The flush "myth"

whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
CannaBruh said:
In hydroponics, where the nutrients are removed from the medium at the onset of "flush" I do not experience these "nutrient stress" at all. We've been at this, so it's cool to disagree, just don't sell it for what it's not... I just wanted to check the facts on the premise of feeding to the end doubles your yield vs if you had flushed, which is how the post read to me, which needed to be checked bongsmilie

MichMed you're like the one guy I can disagree with without resorting to an outright block, ^5 for not being a dick, and that's not a backhanded insult but an olive branch of sorts.
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No one ever said double the yield.

It was said that they put on up to 25% of their weight the last couple weeks.

I just don't see it. For two reasons already mentioned. Immobile can't move and mobile moves to new growth (buds).

Flushing does not remove those things. They either stay put or move to another part if the plant.
 
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R

RegurgedCumBubble

Member
whitebb2727 said:
No one eve said double the yield.

It was said that they put on up to 25% of their weight the last couple weeks.

I just don't see it. For two reasons already mentioned. Immobile can't move and mobile moves to new growth (buds).

Flushing does not remove those things. They either stay put or move to another part if the plant.
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Do you have a thread you could provide!
 
whitebb2727

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
RegurgedCumBubble said:
Do you have a thread you could provide!
Click to expand...
I do. Its not hard to find.

Its nothing big. A few small plants for personal use. Its illegal here and nothing but press pot. If you can find good indoor its 20 a gram here. Screw that.

I like them green to the end. I grow organic and the plants take what they want.

Sometimes colors show up.
IMG_20170215_194241.jpg IMG_20170215_014655.jpg IMG_20170215_194416.jpg
The light colored one in the top pic was a root bound plant that was sitting in the grow area until I could transplant it.
 
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yankeetransplant

yankeetransplant

Well-Known Member
DirtyD313 said:
So being kind of a noobie here i usually tend to skim through threads from time to time trying to get ideas and snippets of information. One that I have seen pop up multiple times is that flushing is a myth and its about money for nut companies and ect. Now. I pray this doesnt turn into a debate. But i ask why this is a myth or at least believed to be. I ask that people dont come in here bashing about FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH because i am currently one of those guys. I flush gallons of ph balanced water with no cleaning agents only. So my question now is, could someone cite some sources of facts for me or link a previous thread that already does so? Please, FACTS not oppinions or bashing for doing it or not. Im simply trying to educate myself, I actually just had someone tell me to crop my plant and throw it in a bowl of water for 24 hours and thats how thwy flush it. Sounds pretty off the wall but like I said, I dont know so I am trying to educate myself.
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I love rollitup forum...been part of most all of them, and RIU has a classy pack of weedhounds...ANYWAYS, wait for hurricane Irma to come more north in the state where I am and medicating my nerves with some Incredible Bulk (wonderful indica meds), and surfing my fav topic...I Had to comment on flushing..IMO, there are a lot of facts that arent recognized....it seem historically, many ppl feed heavy nutes to assure there plants have all they need...They ARE CAPABLE of high doses but not constantly...So, ppl get in feed, feed, flush, or similar nutrient regime...I the 25th of this month marks 38 yrs since my 1st hydroponic garden...THE BIGGEST mistake I see newer growers, and even mid level growers, do, is overfeeding.....I dont remember the last time I had the need to feed my plants more than 600ppm MAX, and typically about 500ppm...DWC can even be done a little LESS THAN THAT....A plant PROPERLY grown in a hydroponic system WILL BE growing at 90-100% of what that partucular strain, phenotype, and even a specific cutting, is genetically predispositioned to do...Sorry soil growers, but hydroponics offers a precise menu of nutrients, with a perfect ratio of elements, already in their salt form, and immediately available to the plants...Soil, depends on a lot of variables, like microbial activity, to assit in breaking down organics INTO their salt form...this will NEVER HAPPEN as precisely as a balanced hydroponic nutrient, AND when you in the thick of flowering, and your in moderate size containers indoors, you soil is getting somewhat depeted and u have to suppliment anyways, with a quality hydroponic nutrient.....
Now for why I started this response about a flushing question....Once you learn how to read you plants, hydroponics requires a very moderate feeding program...I NEVER increase my nute when the plants look good and are growing nicely...IF THEY show the 1st sign of needing more, feed them a little more....Once you know YOUR plants, providing you have been paying attention, you Already know the amts that keep them pretty and at what stage of growth....Now, if you have not been overfeeding them, they have no buildup and basically none in reserve (they dont need reserve if your doing your job)....NO NEED FOR FLUSHING...when I get down to 2 weeks prior to harvest, I cut my nutes in half...Since I have not been overfeeding them, they almost IMMEDIATELY show signs of deficiencies...I want that then....for the last week, I completely withhold nutirents...by then they have yellowed and by harvest, there is only light green remaining in the buds inner leaves...Sweet as candy...If I completely withheld nute 2 weeks out, it would be too early and TOO MUCH yellowing occurs...Small inner leaves (covered with trichs) would yellow, die and break off..the ultimate, is when the yellowing is just occuring in the main tops...all the other leaf will already have yellowing cometely and or dropped off...flushing is for plants grown TOO RICH for too long.....Learn to read YOUR plants and how to feed WITHOUT a TDS meter...feeding charts are generic, dependent on much..and IMO, too high....when u can consistently grow quality buds WITHOUT a TDS meter, YOU HAVE ARRIVED...regards, Y.T...cpl pics for credibility..current full crop (mostly THC bomb)...previous crop of White widow and Cheese candy...these are in a slightly modified Hempy bucket...went back to that after years of water culture...20170908_214932_Burst01.jpg 20170723_034754.jpg Screenshot_2016-06-24-22-46-46-1-1-1-1-1(1).png 20170125_035431-1-1-1(1)-1.jpg 20170727_232448_Burst01-1-1.jpg 20170728_023940_Burst01-1-1-1-1.jpg
DirtyD313 said:
So being kind of a noobie here i usually tend to skim through threads from time to time trying to get ideas and snippets of information. One that I have seen pop up multiple times is that flushing is a myth and its about money for nut companies and ect. Now. I pray this doesnt turn into a debate. But i ask why this is a myth or at least believed to be. I ask that people dont come in here bashing about FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH because i am currently one of those guys. I flush gallons of ph balanced water with no cleaning agents only. So my question now is, could someone cite some sources of facts for me or link a previous thread that already does so? Please, FACTS not oppinions or bashing for doing it or not. Im simply trying to educate myself, I actually just had someone tell me to crop my plant and throw it in a bowl of water for 24 hours and thats how thwy flush it. Sounds pretty off the wall but like I said, I dont know so I am trying to educate myself.
Click to expand...
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
RegurgedCumBubble said:
I'm gonna go find that pic on the internet and then I'm gonna put you on blast!
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Pete at ch9 posts my pics on Facebook and instagram and his website from time to time.

Blast away. Everyone here knows I am friends with him. Pen pals anyway. He is in Spain.

And there is a newer Michigan med grower out there with different plants also.

Need me to post a pic of my growroom in real time?

I say again. You are a goofball.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
The nutes are in a different ionic form in the plant. Only mobile nutes move obviously but they are transported where the plant needs them. Not all to the buds just cause a leaf yellows.

And the taste would be heavy grass. Chlorophyll.

All flushing during ripening can do is starve the roots so the plant yellows. Go too long and the plant will cannibalize itself. If the chlorophyll is lower. The buds will taste smoother longer. But if the plant was starved before done it won't be close to its potential for potency or flavor/smell.

When I used to overfeed plants. I agreed with the pro flush side. I was wrong. It can be higher quality if fed properly to the end.
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Ok so the the molecules move to where ever but if I did feed would they still not be everywhere and why would only after they move would it cause any taste, they were there before, if that makes sense, I'm high lol. I'm not trying to argue, more like discussing over a beer ;). Again I've never, except once noticed a difference by flushing, just trying to figure out what everyone's train of thought is.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
The nutes are in a different ionic form in the plant. Only mobile nutes move obviously but they are transported where the plant needs them. Not all to the buds just cause a leaf yellows.

And the taste would be heavy grass. Chlorophyll.

All flushing during ripening can do is starve the roots so the plant yellows. Go too long and the plant will cannibalize itself. If the chlorophyll is lower. The buds will taste smoother longer. But if the plant was starved before done it won't be close to its potential for potency or flavor/smell.

When I used to overfeed plants. I agreed with the pro flush side. I was wrong. It can be higher quality if fed properly to the end.
Click to expand...
Ok so the the molecules move to where ever but if I did feed would they still not be everywhere and why would only after they move would it cause any taste, they were there before, if that makes sense, I'm high lol. I'm not trying to argue, more like discussing over a beer ;). Again I've never, except once noticed a difference by flushing, just trying to figure out what everyone's train of thought is.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
The nutes are in a different ionic form in the plant. Only mobile nutes move obviously but they are transported where the plant needs them. Not all to the buds just cause a leaf yellows.

And the taste would be heavy grass. Chlorophyll.

All flushing during ripening can do is starve the roots so the plant yellows. Go too long and the plant will cannibalize itself. If the chlorophyll is lower. The buds will taste smoother longer. But if the plant was starved before done it won't be close to its potential for potency or flavor/smell.

When I used to overfeed plants. I agreed with the pro flush side. I was wrong. It can be higher quality if fed properly to the end.
Click to expand...
I assume when you overfed your flushing was more to leach the soil of nutrient buildup?
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
yankeetransplant said:
I love rollitup forum...been part of most all of them, and RIU has a classy pack of weedhounds...ANYWAYS, wait for hurricane Irma to come more north in the state where I am and medicating my nerves with some Incredible Bulk (wonderful indica meds), and surfing my fav topic...I Had to comment on flushing..IMO, there are a lot of facts that arent recognized....it seem historically, many ppl feed heavy nutes to assure there plants have all they need...They ARE CAPABLE of high doses but not constantly...So, ppl get in feed, feed, flush, or similar nutrient regime...I the 25th of this month marks 38 yrs since my 1st hydroponic garden...THE BIGGEST mistake I see newer growers, and even mid level growers, do, is overfeeding.....I dont remember the last time I had the need to feed my plants more than 600ppm MAX, and typically about 500ppm...DWC can even be done a little LESS THAN THAT....A plant PROPERLY grown in a hydroponic system WILL BE growing at 90-100% of what that partucular strain, phenotype, and even a specific cutting, is genetically predispositioned to do...Sorry soil growers, but hydroponics offers a precise menu of nutrients, with a perfect ratio of elements, already in their salt form, and immediately available to the plants...Soil, depends on a lot of variables, like microbial activity, to assit in breaking down organics INTO their salt form...this will NEVER HAPPEN as precisely as a balanced hydroponic nutrient, AND when you in the thick of flowering, and your in moderate size containers indoors, you soil is getting somewhat depeted and u have to suppliment anyways, with a quality hydroponic nutrient.....
Now for why I started this response about a flushing question....Once you learn how to read you plants, hydroponics requires a very moderate feeding program...I NEVER increase my nute when the plants look good and are growing nicely...IF THEY show the 1st sign of needing more, feed them a little more....Once you know YOUR plants, providing you have been paying attention, you Already know the amts that keep them pretty and at what stage of growth....Now, if you have not been overfeeding them, they have no buildup and basically none in reserve (they dont need reserve if your doing your job)....NO NEED FOR FLUSHING...when I get down to 2 weeks prior to harvest, I cut my nutes in half...Since I have not been overfeeding them, they almost IMMEDIATELY show signs of deficiencies...I want that then....for the last week, I completely withhold nutirents...by then they have yellowed and by harvest, there is only light green remaining in the buds inner leaves...Sweet as candy...If I completely withheld nute 2 weeks out, it would be too early and TOO MUCH yellowing occurs...Small inner leaves (covered with trichs) would yellow, die and break off..the ultimate, is when the yellowing is just occuring in the main tops...all the other leaf will already have yellowing cometely and or dropped off...flushing is for plants grown TOO RICH for too long.....Learn to read YOUR plants and how to feed WITHOUT a TDS meter...feeding charts are generic, dependent on much..and IMO, too high....when u can consistently grow quality buds WITHOUT a TDS meter, YOU HAVE ARRIVED...regards, Y.T...cpl pics for credibility..current full crop (mostly THC bomb)...previous crop of White widow and Cheese candy...these are in a slightly modified Hempy bucket...went back to that after years of water culture...View attachment 4008455 View attachment 4008456 View attachment 4008457 View attachment 4008458 View attachment 4008459 View attachment 4008460
Click to expand...

Really great post!
 
@#$"&-

@#$"&-

Active Member
Sorry if this is off topic, buuttt since the conversation is basically about finishing plants, here goes. Has anyone gradually raised their lights during flower to mimic lower light that mother nature provides. Overly intense light might cause the plant to uptake water and nutes that is undesirable before harvest. Just throwing this out there for knowledge.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Ok so the the molecules move to where ever but if I did feed would they still not be everywhere and why would only after they move would it cause any taste, they were there before, if that makes sense, I'm high lol. I'm not trying to argue, more like discussing over a beer ;). Again I've never, except once noticed a difference by flushing, just trying to figure out what everyone's train of thought is.
Click to expand...
I like this discussion. I am not a plant scientist and only have cursory knowledge I need to grow but I look at nutrients like building blocks or vitamins. They all have ther action in the plant and are used in the actual building of the plant tissue.

So they are directly involved in all the processes the plant has. Growth. Blooming. Trichomes. Flavonoids and terpenes are all built through action of nutrients and for example magnesium is at the center of every atom in a plant.

I was told too much mag "sparks" up in the bowl but how can that be if the plant is basically mag all over.

The other NPK and elements all are involved too in different ways.

But if a green plant tastes bad after drying please tell people to stop bothering me. :-)

I think when they are too green it is excess chlorophyll that tastes bad and harsh. And of course overfeeding hurts the production of all the good stuff.

And we say feed when we mean fertilize. The sun or Grow lights provide the energy for the plants actions. The fertilizer is the basic elements the plant needs.

It's not like us with food.

I need a textbook to answer your question specifically though. Maybe a botonist will chime in.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Lucky Luke said:
Bingo.
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And part of that is to flush for a period of time with just plain water, that is the core of this and nothing else really. Do you stop feeding in the hope that you are allowing the plant to use up its stores, or, do you feed till the end and keep the plant healthy and green. It's really not about anything else IMO. And yes I find it interesting although I'm to lazy or it's a new strain to figure out when the optimum time is to stop giving nutrients. And I don't taste a difference lol. I vape and use concentrates, very rarely do I smoke a joint, never smoke a bowl, so no black ash just brown lol.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
CannaBruh said:
Have you tried "fed properly" with a mild flushing at the very end? That's more or less what I do but the mild is severe and it can be 1-2 weeks to only a few days, completely arbitrary as the plant dictates not a calendar. No doubt you probably grow some fire with your regimen.
Click to expand...

Yes. I strive to only give each individual plant in my staggered perpetual garden as close to only what it needs.

Like I said I was newer and not as good at this as now but I did what I just said above and then 1 and 2 week flushes (they went yellow way too fast even at a week) and to the end.

I will say that I likely only have 250 - 500 ppm's in the runoff the last watering or two.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Ok bed time lol. Surely to god there has to be a study that actually shows on a molecular level what does or does not happen, if not there should be lol. I'm tired of looking a the rain, tree, sun pictures ;).
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
@#$"&- said:
Sorry if this is off topic, buuttt since the conversation is basically about finishing plants, here goes. Has anyone gradually raised their lights during flower to mimic lower light that mother nature provides. Overly intense light might cause the plant to uptake water and nutes that is undesirable before harvest. Just throwing this out there for knowledge.
Click to expand...
All I've ever done is length of light not intensity, wonder if that that may also cause more color to show if plant produced less chlorophyll because of it.
 
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