SSGrower
Well-Known Member
You're welcome. I can accept payment via Venmo or you can sign me up for the tester program on your spectrum snob board. LOL
If you think of it ping the thread when the updated info is available.
The new QB 648 Diablo from Horticulture Lighting Group
- Thread starter lukio
- Start date
If you think of it ping the thread when the updated info is available.
Super jealous dude! No, and unfortunately, I probably won't as HLG made an IG post about how the boards are not DIY friendly so they will likely not sell them as such again. It sucks, I waited a while to import a couple of drivers specifically for them, and was waiting quite a while for at least five of them to get in stock as well as the heat sinks. Something about people not wiring them correctly and causing issues because they are not forgiving like the others. Hopefully a duo of those "Spectrum Snob" boards will work with a 320H-C2800AB. I wonder if it's possible to order them pre-wired for a remote mount setup if reverse polarity is an issue. I should go on a boat ride.
pulpoinspace
Well-Known Member
been comparing the spectrum of the 648 and the 96 today (both 4000K + red supplement). and i was wondering if anyone knew, the whites on the 648 are 4000k 80cri correct? and then the 660nm supplementation makes it over 90 cri.
im wondering then if the whites on the 96s are 4000k 70cri? and thats why even with heavy supplemention the cri is still quite a bit lower?looks like less far red in the whites too.
starting to get really curious about these 96v3s.
648 -> 96
im wondering then if the whites on the 96s are 4000k 70cri? and thats why even with heavy supplemention the cri is still quite a bit lower?looks like less far red in the whites too.
starting to get really curious about these 96v3s.
648 -> 96
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Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Never thought about that, not sure. But @ people if you want answers:
@Stephenj37826
@Chip Green
@Rocket Soul
@Renfro
Take a look at the lab report on the 650R, it shows what the real spectrum is, maybe around 18-20% blue. I was surprised to learn that Dr. Bruce Bugby recently found that differing levels of blue up to just over 20% had no effect on yield and quality on the end product with HPS as the least blue test point. I was blown away.
"So, the choice of lamp for lighting cannabis should be based on the economics of the lights(efficiency), not on the hypothesized differences of the yields on the flowers."
Whoaaaaaaa
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
Lot of people on rollitup want to experiment with trying to get the plant to express or grow in different ways. Fair enough for him to say that choice should be based on the efficiency. But thats not the whole picture. Might be the primary consideration for commercial kw consumers.
Think HLG have gone out of their way to produce a board that hits high efficiency with the Diablo boards. Lot of other manufacturers have done similar with a high kelvin cct plus red, and we don't see people complaining about them. Can think of a few bar light manufacturers using whites plus, and asking big dollar. But everybody laps it up. I think there is a trade off for any chosen combination.
wietefras
Well-Known Member
Yet the same Bruce Bugbee earlier found that yield dropped in direct relation to a increased relative of blue. Migro also spent a video on those findings. He saw on average something like 4% less yield for 4000K compared to 2700K. In fact the actual report gives even bigger yield drops. Up to 25% loss in yield going from 10% blue to 30% blue.
In that same video where Bugbee claims that percentage of blue has no impact, he also states that blues have 15% less photosynthetic efficiency than red photons. Those two claims are clearly conflicting.
So I'm really not taking his new "blue light doesn't impact yield findings" that seriously. Especially since apart from contradicting himself, they also match no other research I have ever seen from other people.
Also, over and over we have seen that more blue gives you smaller and less compact buds. Which means lower bag appeal and more work manicuring. So I would say it not just lowers yield, but also lowers quality.
More blue is nice if you want smaller plants and, from a marketing point of view, if you want higher efficiency specs, but for a flowering light it's just not a good idea.
SSGrower
Well-Known Member
He works for an instrumentation company it is his job to encourage people to be curious enough about spectrum to buy their instrumentation. IMO he does little to advance the knowledge of growing cannabis. The reason for his popularity is because he references mj directly. MJ growers gotta get outside their head and look at other plants first to better understand the role of light imo.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Good to see you around here again, brother!
SSGrower
Well-Known Member
I did find another spot to hang where there is alot more interist in growing plants than bickering about the latest led tech. And discussions of politics are banned.
.orgSo sorry to say not really around I post in the chuckers paradise thread and a few others or pm me if ya want.
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
Scientists are all about recording and presenting data. I think the man you mention has a long history in research before apogee came into existence. There is a huge element of truth in the statement about the use of the word "cannabis" and its appendage to anything, sending some into a state of sycophantic adoration.
But research and data are the key to any advance. Our lives would be so very different without. Nothing wrong with using what works for you. Experimentation and attempting to advance is good too. I will be interested to see whatever comes out of it.
Hemp Research Underway at Utah State University
Exploring collaborations with University of Utah College of Pharmacy.
www.usu.edu
USU Extension Co-Hosts Public Hemp Seminar
The seminar will address hemp as a commercial agriculture crop in Utah and provides participants with opportunities to learn about laws, production and the industry.
www.usu.edu
Nothing wrong with just growing and sharing experience. Part of the reason forums are so popular, and people come together to share, learn and perhaps advance. Plenty of space for all.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
The Diablo works on so high light levels you may want to have the extra blue for transpiration, it opens the stomata.
Personally id do it the other way: add blue and uv (dimmable) to a balls to the floor flowering spectrum like 2700k 90cri, increase diode count until whatever insane level that matches efficiency target, and go for broke. Vegg: low whites and a bit of blue to help with bushy plants and ease transpiration while still on low intensity and maybe lacking in climate factors. Come flower: ramp up white and tweak blue to the exact point where climate and blue levels align for full transpiration and a nice praying plant stance. Its not red levels we need to adjust, theyre almost always welcome, veg/flower, its blue levels that we need a dial for in order to be able to control and adjust for different climate situations as blue can remedy transpiration problems due to cold/rh/too high CO2.
Also, white + blues means all diodes are based on blue photon pumps: they are superior on thermals to reds/660s.
Personally id do it the other way: add blue and uv (dimmable) to a balls to the floor flowering spectrum like 2700k 90cri, increase diode count until whatever insane level that matches efficiency target, and go for broke. Vegg: low whites and a bit of blue to help with bushy plants and ease transpiration while still on low intensity and maybe lacking in climate factors. Come flower: ramp up white and tweak blue to the exact point where climate and blue levels align for full transpiration and a nice praying plant stance. Its not red levels we need to adjust, theyre almost always welcome, veg/flower, its blue levels that we need a dial for in order to be able to control and adjust for different climate situations as blue can remedy transpiration problems due to cold/rh/too high CO2.
Also, white + blues means all diodes are based on blue photon pumps: they are superior on thermals to reds/660s.
end_of_the_tunnel
Well-Known Member
Seems a decent option for minimalist approach. Decent reviews on operating temps. Local sales and service for USA. I bet you would be happy.
wietefras
Well-Known Member
How so? Every led light can be very intense. Just give it more watts or add more COBs, boards or strips to your light.
Led gardner measured a PPFD matrix where he put 320W of Diablo (3 boards) in a 2'x4' at apparently 2.1umol/J real world efficacy producing 944umol/s/m2 average intensity. Yes that's a lot, but any modern led strip light could do that if you insist on using 40W per sqft or 444W per m2.
With a more conventional 260W (2 boards) per 2'x4' he arrived at a real world efficacy of 2.0umol/J and an average PPFD of 723umol/s/m2. Using 33W/sqft or 360W/m2. Still a significantly higher wattage than an current grow light needs, but the actual light on the plants was hardly extremely intense.
SSGrower
Well-Known Member
I
Not doubting the guy isn't smart, hasn't put in hard work I am saying I am not convinced by is motivations and I do not like the way he presents information. Would love to sit down and talk with him but beyond that I cant stand watching his videos.
wietefras
Well-Known Member
I think in general Bruce Bugbee does great work. He also explains things so easy that everyone can understand.
Though it started to go south when he started to do studies just so he could promote his new FR detecting Apogee sensor. Somehow it feels like he let the commercial side of things cloud his judgement.
Specifically with his latest "Far red! Far red! Far red!" and "blue light doesn't affect yield or quality" findings he seems to have pretty much lost the plot.
Why even focus on percentage of blue alone? For instance, it would also depend massively if you have 10% blue and 90% green, versus a SPD with 10% blue, 10% green and 80% red. Both have the same percentage of blue, but the outcome would not be the same. Especially in a test were he also throws FR into the mix as a fourth.
His far red claims are even more silly. They are all over the place. Between "FR photons have the same photosynthetic efficiency as other wavelengths" vs "oh no they don't really add much photosynthesis but they do encourage shadow avoidance behavior which is great" vs "shadow avoidance really isn't a good thing". Or "you really need my new sensor to measure FR instead of just 400-700 PAR" and "it's really the FR:R ratio and R:B ratio that matters" (which you can't actually measure with his sensor).
Though it started to go south when he started to do studies just so he could promote his new FR detecting Apogee sensor. Somehow it feels like he let the commercial side of things cloud his judgement.
Specifically with his latest "Far red! Far red! Far red!" and "blue light doesn't affect yield or quality" findings he seems to have pretty much lost the plot.
Why even focus on percentage of blue alone? For instance, it would also depend massively if you have 10% blue and 90% green, versus a SPD with 10% blue, 10% green and 80% red. Both have the same percentage of blue, but the outcome would not be the same. Especially in a test were he also throws FR into the mix as a fourth.
His far red claims are even more silly. They are all over the place. Between "FR photons have the same photosynthetic efficiency as other wavelengths" vs "oh no they don't really add much photosynthesis but they do encourage shadow avoidance behavior which is great" vs "shadow avoidance really isn't a good thing". Or "you really need my new sensor to measure FR instead of just 400-700 PAR" and "it's really the FR:R ratio and R:B ratio that matters" (which you can't actually measure with his sensor).
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
Bingo
The light is so intense we wanted to add just a bit more blue to push the stomata open.
Unfortunately you couldn't underdrive 2700k 90cri enough to even approach the photon efficiency of the diablo board as is. I've done extensive research on the subject. Of note though Samsung is releasing a higher efficiency 90cri soon. I have a sample reel and will be doing some testing on 3500k 90cri soon enough.