the idea of free market capitalism is a joke

medicineman

New Member
Did you read the article that Johnnyorganic posted, Med? I suspect that you did not.

Please read the article in it's entirety, after which, your complete stupidity won't be hanging out so far for all to see.

Vi

PS: Johnny ... excellent find, bro. That article was right on!
So your reply is that I'm stupid. Brilliant, just brilliant. Ever the asshole eh redd? I read this part, makes sense:
Yes, markets are guilty of excess, greed, even corruption.
“We’re not perfect people,” Meltzer says. “Capitalism matches mankind.”
 

ViRedd

New Member
Yes, Med ... you are a stupid oaf ... and I mean that in all sincerity.

I never said that capitalism is 100% moral. The answer to immorality in a capitalistic system isn't more government regulations and bailouts. The answer is cops, courts and jails.

Now, read Johnny's article in it's entirety, absorb it, and learn something.

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Yes, Med ... you are a stupid oaf ... and I mean that in all sincerity.

I never said that capitalism is 100% moral. The answer to immorality in a capitalistic system isn't more government regulations and bailouts. The answer is cops, courts and jails.

Now, read the Johnny's article in it's entirety and learn something.

Vi
Look asshole, I'm sure I could best you in an IQ test, so calling me stupid is just...........well stupid. I read the article and found it was full of excuses why the market failed, but no-one was taking any responsibility, like, oh well, shit happens. Why aren't those execs. paying with their jobs. They ran those corporations into the ground, or at least didn't see the failures happening. They should clean house. Let me ask you a simple question, say you had a few hundred shares of one of these failed financial entities, you lost thousands. Wouldn't you fire the Boss if you could? I'll guarantee you if a lowly employee lost a thousand bucks of company money, he'd be fired on the spot.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
Look asshole, I'm sure I could best you in an IQ test, so calling me stupid is just...........well stupid. I read the article and found it was full of excuses why the market failed, but no-one was taking any responsibility, like, oh well, shit happens. Why aren't those execs. paying with their jobs. They ran those corporations into the ground, or at least didn't see the failures happening. They should clean house. Let me ask you a simple question, say you had a few hundred shares of one of these failed financial entities, you lost thousands. Wouldn't you fire the Boss if you could? I'll guarantee you if a lowly employee lost a thousand bucks of company money, he'd be fired on the spot.
It doesn't really have to do with intelligence although I think you are not dumb. Dumb ideas yes. You cannot take the thought process to the next level. Because something sounds like a good thing to do, YES WE CAN, doesn't mean it will work or is the best answer.

It has been proven countless times how well the free market system works. Options are always best. But when a crook gets into the mix with lies and corruption you put 2 and 2 together, get 4191, and announce it doesn't work. While continually ignoring all the successful honest people who make it work. I wonder what color the sky is where you live?
 

medicineman

New Member
It doesn't really have to do with intelligence although I think you are not dumb. Dumb ideas yes. You cannot take the thought process to the next level. Because something sounds like a good thing to do, YES WE CAN, doesn't mean it will work or is the best answer.

It has been proven countless times how well the free market system works. Options are always best. But when a crook gets into the mix with lies and corruption you put 2 and 2 together, get 4191, and announce it doesn't work. While continually ignoring all the successful honest people who make it work. I wonder what color the sky is where you live?
Simple answer to your above post. Too many crooks. Human nature dictates that if you can get away with dipping into the cookie jar, you will. Hence, more regulation needs to be in place. Do I believe there may be an honest businessman or two, well yes, it probably has happened, but the very nature of business is to screw the other guy first. When deals are made, someone gets screwed. The people making the deals may not be getting screwed, but you can rest assured someone is. Those deals in congress, do we get screwed? When businesses make deals, does someone get screwed. I'd bet in 99.9% of the time, someone gets screwed. You either are doin the screwin or getting screwed. That's capitalism in action. JMHO.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Simple answer to your above post. Too many crooks. Human nature dictates that if you can get away with dipping into the cookie jar, you will. Hence, more regulation needs to be in place. Do I believe there may be an honest businessman or two, well yes, it probably has happened, but the very nature of business is to screw the other guy first. When deals are made, someone gets screwed. The people making the deals may not be getting screwed, but you can rest assured someone is. Those deals in congress, do we get screwed? When businesses make deals, does someone get screwed. I'd bet in 99.9% of the time, someone gets screwed. You either are doin the screwin or getting screwed. That's capitalism in action. JMHO.
^^^ These are the ramblings of a person who is completely ignorant of how the free market works. Such a deluded, skewed, negative view, Med. My God, you are a troubled person. It must really suck to be you.

Look, the art of successful negotiations is that everyone walks away from the table feeling as though he or she has gotten a fair shake. That, and excellent service is what keeps the customer/client happy and returning to give you repeat business. If someone walks away from the table feeling they got screwed, what are the chances for repeat business? In addition to good morals, it is the desire for repeat business and customer referrals that keep businessmen honest. Competition also keeps the playing field honest.

When there are crooks involved in this equation, they screw everything up for the MAJORITY who are honest dealers. Yes, the crooks belong in jail. Yes, they should lose their jobs. Yes, they should be fined. Yes, they should be locked up away from society.

Your call for more regulations to stifle capitalism is ludicrous, to say the least. You remind me of the anti-gun Nazis who continually call for more gun laws when we already have over 20,000 gun laws on the books. I'm sure you are aware of that, no?

Vi
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Look asshole, I'm sure I could best you in an IQ test, so calling me stupid is just...........well stupid. I read the article and found it was full of excuses why the market failed, but no-one was taking any responsibility, like, oh well, shit happens. Why aren't those execs. paying with their jobs. They ran those corporations into the ground, or at least didn't see the failures happening. They should clean house. Let me ask you a simple question, say you had a few hundred shares of one of these failed financial entities, you lost thousands. Wouldn't you fire the Boss if you could? I'll guarantee you if a lowly employee lost a thousand bucks of company money, he'd be fired on the spot.
Med, or did we agree that I could call you Asshole?

Anyway, the problem with your view is that it ignores the fact that the majority of the corruption occurs in the giant corporations that government spends all its time protecting, coddling, and accepting bribes, and kickbacks from (on top of the vast amounts they extort and steal.)

The largest institution on the face of the Earth, with the most corruption is ...

The Federal and State Governments, which are monopolies. There is no room for competition, because those entities would quickly use their monopoly on "legal" force to stamp it out.

Then there's the fact that the vast majority of the funds that have been spent on the bail outs have gone to political organizations, CitiGroup, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers (temporary federal loans to a subsidiary), Merrill Lynch. All of those "major" "financial" institutions have one thing in common, they donate a lot to Democrats.

With the Democrat control of Congress, and a president that has no belief in the free market system (as proven by his support of the bail outs) it is clear that the firms that benefitted the most were the ones that paid the most, either to Democrats or Republicans.

Of course, you're solution is to punish the corporations, as opposed to the government, which seems like punishing Drug Users instead of Drug Pushers. If an entity makes a product/service available, then why should the people using that product/service be punished. Isn't it logical to go after the provider?

Of course, such logic clearly escapes you, or perhaps you do not recognize the hypocrisy of your stated views...

The solution isn't to cut the users of government influence because more corporations will come up to take advantage of it. The solution is to reduce government in size so it is not able to act in a partial manner towards corporations that contribute to political campaigns.

Of course, that also goes directly against your views that government should act like a father/mother/wife/husband to everyone, and provide them with things that they are not capable of providing for themselves.

Thus, you have a conflict of ideology, because big government breeds big corruption. If you move to cut down government, you're likely to have to reduce spending on all those idiotic hand outs government makes. But if you fail to cut down government, then you have to accept the fact that it is going to be corrupt.

There is no one, or the other, you can not have big government and no corruption (with out millions of lines of legal code that are easily subject to being manipulated to create new loopholes for political sycophants), nor can you have small government and your hand outs.

You can either have big government with the corruption it brings, and the hand outs, or you can have small government, with out the corruption of big government, and no hand outs.
 

medicineman

New Member
You can either have big government with the corruption it brings, and the hand outs, or you can have small government, with out the corruption of big government, and no hand outs.
So you are Naive enough to suppose that a lack of oversight by government would clean up the corporations? I sincerely doubt it. The nature of man is to fuck over anyone so himself can benefit. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. If you removed government controls and regulations, with the job market as it is, the average wage would freefall into the 1.00-3.00 range, the great depression would go into full swing. Remember this: during the great depression, the rich made out like bandits, maybe, just maybe that's because they are Bandits. Letting corporations control themselves is exactly what put us into this depression, come on, think about it. Blaming government is rediculous. The only blame is the removal of regulations that the Bush/Cheney regime put into effect. I'll even give the Clinton Regime some credit for this, but the majority of blame lies strictly with Bush. The greedy fucks in the finance industry and wall street were allowed Carte-Blanche run of the industry without nary a protective regulation in site. this is exactly what free market Capitalism is all about.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
You can either have big government with the corruption it brings, and the hand outs, or you can have small government, with out the corruption of big government, and no hand outs.
So you are Naive enough to suppose that a lack of oversight by government would clean up the corporations? I sincerely doubt it. The nature of man is to fuck over anyone so himself can benefit. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. If you removed government controls and regulations, with the job market as it is, the average wage would freefall into the 1.00-3.00 range, the great depression would go into full swing. Remember this: during the great depression, the rich made out like bandits, maybe, just maybe that's because they are Bandits. Letting corporations control themselves is exactly what put us into this depression, come on, think about it. Blaming government is rediculous. The only blame is the removal of regulations that the Bush/Cheney regime put into effect. I'll even give the Clinton Regime some credit for this, but the majority of blame lies strictly with Bush. The greedy fucks in the finance industry and wall street were allowed Carte-Blanche run of the industry without nary a protective regulation in site. this is exactly what free market Capitalism is all about.
No, insistence on by people like you that government must fix problems that it was responsible for creating was what made the Great Depression the Great Depression.

FDRs programs ultimately made the situation worse, and on top of that provided the kind of stupidity that allowed them to get away with stealing 40% of the nations wealth through devaluation of the dollar (the event that happened after the forced redemption of Gold for worthless paper.)

Depressions/Recessions/Expansions are a necessary part of the business cycle that have a multitude of reasons behind them.

You talk about monopolies, and then go on supporting the largest, most corrupt monopoly in the country, the US Government. Do you not see the absurdity of your arguments?
 

misshestermoffitt

New Member
Did anyone hear today about the hedge fund manager that is missing? It is believed that 350 million dollars of other peoples money is missing with him as well.

Can we say Bernie Madoff Jr? Bernie and the judge in his case have set a dangerous precident, if you can steal that kind of money and get a smack on the hand before you are sent home to your cushy penthouse apartment where you then try to mail out assests so you won't end up broke, why wouldn't other people try it too? At least this new guy was smart enough to get himself dissappeared, I bet he's on a beach somewhere in a country with no extradition treaty.

Human nature dictates that if you can get away with dipping into the cookie jar, you will. Hence, more regulation needs to be in place.

This statement seems to ring true, wouldn't you agree?





 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Did anyone hear today about the hedge fund manager that is missing? It is believed that 350 million dollars of other peoples money is missing with him as well.

Can we say Bernie Madoff Jr? Bernie and the judge in his case have set a dangerous precident, if you can steal that kind of money and get a smack on the hand before you are sent home to your cushy penthouse apartment where you then try to mail out assests so you won't end up broke, why wouldn't other people try it too? At least this new guy was smart enough to get himself dissappeared, I bet he's on a beach somewhere in a country with no extradition treaty.

Human nature dictates that if you can get away with dipping into the cookie jar, you will. Hence, more regulation needs to be in place.

This statement seems to ring true, wouldn't you agree?
No, because it takes two to Tango. If you can't tell when you are dealing with a fishy character then there's something wrong with you. If you don't have enough knowledge in a field to tell that you are being fed BS then you shouldn't be doing anything in that field. This is true for investing, commodities, any of the branches of science, or any other human endeavor.

Besides, the failure behind Mad & Off (aside from the people that chose to invest with him) was the fact that the SEC, when warned that his returns were statistically anomalous failed to take action. So much for more Regulation. More useful would be intelligent government agents.

But if they were intelligent they wouldn't be in government to begin with, because the private sector would have bought them away.

So, not only do we have a large corrupt bureaucracy, we have a large corrupt bureaucracy managed by idiots.

Then again, to want to be a bureaucrat you have to be an idiot, or have very lax morals, to begin with.
 

misshestermoffitt

New Member
That is true. If I had a large amount of money I think I'd vacuum seal it and then bury it in my yard and plant a cactus on top, it'd be safer there.
 
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