBD acid would be detected. It is more likely, however, that CBDA in drug strains is converted directly to THCA as soon as it is formed and no CBD builds up. Also Turner, Hemphill, and Mahlberg (1978) found that CBC acid was contained in the tissues of Cannabis but not in the resin secreted by the glandular trichomes. In any event, these possible deviations from the accepted biosynthetic pathway provide food for thought when trying to decipher the mysteries of Cannabis strains and varieties of psychoactive effect.
Returning to the more orthodox version of the cannabinoid biosynthesis, the role of ultraviolet light should be reemphasized. It seems apparent that ultraviolet light, normally supplied in abundance by sunlight, takes part in the conversion of CBD acid to THC acids. Therefore, the lack *Carlton Thrner 1979: personal communication. of ultraviolet light in indoor growing situations could account for the limited psychoactivity of Cannabis grown under artificial lights. Light energy has been collected and utilized by the plant in a long series of reactions resulting in the formation of THC acids. Farther along the pathway begins the formation of degradation products not metabolically produced by the living plant. These cannabinoid acids are formed through the progressive degradation of THC acids to CBN acid (cannabinolic acid) and other cannabinoid acids. The degradation is accomplished primarily by heat and light and is not enzymatically controlled by the plant. CBN is also suspected of synergistic modification of the psychoactivity of the primary cannabinoids, THCs. The cannabinoid balance between CBC, CBD, THC, and CBN is determined by genetics and maturation. THC production is an ongoing process as long as the glandular trichome remains active. Variations in the level of THC in the same trichome as it matures are the result of THC acid being broken down to CBN acid while CBD acid is being converted to THC acid. If the rate of THC biosynthesis exceeds the rate of THC breakdown, the THC level in the trichome rises; if the breakdown rate is faster than the rate of biosynthesis, the THC level drops. Clear or slightly amber transparent resin is a sign that the glandular trichome is still active. As soon as resin secretion begins to slow, the resins will usually polymerize and harden. During the late floral stages the resin tends to darken to a transparent amber color. If it begins to deteriorate, it first turns translucent and then opaque brown or white. Near-freezing temperatures during maturation will often result in opaque white resins. During active secretion, THC acids are constantly being formed from CBD acid and breaking down into CBN acid.
 
FullDuplex

FullDuplex

Well-Known Member
Ok back to my homework results

Sunday morning we began the testing again
Typically lady D had been smoking and then eating
this was what was giving her the change in effect
So i had her eat her typical breakfast with Mangos
and then had a smoke together with ALF (white pheno).

Her results were the same, the effect was there
and she was recieveing her "brain Message"
She told me that the onset was the same
as smoking before eating.

Seems to me that the effect can happen either way
Both have the ability to open certain receptors
but it seems that one stimulates the receptors
while the other comes in as a second wave to heighten
the euphoric state.

Today we changed back to the colored pheno
and this is the one that does not carry the incense smell/pheno
After eating the same and then smoking she did not have the effect
So i believe the terp related to the Myrcene is the incense we are smelling

I have yet to try this on my self. I find it hard to fine a time that im not overlapping my doses :) Cause i can't smoke all day i do have an 8-5
So i am gonna give it a go on friday cause there are no other plans other than to come home and smoke.
 
napa23

napa23

Well-Known Member
Hey peoples, it's been a while since i visited this thread. Seems like it's rolling right along, though :). Don't know if this is allowed but i'd like to share my girl, just harvested today. She's tiny but hey, she's dank :). Lemme know whatcha think. This is my second harvest, first one was Nirvana's auto Blue Mystic.
Strain: DNA Genetics's 60 Day Wonder
Lighting: 150W HPS
Soil: Sunshine Mix organic soil
Nutrients: Cal+Mag Pro and Bloom Blood by Greenleaf Nutrients
Pot: 16oz. party cup
 
John Mondello

John Mondello

Active Member
43Hitman said:
Thanks FullD. :-)


Thanks John. I have a microscope on the way, should be here next week. I am just getting a bit antsy and with out any smoke on hand the temptation is getting to me.
Click to expand...
never a problem, man! I totally understand... this year from about the end of july through harvest (early oct) all I had to smoke was trim leaves (ughhh) and occasionally (sniped) bud.... i was like, "I refuse to buy a bag for $60 this close to harvest"

Finally starting making brownies when I had enough leaf trimmings... hmmmm seems to me theres about 2 or 3 weeks i really just cant recall at all this fall :) oh well, I know I was trimming or something :)
 
43Hitman

43Hitman

Active Member
FullDuplex said:
Ok back to my homework results

Sunday morning we began the testing again
Typically lady D had been smoking and then eating
this was what was giving her the change in effect
So i had her eat her typical breakfast with Mangos
and then had a smoke together with ALF (white pheno).

Her results were the same, the effect was there
and she was recieveing her "brain Message"
She told me that the onset was the same
as smoking before eating.

Seems to me that the effect can happen either way
Both have the ability to open certain receptors
but it seems that one stimulates the receptors
while the other comes in as a second wave to heighten
the euphoric state.

Today we changed back to the colored pheno
and this is the one that does not carry the incense smell/pheno
After eating the same and then smoking she did not have the effect
So i believe the terp related to the Myrcene is the incense we are smelling

I have yet to try this on my self. I find it hard to fine a time that im not overlapping my doses :) Cause i can't smoke all day i do have an 8-5
So i am gonna give it a go on friday cause there are no other plans other than to come home and smoke.
Click to expand...
Seems like a definite correlation with the white pheno. Man this shit is so interesting.
 
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