The Learning Curve Could use some advice

Hey

New to this and figured id start really small and possibly work my way up.

having made a wooden box around 2.5ft high 1.5ft wide 1.5ft deep i decided to have a go.

Mysetup (which is probably laughable)

2.5 high x 1.5ft wide x 1.5ft deep Wooden box / with door for access
4 x 64k 23 actual watts spiral Cfls
4x 27k 23 actual watts Spiral Cfls

ive germinated 3 feminised seeds (had them for free) and planted into 1l plastic cups

im using organic soil from my local garden centre promoted for cloning/seedlings new plants ect


all 3 seeds broke ground on the 4th oct 14 and looked really healthy 7 days later there still looking the same and have yellowing of the leaves

i watered them at the beginning then everytime the top of soil is completely dry

temps get up to 85f when lights on and 73ish when off

i have two 9" pc axial fans one on the back of the box towards the bottom blowing in and one on the back of the box towards the top blowing out


running an 18/6 light schedule ive attached a pic i would have took or uploaded more but the quality is quiet distort

whats wrong with it?

Nute burn. Soil's too hot. Also looks like it might not drain well enough. If, when it grows into the container, it takes longer than 3 days to dry, you probably need 20% perlite next time.

I would have planted the seed in an 18oz container, transplant to 1gal, then 3gal (or whatever the final destination is. Easier to water small containers (the dry faster). And, you could correct a hot or poor-draining soil when transplanting.

thanks Az i was kind of under the same impression from everything i have read but i was a little unsure and bewildered to be fair.

i have ordered some perlite off ebay as its un-available from my area, as well as a pack of various pot sizes ranging from 0.25l right through to 5.0l so that should help with the future step ups.


i have been monitoring temps again last night and i think my exaust system could use some tweaking reached 88f (31c)


at the moment i have 2 x http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301344537072?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0-L&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0


one located top centre (exaust ) one located bottom right (air in )

i also have loads of holes around 1-2cm in diameter towards the top located left and right side of exhaust fan

and i have a few more located towards the bottom.

one problem i think i might have is the cab is about 2 inchs off the bedroom wall so the fans in effect are blowing against this
i am unable to move the cab as its chucked in the corner behind the tv stand as to make it as discreet as poss



would i be better off have the 2 x fans located at the top exhausting and just have i think there called passive air holes towards the bottom? maybe alot bigger than the 1-2cm i currently have?

i would like to be able to run it at around 75-78f if that would be poss?


thanks for the help so far mate really appreciate it

Do yourself a favor and buy a thermo/hydrometer that has a min/max setting. These are cheap, but super valuable for growing. It measures your temps and humidity, and it will give you the min and max of each over a 24hr period. Just manually checking it doesn't give you the entire picture...it's a really good tool to have.

If you have adequate air circulation and your humidity isn't ridiculously low(meaning it's at least over 35%), you shouldn't have any issues all the way up 85degrees. If your under 85 and having issues, it's not the heat. Even under 90, i've never had a problem(growth rate might be slowed, but plants never show any signs of stress, who so knows?) as long as my relative humidity was above 40%.

I don't think you need all those CFLs at this point...I have 18 party cups vegging under 2, T12 bulbs and that's plenty until they are about 5-6".

I would suggest starting in party cups and eliminating some of your lights- you just don't need that much light for seedlings or clones and at the moment the extra heat is your enemy. Get them vegging with just a couple CFLs in party cups until they are about 5-6", then transplant into your containers and try slowly adding back your lights.

If you really want a fool proof way to grow, I suggest PRO-MIX HP, which can be bought a lowes. It is a soiless medium with perlite and NO nutrients added. Promix HP, tapwater(as long as it's under 250ppm disolved solids), and floraNova bloom all the way through. Plant your seeds in party cups of promix and give them just water until they sprout. Once they are working on their first set of real leaves(the 3 blade ones) start giving them 1/4 tsp/gallon and slowly start to work you way up to almost a full teaspoon/gallon(should be feeding that around 3-4weeks after planting the seed).

Promix should be watered on a wet/dry cycle meaning let it really dry out before you water it again(if your unsure, i always say don't give it water until it starts to slightly wilt-better to under water than over water-an underwatered plant might look scray but it will bounce back when you give it water, an over watered plant is harder to correct)

Remove some lights, plant in smaller cups, don't over water. Promix is highly recommended by me for being the best medium for a newbie to get the hang of, and much better growth than soil. It's super versatile too - you can mix up your own organic mix with it, or you can blast it with chemical fertz. It's great for seeds and it's my go to cloning medium these days. If you want to use store bought fertz(miracle grow, jacks, etc.), that's perfectly fine and works GREAT in promix. Look for something along the lines of 10-5-5 for veg and 5-10-10 for flower. You can even grow nice plants using a 5-5-5 all the way through.

Just some advice, hope it may help steer you in the right direction! Definitely get a hydrometer though and see what your humidity is.

P.S. in the size space you have I wouldn't grow in anything bigger than .5-1gal containers. You definitely only need to go from a party cup to your final container, so one transplant.

Smaller containers are advantageous because you can water more often(they dry out quicker). Everytime you water it draws fresh oxygen into the root system. If your using too big of a container it stays wet and the disolved oxygen disapates, thus drowning/suffocating your plant. The reason hydro growth rates are faster is because you provide a steady source of super oxygenated water- the reason the DWC guys can grow in bucket of water(and see the best growth rate of any method) and their plants don't immediately drown. Just some food for thought, and why it is so important to use the right size container, have a good draining mix, and not over water.

Thanks squid really informative post there

ive actually been using a meter than measures min/max and current i just figured the max temps where my problem

having just checked the meter in the cab (its been in there for about 13 hours since my last reset lights on atm but about 3 hours worth of lights off)

the temps read

minimum temp : 70.4f and 42% RH
Max temps : 88.1f and 68% RH

current is 86.7f 60% RH


regarding your T12's how many watts per tube are you using? i did think that having all lights on was a bit much but then all the information i seem to read from here and over at 420 suggest that you can never have enough light.

the air flow seems to be ok to me ( im not fully diversed in ventilation tho ) the only way i can really explain i put a webcam in the grow and when all the cabs sealed up the pressure from the intake and exhaust is enough to slightly move the stems aswell as move the lights a little (they wave on the cords) so i would think this is adequate for the cab size ive got(but i might be wrong tbh).

im lacking a fan actually blowing air around the inside of the cab would this help drop the temp by a few degrees? or would it simply just be pushing hot air over the plants?

Thanks for the info on promix hp i dont think id be able to get it locally so probably have to order it in. i did notice at my local garden center they had soiless organic medium that did contain i think it was 15% perlite or something around there might have to grab a bag just to make things that bit easier.

in regards to my temps and air circulation would it be best to remove the active intake and swap it to an exhaust and just have two passive intakes maybe 2" - 3" in diameter? i have a feeling the air coming in is matching the ait coming out causing the rise in temps

also as im venting out the back of the cab towards a wall is there anyway i could expell this excess heat upwards rather than straight out at the wall? im thinking its just bounching back towards the cab and trapping


much obliged for the information so far really glad i registered and made this first initial post. (regretting not heading here before starting now lol )

You can try anything, but your temps and humidity seam OK. I had a feeling your humidity might be really low, but your numers seam ok.

You can try making your intake passive and adding the other fan as an exhuast like you mentioned. Sometime you have to play around with things and experiment.

The T12 are the old school thick fluro tubes, they are super weak. I think 18watts or something. I know that 1, T5 is almost 3 times as stong.

More light is better, especially for flower- but for seedlings and clones you barely need anything, just keep the light close and they won't stretch. I get super tight nodes on my clones from the T12s, and they produce almost NO heat - even seedlings can grow right into them for days and not burn! So these are some weak lights...but they work for sprouting and clones.

The first thing I would do is remove a bunch of lights and see if that helps your environment. You can always add more light, one blub at a time.

You can try blowing your exhaust up too, that definately might help. Running your lights during the coldest part of the day helps too. My lights come on when the sun goes down.

You do need to get your temps down, below 85, but I think your soil and container size had the most to do with what happened.

I gotta run, I'll sub up to this thread and try to follow your progress! Don't give up, you'll figure this out!

thanks squid much obliged

removed 2 of the cfls for a moment situated all 3 plants as close together and have 2 x 23w's sitting about 3-4" above.
temps have dropped currently sat at 75f and 58% RH

ill update with pics and info once ive noticed a considerable change hopefully as they grow so can my light setup


ive also just positioned a household fan lying down pointing vertical up the wall behind the box this seems to push the air up as soon as its venting so fingers crossed this will be enough when i do need to increase lighting

thanks again both Az & Squid really put alot into perspective for me

Figured id update this for a little more input


pictures below are from 25/10/14:

Plant 1


Plant 2


Plant 3




Im at the point where i dont think i can alter my setup without changing drastically. I have the 2 x Arctic F9 fans as exhausts now and a square cut out towards the bottom ( ruffly 3inch high x 3 inch wide ) for an intake i have one 80mm fan inside blowing just above the plants aimed up towards the cfls.

Still only running with the 3 23w cfls as temps go to high other wise :/

Temps taken close to the plants with the 3 Cfls hanging ruffly 3-4 inchs away from the tops of plants are:

Minimum Temp 22.6C With an RH of 52%
Maximum Temp 29.2 with an RH of 80%


ive just today gave them there first feed using something from the canna range not to sure of the product as a mate provided me with it as he reckoned the yellowing was from lack of (N) i let them dry completely out then fed them using 1/4 the strength and until run off was an ample amount.


any advice as to how these are doing?

seeds where germinated and planted on the 01/10/14

the original picture i posted on this thread was on the 4/10/14.


feed back welcome bare in mind im not in this for the massive amount of smoke its mainly to see how i go and to get the the stage that i am confident i could manage something a little bigger

Squidbilly said:

If you really want a fool proof way to grow, I suggest PRO-MIX HP, which can be bought a lowes. It is a soiless medium with perlite and NO nutrients added.

Click to expand...

When was the last time you saw it at Lowes? I bought about 8 bales when it was on clearance in June. They told me the distributor got in trouble for selling it to Lowes. Evidently, Premier Hort. has an exclusive arrangement with high-end nurseries, hydroshops. Premier makes a budget product for the mass-market "big box" retail stores like Lowes. It has no myco and the particles are smaller, like what they sweep up from the floor after making Pro-Mix for the professional market. They had some at Lowes and it was in a blue bag I think. When I run out of Pro-Mix I'm going to try some of that mass-market stuff, adding my own myco.

I was running 60/20/20 Pro-Mix HP, Kellog Patio Plus potting mix (from Lowes), and Perlite with GH Flora Series 3-part (hydro nutes). I had great results. I switched to Grow More Sea Grow (contains more organic ingredients). Now I'm doing 50/25/25. I intend to go to 40/30/30. I think having more soil will be better with those nutrients. More expectation of a soil biology than using synthetic nutes (and especially hydroponic nutes like I was doing).

BTW: Regarding NPK ratios, 3-1-2 in veg and 1-3-2 in flower seems to be widely popular. Advanced Nutrients are reported to use a PK ratio of 1-2 throughout the grow, with N changing from 3 in veg to 0 in final flower. I made this spreadsheet (<<link) to unwind a multi-bottle regimen into its NPK ratio and PPM strength, then recreate it using other nutrients. That might be useful to the OP if they want to use inexpensive nutes like Jack's Classic. To me, it's a lot of fun. I've unwound a few regimens. When I feed with Grow More, I'll vary things a little to give more K (for example).

U may want to drop that temp down a bit...under 80*.... Otherwise looks like a good start

az2000 said:

When was the last time you saw it at Lowes? I bought about 8 bales when it was on clearance in June. They told me the distributor got in trouble for selling it to Lowes. Evidently, Premier Hort. has an exclusive arrangement with high-end nurseries, hydroshops. Premier makes a budget product for the mass-market "big box" retail stores like Lowes. It has no myco and the particles are smaller, like what they sweep up from the floor after making Pro-Mix for the professional market. They had some at Lowes and it was in a blue bag I think. When I run out of Pro-Mix I'm going to try some of that mass-market stuff, adding my own myco.

I was running 60/20/20 Pro-Mix HP, Kellog Patio Plus potting mix (from Lowes), and Perlite with GH Flora Series 3-part (hydro nutes). I had great results. I switched to Grow More Sea Grow (contains more organic ingredients). Now I'm doing 50/25/25. I intend to go to 40/30/30. I think having more soil will be better with those nutrients. More expectation of a soil biology than using synthetic nutes (and especially hydroponic nutes like I was doing).

BTW: Regarding NPK ratios, 3-1-2 in veg and 1-3-2 in flower seems to be widely popular. Advanced Nutrients are reported to use a PK ratio of 1-2 throughout the grow, with N changing from 3 in veg to 0 in final flower. I made this spreadsheet (<<link) to unwind a multi-bottle regimen into its NPK ratio and PPM strength, then recreate it using other nutrients. That might be useful to the OP if they want to use inexpensive nutes like Jack's Classic. To me, it's a lot of fun. I've unwound a few regimens. When I feed with Grow More, I'll vary things a little to give more K (for example).

Click to expand...

They still carry the Pro-Mix Hp near me at the Lowes, when I found it there I was pretty excited. It's not in the compact bales, it's the smaller bags, but still...

I really hope they keep carrying it, but by the sound of it I may be out of luck. I think I'm the only person that buys it there, lol. Maybe once they run out they won't be restocking

I'm really impressed with the pro-mix and I don't think I'll be going back to coco. It's just too expensive and hard to get where I'm located. I was going through way more nutes and having to water way more frequently for similar results. For whatever reason, I seam to get way more aroma and taste from the peat based soiless mixes.

Geat advice mate, you know your stuff

any ingenious ways i can use to drop the temps? space is just over 3 sq ft there or their abouts

currently im using 2 x 92mm Arctic F9 fans as exhausts these are located at the rear of the box about as close to the top as i can get.

i also have about 4-6 10mm holes drilled around the top

towards the bottom of the back i have a square cut out about 3 inch wide 3 inch tall and an 80mm fan inside hanging so i can change its position this is blowing cool air in.

lights are about 3-4 inch above plant tops ruffly

box sits about 5 inchs off a main wall i have also tried moving it out for the night giving about a foot of space behind but temps still sit around the 83-84 mark

thanks for the input learning alot

Run a vent in from outside... assuming its colder out there