The nutrient companies are ripping us off. Let's talk about it!

Sativied said:

Hilarious... what a clever joke man... Almost as funny as "petroleum based bottles". Now that was clever, I mean you said "bottles" after all.

There are plenty of valid reasons to grow organic, but why would I want to hear your reasoning for your personal preference? We had that discussion before in which you so clearly didn't want to be enlightened at all. You've shown your intellectually dishonesty so you're delusional to think your "reasoning" has any value to me.

Click to expand...

Heh! Yes, if you want to split hairs the plastic jug is *technically* the only petroleum part of the product, but how do you think these fertilizer companies go about making Nitrogen? Better yet, what do they most commonly use to fix atmospheric Nitrogen and turn that in to a jug of ABC Super Nitrogen plant food?

st0wandgrow said:

but how do you think these fertilizer companies go about making Nitrogen?

Click to expand...

Good question, let's see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process "Fertilizer generated from ammonia produced by the Haber process is estimated to be responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population"

"Nitrogen fertilizers are created from the atmosphere through nitrogen fixation. This requires the use of hydrogen. Although oil is made from hydrogen and carbon, natural gas (methane) is by far the most common source of the hydrogen used in modern nitrogen fertilizer production."

"Are fertilizers made from oil?
One thing we keep hearing is that our food production will seriously decline when we start running out of oil because we depend on petroleum based fertilizers. Fortunately this is not true.
We may run into fertilizer production problems when oil runs out because oil is used to mine for natural sources of fertilizer and for transportation of fertilizer, but not because we need oil to make fertilizer."

"Once again fertilizer is not petroleum-based":
http://depletedcranium.com/once-again-fertilizer-is-not-petroleum-based/

So enlighten me please, how do "these fertilizer companies go about making Nitrogen" from petroleum? Dude if I'm wrong I'm wrong and while I care little about your reasons for growing organics, I'm starting to freak out a little cause one of my plants does have a fuel/diesel smell...

st0wandgrow said:

Heh! Yes, if you want to split hairs

Click to expand...

Oh sure, splitting hairs now you found out the nutes aren't petroleum based... intellectual dishonest... you're fooling yourself, I guess you don't use any of these either: http://www.ranken-energy.com/Products from Petroleum.htm

Sativied said:

Good question, let's see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process "Fertilizer generated from ammonia produced by the Haber process is estimated to be responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population"

"Nitrogen fertilizers are created from the atmosphere through nitrogen fixation. This requires the use of hydrogen. Although oil is made from hydrogen and carbon, natural gas (methane) is by far the most common source of the hydrogen used in modern nitrogen fertilizer production."

"Are fertilizers made from oil?
One thing we keep hearing is that our food production will seriously decline when we start running out of oil because we depend on petroleum based fertilizers. Fortunately this is not true.
We may run into fertilizer production problems when oil runs out because oil is used to mine for natural sources of fertilizer and for transportation of fertilizer, but not because we need oil to make fertilizer."

"Once again fertilizer is not petroleum-based":
http://depletedcranium.com/once-again-fertilizer-is-not-petroleum-based/

So enlighten me please, how do "these fertilizer companies go about making Nitrogen" from petroleum? Dude if I'm wrong I'm wrong and while I care little about your reasons for growing organics, I'm starting to freak out a little cause one of my plants does have a fuel/diesel smell...

Oh sure, splitting hairs now you found out the nutes aren't petroleum based... intellectual dishonest... you're fooling yourself, I guess you don't use any of these either: http://www.ranken-energy.com/Products from Petroleum.htm

Click to expand...

Very good. Natural gas, and coal (both fossil fuels) are used to fix atmospheric Nitrogen to make your jugs of nutrients.

So, tell me how this is a good thing. Fossil fuels are a finite resource. Wouldn't we be best served to use fossil fuels for what we actually need them for, instead of the lazy-mans approach to gardening?

The best nutrient company in the world

I'm actually very interested in the organic approach, but I haven't taken the plunge just yet because my current setup meets all of my needs, so I'm in no hurry to rock the boat.

I have only used synthetic nutrients (GH Flora line) and my flowers are much different than what I use to see at the dispensaries and still different from what I have seen going around town. I certainly don't mean different in any derogatory way, but my flowers after a 3 week cure are simply more resinous and potent and I say this coming from a guy that readily admits having a lot to learn still. I suspect people may be using too many products and then running one line of products and then using additives from another company's line while having little idea of what the interactions may be which diminishes the end result.

That's why I use the (K)eep(I)t(S)imple method these days and I find that I have much more success this way than using the latest fad product. I briefly spoke with the guy at the hydro shop who shared with me his regimen after we discussed how much of a rip off AN products are and who they're primary target buyer is - deep pocketed low information growers. When he told me all the bullshit in his regimen, my mouth about hit the floor. When I told him why I had a problem with primordial solutions' Sea Green, which is that they don't even tell you what's in it and refuse to answer e-mails about the contents of the bottle. His response was, "I just know it works man"...

Ya, man...I know, it works really well at getting money out of peoples' wallets and into the cash register. And the good fight continues on, sigh.

st0wandgrow said:

Very good. Natural gas, and coal (both fossil fuels) are used to fix atmospheric Nitrogen to make your jugs of nutrients.

So, tell me how this is a good thing. Fossil fuels are a finite resource. Wouldn't we be best served to use fossil fuels for what we actually need them for, instead of the lazy-mans approach to gardening?

Click to expand...

Food for thought:

http://www.psnh.com/RenewableEnergy/About-PSNH/Methane-Power-Plants.aspx

Methane gas is actually a huge resource we have too much of and are producing more of it every day. I actually heard of an automotive plant here in the States (BMW I think) that is completely off the grid thanks to a local farm nearby that has a methane gas pipeline running from the farm to the power station within the plant where it is converted into usable energy. The gas produced from the cow shit (I think it was) saved BMW some ungodly sum of money each year thanks to cow shit and the methane gas it produced. Damn hippies were right and the corporations were wrong. Never trust somebody that says "never trust a hippy".

It takes me about a day of collecting to get all the base fertilizer i need to last me a year. Its hard work at first but when its all mixed up I dont even have to ph adjust.I only use well water and top dress when things fade if they fade. I like a good fade at the end of flower it seems to bring out the flavors better with less chlorophyll.

Many ways to skin a cat, or grow a weed.

I tried big bud once It didnt do anything Tried canna pk 13 14 I think thats just 35 dollar water. bud candy is just sugar water so i use sugar in the raw instead. What pisses me off is I go into the garden stores and all they have for organics is a small shelf 3by 4 foot The rest of the store is full of hydro supplies. I ask why so little organics and they say no demand for it only a few people buy it.

Since I use more products than anyone on earth here is my two cents. Everything works, and nothing will kill your plant if you have an understanding of what the main ingredients in the bottle/salt/amendment does and how your plant utilizes it

Just like us, plants are what they eat, and it seems every company's food can add there little something on the end of the finished product. I shit you not I can usually tell what company a grower is using just off taste.

Dr.Pecker said:

I tried big bud once It didnt do anything Tried canna pk 13 14 I think thats just 35 dollar water. bud candy is just sugar water so i use sugar in the raw instead. What pisses me off is I go into the garden stores and all they have for organics is a small shelf 3by 4 foot The rest of the store is full of hydro supplies. I ask why so little organics and they say no demand for it only a few people buy it.

Click to expand...

Dr Pecker you are so spot on! I feel embarrassed when an organic guy comes into the shop I work at.

941mick said:

Just like us, plants are what they eat, and it seems every company's food can add there little something on the end of the finished product. I shit you not

Click to expand...

You certainly do not shit me indeed. That is one big pile of bullshit you managed to write down. Plants do not eat anything at all, they create food from raw materials. Food chain... circle of life... what... the... fuck... are.... you... on Mick???

Everytime I go into one of those stores they never have everything im looking for. I always have to drive about 100miles to get everything. I spend like 150 bucks on just organic powdered meals, guano, castings and minerals. I basically clean them out of certain products and grab about 20 bags of roots organic original and say see you next year. the cowshit is free! Its still good to beef things up though.

I can tell if you use certain things by smoking it.

Sativied said:

You certainly do not shit me indeed. That is one big pile of bullshit you managed to write down. Plants do not eat anything at all, they create food from raw materials. Food chain... circle of life... what... the... fuck... are.... you... on Mick???

Click to expand...

shit, all this time I should have been feeding my plants doughnuts and big mac's to make them fat.

Why dont the grow shops carry dairy doo or composted manure. I would rather buy it than shovel it. I can shovel it for free but its messy and I have to compost it a bit.

Paclo is the easiest thing to taste and feel. Immediate shitty taste, burnt throat and headache

Sativied said:

You certainly do not shit me indeed. That is one big pile of bullshit you managed to write down. Plants do not eat anything at all, they create food from raw materials. Food chain... circle of life... what... the... fuck... are.... you... on Mick???

Click to expand...

How often are you smoking other people's flower? I have guys on the regular giving me bud, at least 2-3 a week. You wont believe the amount oof guys who just give weed away to people in shops. After a while you really can tell.

I just posted the magic school bus video on plants so i understand how plants eat

chuck estevez said:

shit, all this time I should have been feeding my plants doughnuts and big mac's to make them fat.

Click to expand...

I feed my plants 19 year old blonde strippers, I like to be stinky sticky stupid fucked after I smoke

Nutrient dealers do not rip you off.
We are choosing to pay for the luxary of refusing to study.
You are encouraging this rape by paying them to do it.

Imagine them in a court of law stating "He wanted it"

941mick said:

How often are you smoking other people's flower?

Click to expand...

Over the past decades? In a country with coffeeshops? I agree... after a while you can tell. Yet I don't need to use that subjective perception as an argument to refute your nonsense as that simply goes against everything a plant is.

941mick said:

I just posted the magic school bus video on plants so i understand how plants eat

Click to expand...

You must have me confused with some ahole who thinks your ignorance is funny. Not the case, I think it's sad. And I'm not even talking about you using literally 20 bottles... but the fact it's all very basic stuff you can easily learn - zero sarcasm implied.