The Minimum Income Allocation..Income Base For Just "Being"..

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
starting with:
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i was thinking more about the times when he called carne a "gold digger" after carne told the story of his boyfriend (de facto husband/life partner) being murdered and beaten for being gay.

he attacked him relentlessly for no reason, even as carne tried to calmly correct his misconceptions.

it was at that point that i started to troll red, that miserable fuck.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
well i was just doing a quick compare/contrast..some of us have no family to be with but are thankful for the hot food they can buy at whole foods..the state has approved continuation of and is processing my SNAP as a full-time student am eligible for.
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Some day hun, I will show you how to really get the bucks from the government. Right now I am being paid to NOT work at a rate of $110/acre. 2 sections = 1280 acres. Then the government pretty much forces people to use my product when I am working.
 
Harrekin

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Some day hun, I will show you how to really get the bucks from the government. Right now I am being paid to NOT work at a rate of $110/acre. 2 sections = 1280 acres. Then the government pretty much forces people to use my product when I am working.
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If you can't fix a broken system then you may aswell game it like fuck...

Alas tho, Im happier saying that Iv never once taken the cheese.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
If you can't fix a broken system then you may aswell game it like fuck...

Alas tho, Im happier saying that Iv never once taken the cheese.
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Gaming the system would be using the US tax structure to send most of your capital gains into a self directed retirement account so that in the end, you actually come out as a pauper to the system. Or using buyback schemes to game the accounting on your books so you don't have to pay that tax as well, all legal of course.
It isn't cheese though, not unless you consider selling products and services to the government as "Cheese". I just consider it lucrative.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Gaming the system would be using the US tax structure to send most of your capital gains into a self directed retirement account so that in the end, you actually come out as a pauper to the system. Or using buyback schemes to game the accounting on your books so you don't have to pay that tax as well, all legal of course.
It isn't cheese though, not unless you consider selling products and services to the government as "Cheese". I just consider it lucrative.
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it's only lucrative because the government spends so much taxpayer money on price controls, otherwise you'd be farming at a loss. or, to put it another way, you'd have to find a different line of work.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
it's only lucrative because the government spends so much taxpayer money on price controls, otherwise you'd be farming at a loss. or, to put it another way, you'd have to find a different line of work.
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I agree that government made a bad choice when it came to the farm bill, but its in my best interest to take advantage of that while I can.

I wouldn't farm at a loss, No, most likely sell the farm and live the rest of my life as a multimillionaire actually. Or lease all the land except the homestead 20 acres and go on vacation a lot. I dunno.

Maybe the Fed will taper? I doubt it though, they need to keep prices up or government tax income will take a dive. What with China no longer buying our treasuries, I hope enough Americans trust their government enough to take on more of its own debt.
Can't wait til the fireworks start at the next debt ceiling debate in a few more months. That ought ta be a hoot now that the reality of the ACA is here.
 
echelon1k1

echelon1k1

New Member
UncleBuck said:
it's only lucrative because the government spends so much taxpayer money on price controls, otherwise you'd be farming at a loss. or, to put it another way, you'd have to find a different line of work.
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yet if we were talking about you it'd be you'd have to find a line of work :lol:
 
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
You think people who actually work should pay people "just to be alive"...?
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No.
Perhaps you need a refresher of how money is created?
Here, have a coloring book, perhaps that will help your drug-addled mind get on the path to understanding how this works (because I am "clearly retarded" leaving you...?).

[video=youtube;oLntiX4AeWc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLntiX4AeWc[/video]
 
FreedomWorks

FreedomWorks

Well-Known Member
Stephanie Kelton is a radical progressive way out in left field. She has no understanding of supply side economics

Stephanie Kelton's 12 Step Program for the Economy


Admit that the real economy is powerless against a de-regulated and de-supervised financial system

Recognize that the fiscal powers of the federal government can restore stability

Ignore the debt-to-GDP ratio; allow it to drift to whatever value is consistent with an economic recovery and a return to high employment

Enact a full payroll tax holiday by setting employer and employee FICA contributions to zero

Provide $1,000 per resident to state governments to help them stabilize projected budget shortfalls

Commit $2.5 trillion to restore our nation’s crumbling infrastructure and build a modern energy superhighway to facilitate expanded use of renewable energy, reduce greenhouse gas emissions and lessen our dependence on fossil fuels

Downsize the financial system; reduce the size of banks to the point that they no longer pose systemic risk
Ban the securitization of non-prime loans

Determine the real worth of bank assets; instruct the U.S. Treasury to conduct a survey of the underlying loan tapes and require banks to aggressively mark-to-market

Stabilize the housing market by creating a Home Owners’ Loan Corporation and bestow upon it a full range of powers, including renegotiation and rental-conversions, as deemed appropriate in each case

Announce a job guarantee program (like the WPA) to provide employment and income to the millions of Americans who will not find jobs in the private sector even after the economy recovers
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
I agree that government made a bad choice when it came to the farm bill, but its in my best interest to take advantage of that while I can.

I wouldn't farm at a loss, No, most likely sell the farm and live the rest of my life as a multimillionaire actually. Or lease all the land except the homestead 20 acres and go on vacation a lot. I dunno.

Maybe the Fed will taper? I doubt it though, they need to keep prices up or government tax income will take a dive. What with China no longer buying our treasuries, I hope enough Americans trust their government enough to take on more of its own debt.
Can't wait til the fireworks start at the next debt ceiling debate in a few more months. That ought ta be a hoot now that the reality of the ACA is here.
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if the O-man is gonna make it rain, only a foolish or nearsighted stripper dances in front of a potted Ficus.



shake that moneymaker, dont be afraid to really get in there and stick some titty glitter to Barry's face.

the harder you grind, the faster he gives up the cheddar.

i wouldnt mind getting Barry into the Champagne Room, but i suspect from previous threads he might be a little too into me.




but i do have a Heart of Gold. maybe he will try and "Save Me" $$Cha Ching!$$!!$$!!
 
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
FreedomWorks said:
Stephanie Kelton is a radical progressive way out in left field. She has no understanding of supply side economics
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Actually, she's a Post-Keynesian/Neo-Chartalist (i.e. MMT'er) economist, and supply-side economics is as much bunk as "trickle-down voodoo".
You probably believe in the Gov't Budget Constraint as being "real" :lol:
You poor, deluded soul...

Since you're on the subject, go look up Bill Mitchell, Randall Wray, Irving Fisher, Michal Kalecki, Basil Moore, Nicholas Kaldor, Paul Davidson, Warren Mosler, Hyman Minsky, Wynne Godley, Marc Lavoie, and (my favourite) Steve Keen.

Have fun!
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
Actually, she's a Post-Keynesian/Neo-Chartalist (i.e. MMT'er) economist, and supply-side economics is as much bunk as "trickle-down voodoo".
You probably believe in the Gov't Budget Constraint as being "real" :lol:
You poor, deluded soul...

Since you're on the subject, go look up Bill Mitchell, Randall Wray, Irving Fisher, Michal Kalecki, Basil Moore, Nicholas Kaldor, Paul Davidson, Warren Mosler, Hyman Minsky, Wynne Godley, Marc Lavoie, and (my favourite) Steve Keen.

Have fun!
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because, unlike any other system in existence, the more you despoil it, the better your economy becomes...

using the glorious wisdom of these brilliant thinkers, im gonna stop cleaning my bathroom.

eventually it will turn the corner, and reach a golden equilibrium, where the shit and piss just takes care of itself.
 
FreedomWorks

FreedomWorks

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
Actually, she's a Post-Keynesian/Neo-Chartalist (i.e. MMT'er) economist, and supply-side economics is as much bunk as "trickle-down voodoo".
You probably believe in the Gov't Budget Constraint as being "real" :lol:
You poor, deluded soul...

Since you're on the subject, go look up Bill Mitchell, Randall Wray, Irving Fisher, Michal Kalecki, Basil Moore, Nicholas Kaldor, Paul Davidson, Warren Mosler, Hyman Minsky, Wynne Godley, Marc Lavoie, and (my favourite) Steve Keen.

Have fun!
Click to expand...
How can it be bunk, if it's been proven to work? Your ideology about how more government control helps the economy is a recipe for disaster. People that can't even set up a website being in charge of my health care sounds like a "train wreck." -Democrat Senator Baucus

I've heard the phrase "trickle down tyranny" before, but what is with your "voodoo" crap?

[video=youtube;t-cnt6NsHK0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t-cnt6NsHK0[/video]
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
FreedomWorks said:
How can it be bunk, if it's been proven to work? You're ideology about how more government control helps the economy is a recipe for disaster. People that can't even set up a website being in charge of my health care sounds like a "train wreck." -Democrat Senator Baucus

I've heard the phrase "trickle down tyranny" before, but what is with your "voodoo" crap?

[video=youtube;t-cnt6NsHK0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=t-cnt6NsHK0[/video]
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"trickle down" and "Voodoo economics" are the catchphrases used by keyensians (no relation) to disparage the idea that letting the economy manage itself as much as possible is a TERRIBLE IDEA

government control, taxing and re-allocating economic activity, and direct control through over-regulation are the Silver Key that opens the Gate Of Dreams, to allow Yog Shotthoth, The Watcher At The Gate to awaken from his unquiet slumber so he may ravage our mortal coil with his Glorious Madness.

or, in other words, leftist economic goofball theories.
 
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
FreedomWorks said:
How can it be bunk, if it's been proven to work? Your ideology about how more government control helps the economy is a recipe for disaster.
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:lol: "proven to work"

Please, tell me more about how wonderful the Laffer hypothesis has worked over the decades since Kennedy.
 
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
In consideration of those who still dwell in a faulty paradigm of financial constraint, I figured the following paper and video might be of value.

First is Jane D'Arista's excellent examination of commodity standards and the original concept of "the Bancor".
In it she discusses why commodity standards tend to fail, BUT in her conclusions she does offer possible methods of implementing them in a plausible model.
However, it will be noted she has a stronger argument in favour of a supra-national Unit of Account which is what the video will discuss in more detail.
I would highly recommend reading this first before watching the video so one can get a good historical background of how the Bancor was originally presented back in Bretton Woods way back when, otherwise, it will make some the video's discussion more confusing (especially to willfully deaf conservatives).
BTW the PDF version is a better format to read, IMHO.

http://cje.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/4/633.full

The video is a recent presentation by Steve Keen at the Meeting of Finance Ministers of Latin America in Quito on November 29th 2013.
In it he expands on the rationale for adopting a "Bancor"-style system for the purposes of financial "stability".
Now I can imagine for those unfamiliar with the underlying premises he discusses it may seem somewhat overwhelming (I've been studying this stuff for years, so it is mostly old-hat to me), but for the rare few out there who do understand (and for those willing to make an effort), his presentation will be quite enlightening as to why this type of system will be beneficial as a preventative to crises.
The ideas that can be extrapolated from this will tie into the critiques of Globalization (cf. Ha-Joon Chang) and the monetary "diversity" concepts of Bernard Lietaer.
It will also help shed light on how "minimum guaranteed income" policies are viable due to the nature of money creation as understood in an exo/endogenous framework consistent with the theories originally postulated by Basil Moore.

Enjoy...
PS: I would recommend watching it in full-screen when he gets to the simulations in his "Minsky" software.

[video=youtube;FoLyd_Hq32Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoLyd_Hq32Q[/video]
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
In consideration of those who still dwell in a faulty paradigm of financial constraint, I figured the following paper and video might be of value.

First is Jane D'Arista's excellent examination of commodity standards and the original concept of "the Bancor".
In it she discusses why commodity standards tend to fail, BUT in her conclusions she does offer possible methods of implementing them in a plausible model.
However, it will be noted she has a stronger argument in favour of a supra-national Unit of Account which is what the video will discuss in more detail.
I would highly recommend reading this first before watching the video so one can get a good historical background of how the Bancor was originally presented back in Bretton Woods way back when, otherwise, it will make some the video's discussion more confusing (especially to willfully deaf conservatives).
BTW the PDF version is a better format to read, IMHO.

http://cje.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/4/633.full

The video is a recent presentation by Steve Keen at the Meeting of Finance Ministers of Latin America in Quito on November 29th 2013.
In it he expands on the rationale for adopting a "Bancor"-style system for the purposes of financial "stability".
Now I can imagine for those unfamiliar with the underlying premises he discusses it may seem somewhat overwhelming (I've been studying this stuff for years, so it is mostly old-hat to me), but for the rare few out there who do understand (and for those willing to make an effort), his presentation will be quite enlightening as to why this type of system will be beneficial as a preventative to crises.
The ideas that can be extrapolated from this will tie into the critiques of Globalization (cf. Ha-Joon Chang) and the monetary "diversity" concepts of Bernard Lietaer.
It will also help shed light on how "minimum guaranteed income" policies are viable due to the nature of money creation as understood in an exo/endogenous framework consistent with the theories originally postulated by Basil Moore.

Enjoy...
PS: I would recommend watching it in full-screen when he gets to the simulations in his "Minsky" software.

[video=youtube;FoLyd_Hq32Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoLyd_Hq32Q[/video]
Click to expand...



EXACTLY as useful as economists ruminations.



But far less expensive.
 
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