The Impact of Whiny Bernie Babies

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
wow well if that wasn't a passive aggressive non answer. with terms.
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I'd get along with BS just fine if they would stop spewing fake news.

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Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Exactly. We want to change the laws. In order to do so we need Democrats in office. You dislike the fact that every senator who was present when Sanders submitted reform for CU supported it. I have no idea why.
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We had Democrats in control in 2009 but didn't end up with universal healthcare. I hold Democrats to a higher standard because I don't expect Republicans to represent me. I do expect Democrats to represent me, when they don't, I won't support them. You say they support the same things I support, so why wouldn't they represent me? Do you think my interests coincide with corporate interests? Do my interests include neoliberal ideals?
Fogdog said:
LOL, "those votes weren't legitimate". Yes they were.
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So what would you say about the votes the GOP congress made more than 70 times to repeal the ACA while he was president, and the eventual failure to repeal once they gained control of the government?

I will only believe Democrats support passing universal healthcare when they pass universal healthcare. When they gain control of congress and the presidency and pass it. Anyone can cast a vote when they don't have the means to actually go through with it, as shown by the ACA repeal attempt. They do it all the time. That's how it works in politics. If the Democratic party supported universal healthcare as an entity, not just a handful of progressive politicians, they would highlight it on their party platform, especially going into the midterm elections since a majority of Americans, and a substantial majority of Democrats support it. Instead all they're still talking about is protecting the ACA. Establishment Democrats responses about universal healthcare are wishy washy at best, just like Rendon's opposition to SB562.
Fogdog said:
And here is an example of a bald faced lie. "That's why Feinstein, Pelosi, and Hillary Clinton are on record saying they don't support it." No they aren't on record for saying exactly that. Cite a record showing they said exactly the words "don't support single payer healthcare" or you are a vitriol spewing liar.
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"Some "better idea" [single payer] that will never, ever come to pass" -Clinton


Question from interviewer: "Do you the move now for Democrats is to make single payer a plank in the 2018 platform?"

"No, I don't." -Pelosi

She goes on to say "the comfort level with the broader base of the American people is not there yet.", which is a lie according to every current poll


"If healthcare is going to be a complete takeover by the government, I am not there." -Feinstein


Question: "Do you think the Democratic party should try and fight for more progressive healthcare like a public option or even single payer?"

"Yes." -Warren

No hesitation, no bullshit. That's how every Democrat should answer that question, the fact that they don't along with the open and legal campaign contributions from the previously cited industries, lends credibility to the idea that they don't actually support it. But like st0w and I said, we'll find out when Democrats take back control. So you can have your opinion and I have my opinion, the only way we're going to find out which one is right is when that happens. I'm not interested in arguing about these types of things because the argument will go on until either side is proven. Leave it at that and we'll find out later.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
We had Democrats in control in 2009 but didn't end up with universal healthcare. I hold Democrats to a higher standard because I don't expect Republicans to represent me. I do expect Democrats to represent me, when they don't, I won't support them. You say they support the same things I support, so why wouldn't they represent me? Do you think my interests coincide with corporate interests? Do my interests include neoliberal ideals?

So what would you say about the votes the GOP congress made more than 70 times to repeal the ACA while he was president, and the eventual failure to repeal once they gained control of the government?

I will only believe Democrats support passing universal healthcare when they pass universal healthcare. When they gain control of congress and the presidency and pass it. Anyone can cast a vote when they don't have the means to actually go through with it, as shown by the ACA repeal attempt. They do it all the time. That's how it works in politics. If the Democratic party supported universal healthcare as an entity, not just a handful of progressive politicians, they would highlight it on their party platform, especially going into the midterm elections since a majority of Americans, and a substantial majority of Democrats support it. Instead all they're still talking about is protecting the ACA. Establishment Democrats responses about universal healthcare are wishy washy at best, just like Rendon's opposition to SB562.


"Some "better idea" [single payer] that will never, ever come to pass" -Clinton


Question from interviewer: "Do you the move now for Democrats is to make single payer a plank in the 2018 platform?"

"No, I don't." -Pelosi

She goes on to say "the comfort level with the broader base of the American people is not there yet.", which is a lie according to every current poll


"If healthcare is going to be a complete takeover by the government, I am not there." -Feinstein


Question: "Do you think the Democratic party should try and fight for more progressive healthcare like a public option or even single payer?"

"Yes." -Warren

No hesitation, no bullshit. That's how every Democrat should answer that question, the fact that they don't along with the open and legal campaign contributions from the previously cited industries, lends credibility to the idea that they don't actually support it. But like st0w and I said, we'll find out when Democrats take back control. So you can have your opinion and I have my opinion, the only way we're going to find out which one is right is when that happens. I'm not interested in arguing about these types of things because the argument will go on until either side is proven. Leave it at that and we'll find out later.
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Not one of those women said they were "against single payer healthcare". Not a single time.

Start talking about the real threat to this country, Republicans.
 
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Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Not one of those women said they were "against single payer healthcare". Not a single time.
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Semantics. Each of them expressed blatant opposition to the idea of universal healthcare when Democrats are supposed to be the progressive party that supports it
Fogdog said:
Start talking about the real threat to this country, Republicans.
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I don't see any entertainment or educational value out of telling Trump supporters they're idiots all the time. It's a waste of my time. I expect Republicans to be terrible at governing, that's why I didn't vote for a Republican. What good is talking about how bad they are going to do? I don't have an obligation to fix them. I do however have an obligation to try to fix the Democratic party.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Semantics. Each of them expressed blatant opposition to the idea of universal healthcare when Democrats are supposed to be the progressive party that supports it

I don't see any entertainment or educational value out of telling Trump supporters they're idiots all the time. It's a waste of my time. I expect Republicans to be terrible at governing, that's why I didn't vote for a Republican. What good is talking about how bad they are going to do? I don't have an obligation to fix them. I do however have an obligation to try to fix the Democratic party.
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Bernie now hates you and what he has created
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
I agree that they should definitely get it right before they pass it. I just can't understand why they couldn't get it right the first time though. It's not as if there aren't plenty of single payer systems around the world that they could emulate.
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single payer has failed in fucking vermont.

there is no appetite for it.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Semantics. Each of them expressed blatant opposition to the idea of universal healthcare when Democrats are supposed to be the progressive party that supports it

I don't see any entertainment or educational value out of telling Trump supporters they're idiots all the time. It's a waste of my time. I expect Republicans to be terrible at governing, that's why I didn't vote for a Republican. What good is talking about how bad they are going to do? I don't have an obligation to fix them. I do however have an obligation to try to fix the Democratic party.
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Fake news, fabricated stories, stretched truth and outright lies about Democrats don't constitute entertainment or educational value either.

I'd have no problem with you going after real issues with the Democratic party. I'd have no issue with you taking on truly vile Democrats like Manchin so long as you stick to facts. But your namless, faceless establishment Democrats are not against single payer healthcare. Nameless, faceless Democrats wrote the platform for the DNC that specifically states the Democratic party supports Universal Healthcare. some of Sanders people from his campaign participated in writing that platform.

Example I do have a problem with is your made up bullshit about those female Democratic Party leaders. Not one of them can objectively be quoted as saying they are blatantly in opposition to universal healthcare. Not one of the quotes you posted even include those words. You can make up whatever you like but you can't change the facts. Which is why they are called facts as opposed to bullshit.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
people like you.
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I am mainstream Democrat. I actually support all the positions Bernie takes. Including that bit about coming together to defeat Right wing Republicans.

I continue to say I'm fine with you and other BS criticizing Democrats. I'm not fine with BS repeating right wing bullshit, fake news and lies.

My question regarding who are the "establishment Democrats" is to put names and faces to "those Democrat Establisments" who oppose single payer healthcare. When Pad named Clinton and Feinstein, he was caught out in a lie. They have never said they "oppose single payer healthcare". Not once.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I am mainstream Democrat. I actually support all the positions Bernie takes. Including that bit about coming together to defeat Right wing Republicans.

I continue to say I'm fine with you and other BS criticizing Democrats. I'm not fine with BS repeating right wing bullshit, fake news and lies.

My question regarding who are the "establishment Democrats" is to put names and faces to "those Democrat Establisments" who oppose single payer healthcare. When Pad named Clinton and Feinstein, he was caught out in a lie. They have never said they "oppose single payer healthcare". Not once.
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See post #282.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I am mainstream Democrat. I actually support all the positions Bernie takes. Including that bit about coming together to defeat Right wing Republicans.

I continue to say I'm fine with you and other BS criticizing Democrats. I'm not fine with BS repeating right wing bullshit, fake news and lies.

My question regarding who are the "establishment Democrats" is to put names and faces to "those Democrat Establisments" who oppose single payer healthcare. When Pad named Clinton and Feinstein, he was caught out in a lie. They have never said they "oppose single payer healthcare". Not once.
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Clinton said it will never, ever happen. Feinstein said she doesn't support it

What would you call that?

Why doesn't Pelosi cosponsor HR676 like the majority of her Democratic house members? I mean, you said she supports it and all, right?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
a fact that somehow failed to be true on election day. by 60 points.
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Weird, the electorate overwhelmingly supports something, but the legislature just can't get it passed even under Democratic majorities...

Princeton University might be able to shed some light on this issue; Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens

"By directly pitting the predictions of ideal-type theories
against each other within a single statistical model (using
a unique data set that includes imperfect but useful
measures of the key independent variables for nearly two
thousand policy issues), we have been able to produce
some striking findings. One is the nearly total failure of
“median voter” and other Majoritarian Electoral Democracy
theories. When the preferences of economic elites and
the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for,
the preferences of the average American appear to have
only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant
impact upon public policy."

"Furthermore, the preferences of economic elites (as
measured by our proxy, the preferences of “affluent”
citizens) have far more independent impact upon policy
change than the preferences of average citizens do. To be
sure, this does not mean that ordinary citizens always
lose out; they fairly often get the policies they favor, but
only because those policies happen also to be preferred
by the economically-elite citizens who wield the actual
influence."
 
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