The Obama plan vs. the Ryan plan

JoSixChip said:

So the TEA Party platform is for a cast system? You mean like one were there is one medical system for the ruling class and an inferior one for the peons that pay the bills? Or one in which all of us lessor citizens are forced to participate in a ponzi scheme retirement plan while the ruling class gets a basically free golden retirement plan? Or where the ruling class confiscates the rewards of hard working citizens and trickles it down to the poor to buy votes for the ruling class? Or perhaps you mean the system the ruling class has setup that punishes success and hard work and rewards failure and bad decisions. Or that they fight tooth and nail for a system where all citizens are equal, as long as some citizens are more equal then others. Wait, what party were we talking about?

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Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:

just admitt it, you're a social darwinist, you give up the one thing that is special about the human condition.

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UncleBuck said:

who are you talking to?

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VIDEO: At Town Hall, Paul Ryan Booed And Heckled For Supporting Corporate Tax Cuts

As ThinkProgress has been reporting, all over the country a Main Street Movement of ordinary Americans is fight back against right-wing attacks on their basic services and public investment. In recent days, this movement has been focused on conservative legislators who voted for the GOP budget plan that would effectively end Medicare.
Last night, during a town hall meeting posted on YouTube, in Kenosha, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), the architect of the GOP plan to end Medicare, came face-to-face with this movement once again. At one point during the meeting, a man who identified himself as a long-time resident outraged about big corporations outsourcing jobs asked why Ryan doesn’t want to tax these companies, getting huge applause from the audience.
Ryan responded by saying that first we should deal with some tax shelters, and the crowd began to shout “Do it first!” Then Ryan started to say that we’re taxing corporations too much, which set off a spree of booing and shouts of “Liar!” Ryan responded by saying that those who are yelling should leave:

CONSTITUENT: I’ve been around this area for quite a long time but once all the factories moved out and there’s no work for our grandchildren or children to get jobs. And if they did have have jobs and those factories were open if you applied a tariff on companies that left, they would come back, or our government could take the money they have and reinvest in the factories that are still here and get apprenticeship programs for people like electricians, pipefitters, plumbers, sheet metal men and put it back to work. You would have the money you need to balance all that. [referring to the budget] (applause from the audience)
RYAN: I agree with the first — I totally agree with that sentiment. First of all the tax system we have is a corrupt system it doesn’t work. It benefits a handful of people and businesses at the expense of everybody else. What I would say is let’s get rid of the tax shelters that let’s some pay get away with paying no taxes –
CONSTITUENT: Do it first! (cheers from audience)
RYAN: Come on, it’s not worth the peanut gallery. Let’s clean up the tax code and lower our tax rates. The reason why I say, the president’s commission said the same thing, we’re taxing our businesses our employers, a lot more than our competitors are taxing theirs –
(Audience boos, hisses)
CONSTITUENT: LIAR!
CONSTITUENT: He’s lying!
RYAN: If you’re yelling I just want to ask you to leave. It’s just not polite.
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JoSixChip said:

You ignorant uninformed POS. I served 4 years in the USAF. My three siblings and myself grew up dirt poor, our parents had too much self respect to take handouts from the government or anyone else. We learned the value of hard work and three of us put our selves through collage, I myself did not graduate until I was 40. But all four of us worked our way to a decent living. We take pride in our accomplishments, something a whole generation in this country has been denied. And it is people like you that keep the poor down by giving them just enough to survive with no reason to improve their standing in life. They then pass that on to their children, and 99% of them end up just like their parents. The good news for you is they will always vote to take more money from someone else, meaning more liberal voters, leading to more poor. It's a vicious cycle, but it is obviously something you and your liberal buddies on this forum and in this country clearly prefer.

And ya, just because you served does not entitle you to lifetime of privilege, unless you were disabled. Millions upon millions of Americans have served without expecting to be carried the rest of their lives. What make you think your so special? You don't contribute, you shouldn't be allowed to vote, PERIOD. And yes that include the elderly, the retarded, the homeless, the illegal aliens and anybody else that isn't shouldering their share of the load.

Oh, and I am an active member of the TEA Party.

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mame said:

Obama finished his speech a bit ago about his proposal to cut $4 trillion over the next 10 years. Ryan, who also released his plan recently, has proposed $4.4 trillion.

Obama's plan includes dropping earners making more than 250k off of the bush tax cuts, closing loopholes and lowering the tax rate, cuts ~600 billion from the discretionary budget, and seeks to control medicare costs. There are plenty more details, I'll link to them once I find the complete plan (.pdf).

Ryan's plan, found here, cuts taxes on the wealthy by ~3 trillion, cuts discretionary spending by about 1.6 trillion, privatizes Medicare via a voucher system, makes the bush tax cuts permanent, closes loopholes and drops rates, among other things...

I have plenty of beef about Ryan's plan including that they cut ~3 trillion total spending (discretionary and medicare cuts) and literally hand that money to the top earners in cuts. They claim this will actually amount to net increase in revenue because they'd be "broadening the base" but to do this - we'd have to be on the wrong side of the Laffer curve (hint: up is up, down is down at current rates).

Almost all of the proposed savings in medicare come via shifting the costs from ~70% government contribution to ~30%. Doing nothing to control costs - instead pushing them onto medicare receipiants.

Besides that, Ryan offers no cuts in military spending. He also leaves subsidies for big oil in place while removing those for clean energy like solar and wind.

thoughts?

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Serapis said:

And to the person's that believe government creates nothing, it only consumes.... have you ever stopped to think? I mean really, universities, highways, airports, national security, railroads, the Internet, safe food and water and air, and on and on and on.... yeah, we need less of those things...

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canndo said:

Let us also consider that our Consitution is not a corporate charter, America is not a business. What does Government create? It produces order, an orderly society, justice, safety, predictabililty and peace.

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NoDrama said:

Wow you think government is a god who can give you those things, it isn't going to give you anything, you are going to give to it. You can have all of those things without government. More government does not mean better, it means worse. Government was meant to serve the people, the design was to keep government small and unobtrusive.

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londonfog said:

Oh really ...??? my wife and I together make that and believe you me we do not pay over 50% of our income to government ...you people will say anything and think its true....I guess thats just like Planned Parenthood work involves 90% doing abortions...keep to the facts

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