The Official Canna Coco & Nutrients Thread

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
Coco depends on a very crucial balance of cations to establish a very high CEC. It is the result of Coconuts growing in salt water and having a natural high capacity for salts.

What I find with coco is that after transplanting from a smaller planter to a much larger one, like from 1 gallon to 3 gallons, it takes time for the roots to fill out the new space. Yet, we water and feed the entire coco mass. So 2/3 of the media then builds up salts over the weeks it takes for the roots to reach the edges of the new large planter. Once the roots do reach this new, super salt saturated area, plants that are sensitive to high EC will begin to lock out elements and burn up.

It is important to be careful not to over feed or over water after a transplant to keep those salts from accumulating. For many people, post transplant is an excellent time to begin to push your plants to their full potential, so it really is a balance that must be achieved.

Here's what I'm doing:
After transplant feed with 600ml to 1000ml of normal strength solution directly to root mass beneath main stalk in the AM after lights on.
In the late afternoon I pH balance 1000ml to 2000ml clean water and add that to the area around the central root mass to the point of run off.

This way the plant still gets all the food it really needs, you never completely wash out the buffer because you replace it every morning, and the salts don't build up around the edges. As the root mass grows I begin to feed a larger and larger area until I'm alternating 4 or 5 feedings with a single watering every week.

If you do need to flush, I suggest flushing about 3 weeks after transplant especially if that coincides with about the time you will begin flowering. Test your run off to see if it is within an acceptable range before doing anything. Starting with a good fresh buffer at the beginning of flowering will set you up for success over the next 8 to 10 weeks.

Also, despite contrary advice, my personal experience with flushing salt laden coco is that 2 times the gallons of fresh water to coco does not completely wash out the buffer. If anything, I'd say it helps establish it at a healthy level. Rebuilding the buffer after flushing is also extremely easy. The coco is already wet, and you can run through nutrients at normal strength now that the coco i clean. Soilless is awesome like that.

Pre-Flush (11-3)
IMG_2412.jpg

Post-Flush (11-6)
IMG_2427.jpg

Flushed on Wednesday. I finally get to feed again tomorrow.
 

PUKKA BUD

Well-Known Member
i herd canna coco's grown in fresh water snow is the Botanicare coco grown in salt water, im thinkin the cannas prepaired better so maybe you dont hit those problems
 

PUKKA BUD

Well-Known Member
Sup guys first time grower here! just bought some Canna A+B, cal-mag, rhizotonic, cannazym, canna boost, and PK 13-14..

Does anyone know where I can find a rough schedule that I should follow? Something with the proportions I need to be feeding the plants, with what, and when.. This is my first grow so I don't really know what i'm doing and I don't want to butcher my plant :(

Thanks for any comments or tips
check this out its off the canna website it should help you bud

http://www.canna-uk.com/growguide

and for the cal-mag are you usin tap water? you may need it you may not depends whats in ur water allready
 

PUKKA BUD

Well-Known Member
cool, should i use the light feeding or normal feeding?
hey

id go with the light feeding an like half what it says when you start an build up to the full amount it says but just use it as a rough gide an you should be ok an on your 2nd grow you should have it figerd

lates
 

nas2007

Well-Known Member
hey jberry hows it going mate? had a quik Q.
i know i soposed to mix the coco a and b sepretly in the water. i accidently mix a and b toghter in the water and then just added the rhiz and cannazym like a usualy do and i left it to stand now for a few hours, now what should i do trow away the mix i made now? or will it be okey? its just that its 11l of water and it will be waste of nutes if a throw it away, but im willing to do that if its going to affect my plants. so any help will be most apreciated!
 

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
Canna A and B are highly reactive with each other, so if you actually mixed the A solution with the B solution before adding it to the water I'd toss it to be safe.

But (and I cannot be certain what you wrote) if you did just add A and B to the reservoir together then that should be fine. You don't need to mix up a batch of A, and a batch of B. You're supposed to mix them together by adding A to your water and then B. So if that is what you did then the solution is cool and you can use it.

Maybe someone else will understand what you're trying to say.
 

CornHarvest

Active Member
ok guys guess i'll chime in. little background i'm straight canna coco, a,b,r,c,pk,and boost with a couple additives here and there. all my girls are in 2 gallon pots, temp never leaves the 70's, been doing this about a year, buried in books (im in a place where it is difficult to find people who truly know their shit), there a couple stores here, so i can pretty much get anything, but as far as the grow shop workers, they are generally the most informed people i talk to, and I usually end up tripping them up when i get into to much of the science. very frustrating. this specific thread has been the most condensed valuable information for some of the questions ive had, so seems like the only place i can possibly get some answers, as some of you are around the same place as me, and those of you who are further along your selfless guideance is very much appreciated, not just by the 847 posts, but the now 50,000+ views this thread has recently eclipsed. So I have some very specific questions anyone with any similar concerns/input/answers please share your own pearls of wisdom.
in no particular order....

1) BOOST. There has been a lot of 'boost-bashing' throughout this thread. So much so, and in such a convincing manner, that I am pretty much sold on the idea that it is little more than "sugar-water"(-jberry). But with all of the boost bashing, there is almost always a 'disclaimer' in the form of "I know people who swear it works". These people are peculiarly absent from this thread. In fact if you read every single post in here, you wont find a single one promoting the idea that boost is worth it. (In terms of cost-effectiveness not whether it is good or not) there is no doubt that boost helps the plant, the question we all have is "can my 500 bucks be spent better on other additives/nutes?" I want to hear from ANYONE of the invisible masses of people who believe boost IS a cost-effective benefit to their garden...and why?

2) GREAT WHITE. Just recently started using, so the full effectiveness hasnt cycled through the room yet. However its effect was immediate, creating obvious deficiencies which led to some fine tuning of my Ph levels. I'm convinced on this product, my question is whether there is a difference in effectiveness between application methods. I have been injecting the diluted solution straight into the root zone, this can be tedious, is it just as effective to just dump it in my normal reservoir and apply with regular my nutrients? (btw I have never in my life seen a more effective product with such a pathetic website, cmon)

3)BLOOMBASTIC. Everyone I know uses this stuff, so I use it, but no one around me has the open-mindedness to compare other options. There isnt a whole lot of info in here about 'bastic, im curious if anyone else out there has used/compared. Ive started up with some diff'nt combos involving snow storm ultra, gravity, pk13/14 at different "sweet spots"...etc (the people around me that swear by bloombastic are the same ones that taught me to read the canna schedule wrong) So im interested in hearing the echoes outside my little circle. Also, does the fact that it is clay-based affect the ability to re-use the coir? Bloombastic seems to be an all-in-one booster, accelerator, and hardener, would I be better off finding a balance of nutrients that perform these tasks separately?

I think thats all Ive got for now, (had more but can't recall at the moment) thanks in advance for any input, -corn out
 

stelthy

Well-Known Member
I really like canna's stuff how often should I water my seedlings with canna Terra vega in a 4 litre pot with seedlings and potting soil with a bit of Perlite. I've used Canna's hydro range with my DWC setup, but have not once ever grown in soil, so in that light I am a novice lol :) Please reply asap cheers - STELTHY :leaf:
 

PUKKA BUD

Well-Known Member
hey

Ended up gettin some seeds because my cuttings guy keeps messin me about!

so ive got a few Qs

ive just checked on my seeds an they have cracked so ready to transplant soon ive got some 4x4" square peat pots whitch im goin to use filled we canna coco pro.

So ive had some tap water standin for bout 36Hour PH 7.6, what should i ph down to? or is 7.6 ok for seedlings?, i know you ph down to 5.6-6.2 when growin in coco should i go for 5.8?

also should i add a weak dose off A&B or rhiz or both i know the rhiz is for the roots so it should help but will it kill off my seeds if i add to early i was thinkin wate till its sprouted out of the coco an has its 2 leaves 1st.........but then that brings me to... your not ment to water coco with just water or you may wash away the buffers does this apply with tap water an will it affect me waterin my seedlings in the 4" pots....do i need to add or am i allrite with jus tap water for now?

so once ive got the above figerd:

should i soak the coco pro 1st before transplantin my seed,

i know how to transplant in soil is it the same with coco? u put seedling root up in a 1/2" - 3/4" hole an carefully cover is that right for coco or is there another method?

and finally will i be allright puttin my just transplanted seedlings under my 600w dual spectrum bulb or will it fry them?.....ive got a air cooled reflector an when the light is runnin theres hardly any heat from it you can touch the glass an its like semi warm an i can get it bout 8" from plants so would i be ok havin it like 12-16" away from my seedling?

and if the answers yes it will fry them,..... then im goin to have to sort another light out quick cos the 600w is all i got,..... and will my seedlings be ok till tomorrow before i transplant so ive got time to get sorted, the root has just cracked out a little about 2mm?

Sorry to go on abit but this is the 1st time ive grown from seed an my 1st time in coco(other grows NFT) so i need all the help i can get?

so please get in touch guys cheers
 

PUKKA BUD

Well-Known Member
I really like canna's stuff how often should I water my seedlings with canna Terra vega in a 4 litre pot with seedlings and potting soil with a bit of Perlite. I've used Canna's hydro range with my DWC setup, but have not once ever grown in soil, so in that light I am a novice lol :) Please reply asap cheers - STELTHY :leaf:
hey stelthy

im not right sure bud i know with coco you water when the the pots have lost half there wate in water (lift your pots) an you water till you get run off but im not sure its the same for soil i think you might be better askin on another soil growin thread or wate till some 1 on here replys to you mate

peace
 

PUKKA BUD

Well-Known Member
hey

Ended up gettin some seeds because my cuttings guy keeps messin me about!

so ive got a few Qs

ive just checked on my seeds an they have cracked so ready to transplant soon ive got some 4x4" square peat pots whitch im goin to use filled we canna coco pro.

So ive had some tap water standin for bout 36Hour PH 7.6, what should i ph down to? or is 7.6 ok for seedlings?, i know you ph down to 5.6-6.2 when growin in coco should i go for 5.8?

also should i add a weak dose off A&B or rhiz or both i know the rhiz is for the roots so it should help but will it kill off my seeds if i add to early i was thinkin wate till its sprouted out of the coco an has its 2 leaves 1st.........but then that brings me to... your not ment to water coco with just water or you may wash away the buffers does this apply with tap water an will it affect me waterin my seedlings in the 4" pots....do i need to add or am i allrite with jus tap water for now?

so once ive got the above figerd:

should i soak the coco pro 1st before transplantin my seed,

i know how to transplant in soil is it the same with coco? u put seedling root up in a 1/2" - 3/4" hole an carefully cover is that right for coco or is there another method?

and finally will i be allright puttin my just transplanted seedlings under my 600w dual spectrum bulb or will it fry them?.....ive got a air cooled reflector an when the light is runnin theres hardly any heat from it you can touch the glass an its like semi warm an i can get it bout 8" from plants so would i be ok havin it like 12-16" away from my seedling?

and if the answers yes it will fry them,..... then im goin to have to sort another light out quick cos the 600w is all i got,..... and will my seedlings be ok till tomorrow before i transplant so ive got time to get sorted, the root has just cracked out a little about 2mm?

Sorry to go on abit but this is the 1st time ive grown from seed an my 1st time in coco(other grows NFT) so i need all the help i can get?

so please get in touch guys cheers
 

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
hey

Ended up gettin some seeds because my cuttings guy keeps messin me about!

so ive got a few Qs

ive just checked on my seeds an they have cracked so ready to transplant soon ive got some 4x4" square peat pots whitch im goin to use filled we canna coco pro.

So ive had some tap water standin for bout 36Hour PH 7.6, what should i ph down to? or is 7.6 ok for seedlings?, i know you ph down to 5.6-6.2 when growin in coco should i go for 5.8?

also should i add a weak dose off A&B or rhiz or both i know the rhiz is for the roots so it should help but will it kill off my seeds if i add to early i was thinkin wate till its sprouted out of the coco an has its 2 leaves 1st.........but then that brings me to... your not ment to water coco with just water or you may wash away the buffers does this apply with tap water an will it affect me waterin my seedlings in the 4" pots....do i need to add or am i allrite with jus tap water for now?

so once ive got the above figerd:

should i soak the coco pro 1st before transplantin my seed,

i know how to transplant in soil is it the same with coco? u put seedling root up in a 1/2" - 3/4" hole an carefully cover is that right for coco or is there another method?

and finally will i be allright puttin my just transplanted seedlings under my 600w dual spectrum bulb or will it fry them?.....ive got a air cooled reflector an when the light is runnin theres hardly any heat from it you can touch the glass an its like semi warm an i can get it bout 8" from plants so would i be ok havin it like 12-16" away from my seedling?

and if the answers yes it will fry them,..... then im goin to have to sort another light out quick cos the 600w is all i got,..... and will my seedlings be ok till tomorrow before i transplant so ive got time to get sorted, the root has just cracked out a little about 2mm?

Sorry to go on abit but this is the 1st time ive grown from seed an my 1st time in coco(other grows NFT) so i need all the help i can get?

so please get in touch guys cheers
Hey Pukka! Good call on the seeds. Seems like a pretty common occurrence of people getting either bugs or mold from bad cloners, and doing it yourself is a great idea.

I'm not sure about the transplanting of a tap root. I've never needed to use some funky ass method like paper towels. I just drop my seeds in the coco and then the sprout about 3 days later. Pretty much a no brainer, and you've made this more difficult than it needs to be. Just be EXTREMELY careful handling the tap roots and transplant them like you would with soil.

And yes, Saturate the coco before hand.

I find new coco to have a pretty gnarly pH buffer, my run off will usually be in the sixes even when adding a 5.5 pH solution. I know many growers, like myself, who run slightly more acidic early on and then dial the pH up as the grow goes. Starting around 5.5 or so is fine, and the working slowly up to 5.8.

The Rhizotonic is pretty Alkaline, so be careful of the stuff because it can raise your pH quite a bit. I think it's a really great product though and totally encourage you using it right from the beginning. I'm running about 15ml per gallon right now on my own seedlings.

I did try adding a little food to my Canna Coco this time around and it didn't work as well as it did in the past when I was using Botanicare CocoGro. I think the Canna Coco is pre-charged, so you'll be fine for a little while without any A+B. My idea with Canna Coco (now) is to wait until the second leaf set is established before running ~2ml per gallon of A+B. Then working up from there as time goes.

Regarding the lighting... You can use it, but you'll need to keep it pretty far away from the seedlings, which might stretch them out at first. It's also a pretty gluttonous usage of power. My suggestion to you is to get some CFL bulbs and clamp light reflectors for the first 2 weeks or so of their lives. Once they've established a root system and have a little canopy coverage then you can start working in the 600w. That's what I'd do at least.

IMG_2316.jpg
 

nas2007

Well-Known Member
plant problem. ok im getting some kind of rust on my plant leaves. the problem is only at the tops of the plant. the problem started soon as i gave her, her first doze of pk 13/14 at 0.5ml per Liter. im using canna coco as soil, well this is how my mix was. 3.0ml of coco A&B, 2ml rhizotonic, 1ml cannazym and 0.5ml pk13/14 and 3 days later i seen all the rust on the leaves. at my next doze i wanted to put the pk at 1ml and the a and b at 2.5ml. but im not 100% its the pk that coused this problem but thats the only thing i did new and every thing was fine before that, here is a pic of the rust looking stuff on the leaves and bare in mind the problem is only at the tops of the plant, the bottem is fine its just started at the top
.074.jpg
 

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
I've read that immobile elements are usually the cause of problems like this at the top of the plant. Mobile element deficiency usually appears in the middle and lower leaves as the plant cannibalizes itself.

Among immobile nutrients that could cause this problem I'd think Calcium. This problem is pretty severe though, so I'd need to know what your run-off ppms were before really diagnosing.

With high Potassium nutrients, like PK 13/14, the uptake of Calcium and Magnesium can be impacted because they share similar chemical valences. K+1 competes with Ca+2 and Mg+2 for uptake. Having the right balance is very important when using the PK booster from Canna. When done right the results are amazing... but it comes with risk.

Calcium isn't usually in high demand during flowering though. So I'm pretty hesitant about saying that... but aside from having too high an EC/PPM that's the only thing that came to mind. Maybe someone brighter than I can shine some light on this situation.
 

PUKKA BUD

Well-Known Member
hey snow thanks for the quick responce

ive just transplanted them to the coco watered at ph 5.7 just water, i figerd i was goin to use just water this 1st feed then start with the rhiz maybe 2nd or 3rd. and ive stuck them in my room goin to have to run them with the 600w tonight an sort out some cfls tommorw

im goin to put some pic on of my set up an my progress the seedlings are barneys G13 haze

cheers bud
 

dragunn

Member
i wish i found this thread before i started.great info.

do you check the ph after you add cal mag?

how much bushmaster do you use? i want to control a few stretchers in veg.

how much molases,boost and bud candy can i give every watering? using 5 mil of molases and 15 mil of boost per gallon in ffof now.using 5 mil per gallon of bud candy and plain water every 3rd watering.trying to get the same results in coco.may be over kill but the buds looked like there dipped in sugar.

and my biggest mistake? im using canna cogr a @ b in canna coco soil.can i still use it? or will i mess up the plants?
 

CornHarvest

Active Member
ok guys guess i'll chime in. little background i'm straight canna coco, a,b,r,c,pk,and boost with a couple additives here and there. all my girls are in 2 gallon pots, temp never leaves the 70's, been doing this about a year, buried in books (im in a place where it is difficult to find people who truly know their shit), there a couple stores here, so i can pretty much get anything, but as far as the grow shop workers, they are generally the most informed people i talk to, and I usually end up tripping them up when i get into to much of the science. very frustrating. this specific thread has been the most condensed valuable information for some of the questions ive had, so seems like the only place i can possibly get some answers, as some of you are around the same place as me, and those of you who are further along your selfless guideance is very much appreciated, not just by the 847 posts, but the now 50,000+ views this thread has recently eclipsed. So I have some very specific questions anyone with any similar concerns/input/answers please share your own pearls of wisdom.
in no particular order....

1) BOOST. There has been a lot of 'boost-bashing' throughout this thread. So much so, and in such a convincing manner, that I am pretty much sold on the idea that it is little more than "sugar-water"(-jberry). But with all of the boost bashing, there is almost always a 'disclaimer' in the form of "I know people who swear it works". These people are peculiarly absent from this thread. In fact if you read every single post in here, you wont find a single one promoting the idea that boost is worth it. (In terms of cost-effectiveness not whether it is good or not) there is no doubt that boost helps the plant, the question we all have is "can my 500 bucks be spent better on other additives/nutes?" I want to hear from ANYONE of the invisible masses of people who believe boost IS a cost-effective benefit to their garden...and why?

2) GREAT WHITE. Just recently started using, so the full effectiveness hasnt cycled through the room yet. However its effect was immediate, creating obvious deficiencies which led to some fine tuning of my Ph levels. I'm convinced on this product, my question is whether there is a difference in effectiveness between application methods. I have been injecting the diluted solution straight into the root zone, this can be tedious, is it just as effective to just dump it in my normal reservoir and apply with regular my nutrients? (btw I have never in my life seen a more effective product with such a pathetic website, cmon)

3)BLOOMBASTIC. Everyone I know uses this stuff, so I use it, but no one around me has the open-mindedness to compare other options. There isnt a whole lot of info in here about 'bastic, im curious if anyone else out there has used/compared. Ive started up with some diff'nt combos involving snow storm ultra, gravity, pk13/14 at different "sweet spots"...etc (the people around me that swear by bloombastic are the same ones that taught me to read the canna schedule wrong) So im interested in hearing the echoes outside my little circle. Also, does the fact that it is clay-based affect the ability to re-use the coir? Bloombastic seems to be an all-in-one booster, accelerator, and hardener, would I be better off finding a balance of nutrients that perform these tasks separately?

I think thats all Ive got for now, (had more but can't recall at the moment) thanks in advance for any input, -corn out
Addendum: I have also just started foolin around with BUD BLOOD/BUD IGNITOR, what I want to do is add it in with my nutes one week before they switch to the 12/12 cycle. Still all about keepin the canna lineup, just fine-tuning, ive only read through this twice, but i dont think this product has been mentioned, if anyone has any experience with bud blood or the 3 spices listed above I would love to hear any feedback/advice -thx corn out
 
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