I'm not sure how many of you know about this but there is going to be mosque built a few blocks from Ground Zero. This action has outraged many Americans. But in legality, it is according with all laws and is protected by the constitution and I believe the 1st Amendment stating freedom of religion and construction of house of worship. Anyways this angers people because either they are ignorant, uneducated, or just plainly hates Muslims. I myself as a Muslim do not agree with the construction of this mosque because its just too much of a sensitive thing. People don't realize that importance of individuality. If one particular person who is Muslim commits a act of terror doesint mean all Muslims are terrorists. Its that simple. If a mosque can't be built near Ground Zero then Catholic Churches shouldint be built near children. If all Muslims are terrorists then all Catholics are pedophiles right? People can't get that through their close minded heads. Some say Ground Zero has become sacred ground but just a few blocks down theres a strip club and a betting arena. The media has used so much propaganda that its on brainwashing level. Just like the propaganda films used against pot the same thing is happening against Muslims. Anyways please leave your opinion on this issue. Like I said before I disagree with this Mosque it puts Muslims in danger of being attacked by racists and conservatives.
The Ground Zero Mosque debate.
- Thread starter Toxsick
- Start date
HomeGrown&Smoked
Active Member
+ rep on clear thinking. The only beef with what you have typed is that the mosque isn't being built on ground zero, it is being built at the former site of a Burlington Coat Factory store. There is a reason the Founding Fathers wanted a seperation of church and state: when you throw religion in the mix people start foaming at the mouths, screaming how "their" god is only one and true God, and taking up arms to try and defend their stance- that kinda stuff doesn't play well with keeping a nation running for over 225 years. I don't see why we are now trying to go against that. Within a couple of hundred miles of where I live there is a huge statue with the confederate flag flapping in the breeze. This is right off (within 20 yards) of the interstate, and is on private land. Whenever some of my cohorts start talking about keeping the mosque out of NYC, I just ask them for their thoughts on the statue. When they all agree it is ok to have there in spite of the feelings it might inspire in others, I then ask them how is that situation any different than the mosque. We have been brainwashed to believe that islam is an evil religion, but we aren't told much about the crusades, the spanish inquisition, and the witch trials in europe (no one in america was killed by the witch trials, fyi) and how christianity promoted that evil as being the "work of God."
Everyone needs to just kick back, relax, then pass that shit to the left.
Everyone needs to just kick back, relax, then pass that shit to the left.
You're not even close on that one.
"The best-known trials were conducted by the Court of Oyer and Terminer in 1692 in Salem Town. Over 150 people were arrested and imprisoned, with even more accused but not formally pursued by the authorities. At least five more of the accused died in prison. All twenty-six who went to trial before this court were convicted. The four sessions of the Superior Court of Judicature in 1693, held in Salem Village, but also in Ipswich, Boston, and Charlestown, produced only three convictions in the thirty-one witchcraft trials it conducted. The two courts convicted twenty-nine people of the capital felony of witchcraft. Nineteen of the accused, fourteen women and five men, were hanged. One man (Giles Corey) who refused to enter a plea was crushed to death under heavy stones in an attempt to force him to do so."
HomeGrown&Smoked
Active Member
My bad RIU, 20 people were killed over witchcraft in the US. The point was, people were being executed in large numbers in europe for being witches, and while people were being accused of being witches in the US, only one was killed. I feel confident my mistake does not corrupt the integrity of my post. Thanks.
20<700
doc111
Well-Known Member
Go back and read it again. 19 were hanged and one was crushed to death. That would make a grand total of 20.
HomeGrown&Smoked
Active Member
yeah doc, thats why i corrected myself after i posted. Just take a deep breath, and stick with me on this: I brought up the witch trials because it was a horrible thing that was done in the name of god, and how that isn't limited to any one religion. I mentioned the european witch trials since over 700 people were killed for being witches, and I don't care what math you use, 700 is greater than 20. This thread started as the mosque debate, I put my opinion out there, you wonderful fact checkers have wieghed in on my discepency, I have corrected myself and pointed out the overall insignificance of that to the arguement with the mosque. So, if everyone is finished fact-checking, would anyone else like to repond with THEIR thoughts?
thriller.in.guerrilla
Member
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque
I would hate to live in America. I love living in England where we have Charles Darwin on our £10 note, rather than 'in god we trust'. We have the BBC, not Fox news... The NHS. AND we are just a generally a much more tolerant country. I think that the community centre- with muslim prayer room- to improve inter faith relations should be built two blocks from the site... I always wonder... why are the lives of those americans that died there more significant than those of the millions of Africans dying each year from hunger or those killed or in need of aid due to the flooding of flooding in Pakistan. Or even those people dying in America through awful health care. Why not spend the 600bn a year currently spent on American military funding on something useful?
I would hate to live in America. I love living in England where we have Charles Darwin on our £10 note, rather than 'in god we trust'. We have the BBC, not Fox news... The NHS. AND we are just a generally a much more tolerant country. I think that the community centre- with muslim prayer room- to improve inter faith relations should be built two blocks from the site... I always wonder... why are the lives of those americans that died there more significant than those of the millions of Africans dying each year from hunger or those killed or in need of aid due to the flooding of flooding in Pakistan. Or even those people dying in America through awful health care. Why not spend the 600bn a year currently spent on American military funding on something useful?
I didn't intend to demean you, just to correct an innocent factual error.
And the current mosque location is a terrible idea. A lot of people will get their panties in a bunch if this goes through as planned.
I guess that I would also be in the crowd of pissed Christians because to my understanding it is symbolic in the Muslum world (faith?) to erect a mosque on the ground of a great victory.
Is that what the intent is here? A hundred million dollar billboard that says "We kicked their asses"?
HomeGrown&Smoked
Active Member
That's my bad dude- Hadn't smoked in a while and I ended up getting my panties in a bunch. Now that I smoked and thought about it, I did come off as a tard. What can I say, I have my moments. I just didnt want this thread to tun into a Salem Witch Trial debate. But onto the topic at hand . . .
Ultimately it would come down to the 1st Amendment- the right to free speech and religion. This country was founded on religous and political freedom; not having to worry about being presecuted for your beliefs as long as those beliefs didn't directly harm another. The guy heading up the project to get the mosque put in was actually appointed by the bush admin to help with muslim americans relations, so he isn't some radical bouncing into the scene. I don't think it is a ploy to put a marker at a site of victory, but I could be wrong. If we would be willing to let a christian church be built there, then we shouldn't protest when someone wants to build a mosque there.
With that being said . . .
It is also a 1st Amendment right to protest something we don't like, as long as that protest doesn't harm another. And I think that is why this is such a turbulent issue- it essentially puts the 1st Amendment at battle with itself. But think about this- for over a billion people a mosque is their way of giving glory to God, would it really feel right to protest against their right to worship freely? It is very similar to the civil rights era and the way black people were treated. They were treated in a way that bred contempt and mistrust, and at certain times that contempt and mistrust came boiling over in the streets, and choas struck. I just get the feeling that protesting someone's right to practice religion freely will breed the same kind of contempt.
Ultimately it would come down to the 1st Amendment- the right to free speech and religion. This country was founded on religous and political freedom; not having to worry about being presecuted for your beliefs as long as those beliefs didn't directly harm another. The guy heading up the project to get the mosque put in was actually appointed by the bush admin to help with muslim americans relations, so he isn't some radical bouncing into the scene. I don't think it is a ploy to put a marker at a site of victory, but I could be wrong. If we would be willing to let a christian church be built there, then we shouldn't protest when someone wants to build a mosque there.
With that being said . . .
It is also a 1st Amendment right to protest something we don't like, as long as that protest doesn't harm another. And I think that is why this is such a turbulent issue- it essentially puts the 1st Amendment at battle with itself. But think about this- for over a billion people a mosque is their way of giving glory to God, would it really feel right to protest against their right to worship freely? It is very similar to the civil rights era and the way black people were treated. They were treated in a way that bred contempt and mistrust, and at certain times that contempt and mistrust came boiling over in the streets, and choas struck. I just get the feeling that protesting someone's right to practice religion freely will breed the same kind of contempt.
Bonesplitter
Member
It all comes down to private property rights. We contend that we have the right to grow whatever the fuck we want on our land and the Muslim owners of that land in NYC should be able to build whatever they want. There isn't outrage over Catholic churches being built in Oklahoma City after a Catholic by the name of Timothy McVeigh bombed a building there back in 1995.
This is just a non-issue that the media and politicians are using to divert attention from the real problems.
This is just a non-issue that the media and politicians are using to divert attention from the real problems.
iNVESTIGATE
Well-Known Member
............................. there wasn't even a proper investigation into September 11th, 2001.
Until theres an ACTUAL 9/11/01 INDEPENDENT ( Nobody w/ massive conflicts of interest like in the 9/11 cOmission ) INVESTIGATION. Once investigated. Then maybe we can debate this freakin mosque.... inmyopinion lol
oh, and while were at it lets start fucking tearin' down and halting all christian/catholic churchs. because timothy mcveigh was a practising christ lover........... so wtf wheres the line drawn?
Until theres an ACTUAL 9/11/01 INDEPENDENT ( Nobody w/ massive conflicts of interest like in the 9/11 cOmission ) INVESTIGATION. Once investigated. Then maybe we can debate this freakin mosque.... inmyopinion lol
oh, and while were at it lets start fucking tearin' down and halting all christian/catholic churchs. because timothy mcveigh was a practising christ lover........... so wtf wheres the line drawn?
Timothy McVeigh bombed the Alfred P. Murrah building because he was trying to spark a revolt against the federal government in retaliation for the Ruby Ridge incident.
911 al Qaeda operatives were on Jihad for Islam for the express purpose to "wake America up"".
911 happened because of religion (Islam).
Timothy McVeigh happened to be religious (Catholic).
Thats the way it plays out in my mind.
AzNsOuLjAh27
New Member
My dad is a politician here in NY and he was on the Radio interview talkin about this on the ride to my new college. He basically gets all the inside scoops from me, i told him to argue for the mosque b/c freedom of religion, but like right after the interview mad people called in mad as hell. And that lies the problem right there, look what this damn mosque is doing to Americans and New Yorkers its dividing us more and more, and what it is a dividing game. "Division is a new world order (for anybody that like the band Rancid) and thats exactly what it comes down too. Another thing is America needs to start another war in Iran pretty soon, they need to enrage the people and get the rild-up about the "damn" brown people and the muslims, so people don't mind that we stay in iraq, people don't mind that kill more brown muslims. And thats what its about, and what people need to do is research who is funding this mosque, its the fuckin rockafellars, and the CFR (aka the new world order)
- Carnegie Corporation of New York
- Rockefeller Brothers
- Rockefeller Philanthropy
- Rockefeller Brothers Fund
- Global Fund for Women
- William & Mary Greve Foundation
- The Sister Fund
- The Russell Family Foundation
- Danny Kaye & Sylvia Fine Foundation
- Graham Charitable Foundation
- Deak Family Foundation
- Henry Luce Foundation
- The Elizabeth Foundation
- The Ms. Foundation
- Hunt Alternatives
I'd like to research this further for myself, can you please provide sources for your information?
Thank you.
AzNsOuLjAh27
New Member
sure. be sure to link on the links it provides you with direct sources, off there own website.
http://www.infowars.com/ground-zero-mosque-imam-is-globalist-stooge/
http://www.nationalexpositor.com/News/2819.html
-Ground Zero Mosque Imam Is Globalist Stooge
http://www.infowars.com/ground-zero-mosque-imam-is-globalist-stooge/
http://www.nationalexpositor.com/News/2819.html
-Ground Zero Mosque Imam Is Globalist Stooge
Al Qaeda does not even represent 1% of Muslims.
crackerboy
Active Member
Look this is a lose lose situation for Americans. If we let them build it then the terrorist say look we have won. If we don't let them build it they say see America is a fraud no religious freedom. I say it is in bad taste to build it there. But with that said, our solders fight and die so that we can have the rights that we do. How many Muslims are fighting for in the US military for those very rights. You CAN'T tell them when they come home that they can't worship where ever they want. I consider myself somewhat of a conservative christian and I could not imagine someone saying that we could not build a church near ground zero. Although now a days it seems to be worse and worse.
I say let them build it cause its there rights as Americans and screw what the terrorists think, we'll just drop a few more bombs on them so they can't say they won.
I say let them build it cause its there rights as Americans and screw what the terrorists think, we'll just drop a few more bombs on them so they can't say they won.
How can the terrorists say they won? Over a million Iraqis have died so far.
sonar
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone wants to infringe on religious freedom, that's what makes this so complicated. It's a matter of sensitivity. Everyone knows Muslims have a right to worship in this country. I'm not sure how zoning laws in NYC work, but I imagine it wouldn't take much to have this slap in the face to America stopped.
Hey, while we are at it, let's go ahead and build a German cultural center at Auschwitz, and a Shinto shrine at Pearl Harbor...The German and Japanese people weren't ALL bad. In fact, maybe we should raise the Arizona and have it hauled to the dump in order to make some room. Besides being grossly inappropriate, what the problem?
Hey, while we are at it, let's go ahead and build a German cultural center at Auschwitz, and a Shinto shrine at Pearl Harbor...The German and Japanese people weren't ALL bad. In fact, maybe we should raise the Arizona and have it hauled to the dump in order to make some room. Besides being grossly inappropriate, what the problem?