The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
bill gates, steve jobs, t boone pickens, matthew simmons, or howabout the entire saudi royal family?
The "OFFICIAL" cast your VOTE on PROP 19 thread
- Thread starter fdd2blk
- Start date
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
George Soros, The Rockefellers,
The Ruiner
Well-Known Member
does he have 10? probably not on the books....
medicineman
New Member
hoMEGROWengurl
Active Member
well i have a lawyer that says most of that info is correct....are you a lawyer...and also when i have bought samples from the clubs in cali, they themselfs said it is wise to keep the receit. so if you want the gov taking freedoms we all ready have away then vote yes!
hoMEGROWengurl
Active Member
i will be watching this thread more close. thank you all......vote know
Teeaytchsee
Active Member
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/6601631-full-text-of-california-prop-19-which-would-legalize-marijuana
the full text document of prop 19 cleaned up from its initial pdf form. agree with it or not i believe any prohibition is wrong. it breeds black markets and encourages youths to be fascinated by its taboo nature. that said i very much believe prop 19 is a step in the right direction.
sure its not perfect and we may never agree on the wording or its limitations, but at this point its a step towards ending the costly and irresponsible prohibition. 1 ripple in the pond. its drawn alot of attention nationwide and California has a chance to set a trend that can be used as a stepping stone towards nationwide decriminalization, re-sectioning, and legalization. things can change, but we have to be progressive.
look at the trend. step 1: California legalizes medical mj. step 2: 14 states follow suit and more and more are reforming each year. its never going to be instant change, but it most certainly is a start. step 3: California legalizes and controls cannabis. they will be watched veeeeeery closely and scrutinized at every turn. when crime rates fall and state funding rises you'll see a new nationwide trend for legalization and control. once established it can be amended or new reforms enacted (eg larger grow spaces, lowered legal age to 18, personal limits abolished, etc). step 4: re-classification federally. it already does not fall into the 3 required category's to be schedule 1 so we the people need to help push that change and show that we support reform of this harmless medicine. step 5: nationwide decriminalization/legalization freeing us up to enjoy the spliff or bong rips as we need it. i don't like to drink because i hate being out of control of my senses and emotions. i want to be able to smoke a joint after work or whenever without fear or undue paranoia. i'm not sick so i don't need it as medication, but it helps me a great deal in my day to day grind.
amendments to bills and legislation is made all the time, thinking you will be stuck with 1 version of the wording for all of eternity is simply foolish.
stop expecting so much so quickly. roll with the changes and keep progressing forward. help our innocent personal users stop fearing for their livelihoods and free up our jails for violent offenders and true criminals. stop buying into fear mongering and start educating yourselves and others. we've all got fears of the unknown and this will be a major change to society and does go against social norms, but should fear keep us from becoming better and freer people?
hell then again...
OPINIONS ARE LIKE ASSHOLES. EVERYONE HAS 1 AND THEY ALL STINK.
the full text document of prop 19 cleaned up from its initial pdf form. agree with it or not i believe any prohibition is wrong. it breeds black markets and encourages youths to be fascinated by its taboo nature. that said i very much believe prop 19 is a step in the right direction.
sure its not perfect and we may never agree on the wording or its limitations, but at this point its a step towards ending the costly and irresponsible prohibition. 1 ripple in the pond. its drawn alot of attention nationwide and California has a chance to set a trend that can be used as a stepping stone towards nationwide decriminalization, re-sectioning, and legalization. things can change, but we have to be progressive.
look at the trend. step 1: California legalizes medical mj. step 2: 14 states follow suit and more and more are reforming each year. its never going to be instant change, but it most certainly is a start. step 3: California legalizes and controls cannabis. they will be watched veeeeeery closely and scrutinized at every turn. when crime rates fall and state funding rises you'll see a new nationwide trend for legalization and control. once established it can be amended or new reforms enacted (eg larger grow spaces, lowered legal age to 18, personal limits abolished, etc). step 4: re-classification federally. it already does not fall into the 3 required category's to be schedule 1 so we the people need to help push that change and show that we support reform of this harmless medicine. step 5: nationwide decriminalization/legalization freeing us up to enjoy the spliff or bong rips as we need it. i don't like to drink because i hate being out of control of my senses and emotions. i want to be able to smoke a joint after work or whenever without fear or undue paranoia. i'm not sick so i don't need it as medication, but it helps me a great deal in my day to day grind.
amendments to bills and legislation is made all the time, thinking you will be stuck with 1 version of the wording for all of eternity is simply foolish.
stop expecting so much so quickly. roll with the changes and keep progressing forward. help our innocent personal users stop fearing for their livelihoods and free up our jails for violent offenders and true criminals. stop buying into fear mongering and start educating yourselves and others. we've all got fears of the unknown and this will be a major change to society and does go against social norms, but should fear keep us from becoming better and freer people?
hell then again...
OPINIONS ARE LIKE ASSHOLES. EVERYONE HAS 1 AND THEY ALL STINK.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
Like the scumbags who smoke around their families...or share with 20 year olds...or can't calculate the square footage of their odd shaped closet...those people are a threat to society! and should not be allowed to walk the streets...it's like pork added to federal war funding...only this is not a bridge to nowhere, but a bridge to prison.
Enacting flawed ballot initiatives is not a step forward for other states, it sets precedence and is very difficult to change in California once the voters have their say.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
In California, a voter enacted initiative can only be changed by a vote of the people...which needs to get on the ballot, which is done by petition...which costs a million+ which is how Prop 19 made it on the ballot...Richard Lee paid a private company which specializes in gathering signatures for ballot initiatives.
The Cali supreme court overturned SB 420 because of this!!! The State Senate has no right to over rule the will of the voter...So if this was legislated rather than a ballot initiative, than yes it could be amended...easily
It was the careful and thoughtful wording of prop 215 which did not set limits and set the bar high enough for other states to enact MMJ laws, though most are, of course, more restrictive than Cali.
Teeaytchsee
Active Member
Like the scumbags who smoke around their families...or share with 20 year olds...or can't calculate the square footage of their odd shaped closet...those people are a threat to society! and should not be allowed to walk the streets...it's like pork added to federal war funding...only this is not a bridge to nowhere, but a bridge to prison.
Enacting flawed ballot initiatives is not a step forward for other states, it sets precedence and is very difficult to change in California once the voters have their say.
the fact remains, whether you agree with the wording or choose to translate it your own way, that this will force a change that is long overdue. your snarky responses are opinion and misinterpretation and have no place in any kind of debate. that's the fear mongering we need to steer clear of. don't share with 20 yr olds or younger... why is this a hangup? you don't buy beer for every 18-20 yr old now do you? that same standard would apply. this will also bring alot of much needed money to the states coffers, help alleviate the spreading war in Mexico (in part), and will allow people to have as much as they can grow in the given space (5x5). ill take being able to grow in a 5x5 space over not being able to grow at all any day of the week. that 1 ounce limit is an on hand it does not limit the amount you can grow in the 5x5 space. it will make no changes to 215 as stated in the bill itself.
even "flawed" it will most certainly set an example to the rest of this country, Mexico, and Canada. it becomes a baseline or in psychological terms it becomes the expiriment to other states/country's controls. at first there will most certainly be problems, but as the problems comes so will solutions. its not a quick process.
http://www.cannabisnews.com/
my favorite news site. up to date information. share you mistranslations and see if others don't interpret them differently. the way YOU see it isn't necessarily the right way.
as far as changing legislation goes sure there will always be red tape to cut through, but you don't need millions of dollars to gather the signatures needed it just helps a great deal. all you've got is complaints, but i see 0 good reasons the current legislation is better in any way. again... this minor change is far greater than none at all. save your condescension for your dinner table. your arrogance is astounding. have a conversation or a debate, don't make things personal.
if you don't agree with the current bill to move forward and have better ideas draft the document and get the chain of rhetoric events started. don't just sit there and complain cause it has limitations.
or you can always wait till 2012 and hope we get lucky. naw... me id rather see change and effects. id rather see the social stigma and unfounded judgments of recreational users dashed to smithereens. wait and see, hope and pray, complain but do nothing... these things are why we as a country have been on the down-slope for the past 30+ years. change has to start somewhere and i say bravo to California for taking the first step towards the end of the abomination known as prohibition.
Teeaytchsee
Active Member
take what you can get. its a start. ultimately we all want to see change on a federal level. freeing those people who fall under those statutes would be fantastic, but that is not the issue here. i agree that every man (or woman) should be given the right to his (or her) body to do with it what he (or she) will. there will always be restrictions.
to put it another way saying you dont want a Hershey bar because you like Snickers better is an elitist attitude. enjoy the damn chocolate and be happy you are able to have it.
wording can be changed. perhaps another state sees the validity of these arguments and chooses to take a more liberal stance. that's up to the state. once its federal we can all breathe a sigh of relief. for now let's not look a gift horse in the mouth. real change as you and others see it will take place the more people are educated of the truths of the substance. so take the time to do the research on the misleading information out there and then take that knowledge and share it.
to put it another way saying you dont want a Hershey bar because you like Snickers better is an elitist attitude. enjoy the damn chocolate and be happy you are able to have it.
wording can be changed. perhaps another state sees the validity of these arguments and chooses to take a more liberal stance. that's up to the state. once its federal we can all breathe a sigh of relief. for now let's not look a gift horse in the mouth. real change as you and others see it will take place the more people are educated of the truths of the substance. so take the time to do the research on the misleading information out there and then take that knowledge and share it.
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
Evidently you did not read my post as I did not get personal with you...You also do not understand Cali ballot initiatives or the meaning of "not withstanding"
We are not talking about beer...you can die drinking beer...and the 18-20 year old prohibition is not my only concern, nor is it my major concern...Keeping my private residence and my family from the intrusion of the morality police is...If you think the freaking State has a right to tell you what you do in the privacy of your home than vote yes. As it stands now...the pigs come to your house for a noise complaint...knock on door...smell weed...push their way in...oh but the spliff is gone...the kid is playing video games on floor...no crime (note that even if you had 20 spiffs rolled on the table...the crime is a ticket of about the same cost of a MMJ card...and the crime has nothing to do with your kids)
Prop 19 will change this...most of you little kiddies will soon have your own! Have some foresight beyond an 8 week indica!
I also do not need to quit my day job to try to pen another initiative (one is already written) so that you think I am doing enough to justify my opinion...I am voting Know!
Prop 19 does not address those jailed wrongfully. possession of an ounce today does not involve jail time...prop 19 CREATES Cannabis crimes which currently do not exist!
We went to war in Iraq because we care deeply for the cause of democracy...
And prop 19 was created to allow adults to recreationaly use cannabis while tax dollars bail out the state
We are not talking about beer...you can die drinking beer...and the 18-20 year old prohibition is not my only concern, nor is it my major concern...Keeping my private residence and my family from the intrusion of the morality police is...If you think the freaking State has a right to tell you what you do in the privacy of your home than vote yes. As it stands now...the pigs come to your house for a noise complaint...knock on door...smell weed...push their way in...oh but the spliff is gone...the kid is playing video games on floor...no crime (note that even if you had 20 spiffs rolled on the table...the crime is a ticket of about the same cost of a MMJ card...and the crime has nothing to do with your kids)
Prop 19 will change this...most of you little kiddies will soon have your own! Have some foresight beyond an 8 week indica!
I also do not need to quit my day job to try to pen another initiative (one is already written) so that you think I am doing enough to justify my opinion...I am voting Know!
Prop 19 does not address those jailed wrongfully. possession of an ounce today does not involve jail time...prop 19 CREATES Cannabis crimes which currently do not exist!
We went to war in Iraq because we care deeply for the cause of democracy...
And prop 19 was created to allow adults to recreationaly use cannabis while tax dollars bail out the state
Teeaytchsee
Active Member
and yet you think it is somehow better now than it would be after this prop is in place? really? you want to give up an opportunity for freedom because its "not enough". stop being selfish and get the hell over yourself. you have complaints and do nothing, but share them. what exactly are you helping by doing nothing, but bitching? if you dont like it then do something about it. this prop offers us a chance. if we dont take it we set ourselves as a nation back at least 2 years in regards to mj policy.
and federally speaking no matter what you do medically related or otherwise prop or no prop remains illegal. dont speak of being short sighted when you cant get past the wording.
btw we went to iraq for oil, not freedom. read more than these forums and listen to more than the 7pm news reels.
you can kid yourself all you like, but the spread of misinformation needs to cease.
theres a reason all dealers/black market industrialists do not want this to pass...
and federally speaking no matter what you do medically related or otherwise prop or no prop remains illegal. dont speak of being short sighted when you cant get past the wording.
btw we went to iraq for oil, not freedom. read more than these forums and listen to more than the 7pm news reels.
you can kid yourself all you like, but the spread of misinformation needs to cease.
theres a reason all dealers/black market industrialists do not want this to pass...
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
I don't need to be a lawyer to understand that prop 19 doesn't reverse our entire legal system. Anyone who completed jr highschool should understand that.
hoMEGROWengurl
Active Member
i agree....we dont NEED more flawed bills. all i want is for ppl to look at the bill...then vote as you choose(its your rightLike the scumbags who smoke around their families...or share with 20 year olds...or can't calculate the square footage of their odd shaped closet...those people are a threat to society! and should not be allowed to walk the streets...it's like pork added to federal war funding...only this is not a bridge to nowhere, but a bridge to prison.
Enacting flawed ballot initiatives is not a step forward for other states, it sets precedence and is very difficult to change in California once the voters have their say.
) but know what you are voting for! how much would really change?
hoMEGROWengurl
Active Member
read the bill!
Teeaytchsee
Active Member
i do truly hope for the day that we are free to enjoy it our our leisure or need again like it was pre-1937, but since the hope spring's eternal its unrealistic to try and hold out for better. we need this change (which will effect a great great deal across this country, speaking as one not located in CA anymore) to move towards the freedom we all seek. saying it's not enough is tantamount to a slap in the face. this bill, flawed or no, IS a step towards that hoped for eventual freedom for the rest of us across this great nation. change happens a step at a time. crawl before you walk.i agree....we dont NEED more flawed bills. all i want is for ppl to look at the bill...then vote as you choose(its your right
and really do the rest of us need to suffer because a few like yourselves want different wording?
are you so ignorant to think this will effect CA alone? most states still do not allow MJ for even medical purposes. when its viewed as an everyday run-of-the-mill substance such as alcohol or cigarettes (i understand it is not the same, but the policy will be) by a majority of the peopls who (like myself) are keeping a close eye on whats going on in CA that ideal will spread like wildfire. we will see more acceptance in the overall populace. when the myths dissolve the truth remains and we are in dire need of that truth spoken openly with confidence and education as its foundation.
hoMEGROWengurl
Active Member
the wording is the whole bill...it IS the whole debate....i want it to be legal as much as the next guy (or girl)...i dont want more regulation on the plant! what, my friends is it going to change? the naacp supports it because they are sick of young blacks having thier lifes ruined over a joint...hmmm no one gets thier life ruined over a joint..isnt it just a ticket? and the law will make it 21 .Statistically, the demographic that accounts for nearly one-quarter of total arrests for marijuana possession in California happens to be those in the 18-20 age group. so where is the change there?
im sick of this debate already....there are other options.
People think its legalization, its being sold as legalizationeven though its the opposite of legalization. - Dennis Peron, author of Prop. 215 that legalized medical marijuana in California
I hope people find the hope and inspiration to broadcast this, understand (the initiative), read it, and know that it's a step backwards. And we can do better. We will do better. - Dennis Peron
sry bout the multi posts
