The renewable energy changes and policy

DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

How batteries will power the future - with The Faraday Institution

Why are batteries so important for our future? Find out from expert Professor Louis Piper of WMG, University of Warwick, and a Principal Investigator at the Faraday Institution.

The Faraday Institution is the UK’s independent institute for electrochemical energy storage research, skills development, market analysis, and early-stage commercialisation.

Bringing together expertise from universities and industry, the Faraday Institution endeavours to make the UK the go-to place for the research and development of new electrical storage technologies for both the automotive and wider relevant sectors.

Find out more here: https://www.faraday.ac.uk/
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
This solar distillation apparatus mentioned above might produce 10 liters of fresh water per square meter if engineered and iteratively improved using some PV power or mirrors to drive the process for more production. A 1-meter square solar panel produces about .2 kWh of electricity and this thing might be able to produce both electricity and 10 liters of water per hour from the same system.

A typical 2-megawatt solar power system has about 10,000 square meters of panel surface area for instance and could produce up to 100,000 liters of water an hour, while the sun shines with this system, in addition to the electricity. Unlike electricity, water is easy to store and accumulate into large volumes eventually.

How about if the only utility scale solar the California SoCal utility was allowed to build was one of these dual power, fresh water generating solar stations? Leave most of the regular solar power generation to prosumers and be forced into this or wind power which compliments solar.

Imagine how much fresh water could be produced per day from gigawatt levels of panels that also produced solar while cooling the PV panels and absorbing the heat energy normally lost or that degrades the panel performance and using that heat energy to produce fresh water. How high would the total efficiency be, you would go from 20% usable total energy to something much higher.
Click to expand...
In the California example, how do you bring the seawater and discard the saline wastewater over the mountains?
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
In the California example, how do you bring the seawater and discard the saline wastewater over the mountains?
Click to expand...
There are many possible configurations for this design from passive to more active and some can even be placed in the water. The idea of pumping salt water would be just to move it a few miles inland where there might be cheaper land. From there it is desalinated in a solar cogeneration plant with extremely high efficiency! You then pipe the fresh water up a mountain with PV and let it run down the other side by gravity or in a canal covered in solar, that is a one-way trip. You could build them along the coast or just inland, maybe even in the water. A look at the global map will show the potential markets for such devices, so you can go crazy on the engineering and mass production side using mostly plastic I figure.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
In the California example, how do you bring the seawater and discard the saline wastewater over the mountains?
Click to expand...
The secret here is the hydrophobic membrane and the flow dynamics of the device, condensation stages might be separated too, it makes a multitude of designs possible, even inflatable designs.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
This solar distillation device might be made inflatable, and its only purpose is to provide fresh water. It might be packaged in a standard shipping container and quickly deployed in emergencies to provide fresh water. It would float on salt water once deployed and be mostly passively powered and might generate millions of liters of water a day. Water that could be pumped ashore with PV power and PV power might keep it inflated and increase its productivity. In the event of a storm drag it ashore and deflate it and live off the water stored on high ground.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
There are many possible configurations for this design from passive to more active and some can even be placed in the water. The idea of pumping salt water would be just to move it a few miles inland where there might be cheaper land. From there it is desalinated in a solar cogeneration plant with extremely high efficiency! You then pipe the fresh water up a mountain with PV and let it run down the other side by gravity or in a canal covered in solar, that is a one-way trip. You could build them along the coast or just inland, maybe even in the water. A look at the global map will show the potential markets for such devices, so you can go crazy on the engineering and mass production side using mostly plastic I figure.
Click to expand...
Please keep in mind I’m asking about California. There is no such thing as cheap land within sight of seawater. Thus my question about how to move the water 200 km one way over considerable terrain — and move the effluent back. Work with me here.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I like to discuss things that might have a big impact in the next decade and the solar desalinization idea is one and could have an enormous impact on a lot of people over the next decade.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
Please keep in mind I’m asking about California. There is no such thing as cheap land within sight of seawater. Thus my question about how to move the water 200 km one way over considerable terrain — and move the effluent back. Work with me here.
Click to expand...
I would never propose moving salt water more than a few kilometers from the sea and seafront property might be expensive. There is always expropriation for a solar/water cogeneration plant and the fresh water could be piped 270 miles to Las Vagas if required. Shit, pipe salt water on a one-way trip to the great Salt Lake and desalinate it there while dumping the rest in the lake would be an idea the morons would love! Add a few meters to the salt bed even!
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
I like to discuss things that might have a big impact in the next decade and the solar desalinization idea is one and could have an enormous impact on a lot of people over the next decade.
Click to expand...
I like it too, but would like to see it made to work where it is needed, usually not near a coast. Thus my questions.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
I would never propose moving salt water more than a few kilometers from the sea and seafront property might be expensive. There is always expropriation for a solar/water cogeneration plant and the fresh water could be piped 270 miles to Las Vagas if required. Shit, pipe salt water on a one-way trip to the great Salt Lake and desalinate it there while dumping the rest in the lake would be an idea the morons would love! Add a few meters to the salt bed even!
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US west coast is either quite mountainous or quite expensive and developed. Vegas is a good example. Never mind inland dumping. Describe the economics of making fresh water (and returning the effluent to source) 500km and three mountain ranges from seawater. There is nowhere between Tijuana and Santa Cruz where a water facility, or even a pumphouse, can be established. (teacher voice) You may begin…

now!
 
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DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
US west coast is either quite mountainous or quite expensive and developed. Vegas is a good example. Never mind inland dumping. Describe the economics of making fresh water (and returning the effluent to source) 500km and three mountain ranges from seawater. (teacher voice) You may begin…

now!
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If I proposed the proposition, I would be forced to defend it and I didn't, except as a bit of a joke, since they were talking about pumping salt water into the Great Salt Lake already! However, this idea might get them thinking about it more. It produces no effluent to speak of, but it takes energy to transport water, infrastructure too and it could be considered toxic to a degree. I don't see an issue in places like the middle east, if MBS liked the idea, move or face the bone saw! o_O
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
If I proposed the proposition, I would be forced to defend it and I didn't, except as a bit of a joke, since they were talking about pumping salt water into the Great Salt Lake already! However, this idea might get them thinking about it more. It produces no effluent to speak of, but it takes energy to transport water, infrastructure too and it could be considered toxic to a degree. I don't see an issue in places like the middle east, if MBS liked the idea, move or face the bone saw! o_O
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OK but you volunteered California. Show how it works for us inland desert dwellers. We need water (that weather didn’t provide), and can spend more for it than most.

A nice idea is one thing. A plan is entirely another.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I like it too, but would like to see it made to work where it is needed, usually not near a coast. Thus my questions.
Click to expand...
Lots of people live in desert coastal areas and this might be used all along the Mediterranean, red sea and the gulf, all parched regions. Fresh water can be pumped up coastal mountains and flow for hundreds of miles inland in solar panel covered canals in some cases. You can line those canals from a cement made from sand, carbon nanofibers and recycled pop and water bottles, heat it up and print or lay it.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
OK but you volunteered California. Show how it works for us inland desert dwellers. We need water (that weather didn’t provide), and can spend more for it than most.

A nice idea is one thing. A plan is entirely another.
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For your area, who knows, I'm talking about civilized places with organized societies! o_O

Would those republicans in the agricultural imperial valley like the idea of making solar and lots of fresh water altogether? Even if it was for just the city folk on the coast it would take the heat off their supply, and they are only a mountain range away and we have tunnel boring machines to punch through them these days.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
Lots of people live in desert coastal areas and this might be used all along the Mediterranean, red sea and the gulf, all parched regions. Fresh water can be pumped up coastal mountains and flow for hundreds of miles inland in solar panel covered canals in some cases. You can line those canals from a cement made from sand, carbon nanofibers and recycled pop and water bottles, heat it up and print or lay it.
Click to expand...
You’re dodging; got it

I would have liked you to work the Vegas example. It’s so much more satisfying to see a serious model than some no-numbers flight of fancy.
DIY-HP-LED said:
For your area, who knows, I'm talking about civilized places with organized societies! o_O

Would those republicans in the agricultural imperial valley like the idea of making solar and lots of fresh water altogether? Even if it was for just the city folk on the coast it would take the heat off their supply, and they are only a mountain range away and we have tunnel boring machines to punch through them these days.
Click to expand...
Ok quote me the cost of boring and quakeproofing a conduit from Vegas (alt. 600m) to the Mexican coast.
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
OK but you volunteered California. Show how it works for us inland desert dwellers. We need water (that weather didn’t provide), and can spend more for it than most.

A nice idea is one thing. A plan is entirely another.
Click to expand...
Remember it is probably only 150 miles from the coast to the Hellhole where you live! :lol: Piping freshwater that distance is doable, even if you have to expropriate properties near the coast!
 
DIY-HP-LED

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
You’re dodging; got it

I would have liked you to work the Vegas example. It’s so much more satisfying to see a serious model than some no-numbers flight of fancy.

Ok quote me the cost of boring and quakeproofing a conduit from Vegas (alt. 600m) to the Mexican coast.
Click to expand...
We're just talking about a good idea here and looking at some possibilities, not doing an engineering deep dive into design. It appears to be a very good way to create fresh water from seawater using solar power with extraordinary efficiency and has the potential to generate electricity too, though it might be at the expense of water production. It has the potential to be scaled to solar park size which could be millions of square meters while generating some electricity too. If land can be obtained near coastal areas, then it should be possible and feasible with cogeneration to make large volumes of fresh water a day, more than for coastal needs perhaps. It is possible and being done to pump freshwater hundreds of miles inland either by tunnel and pipe or via canals which can be solar covered. With proper siting and using geohydrology design, it can use gravity to move water vast distances in canals alone.

There are many uninhabited sections of coastline too, even in California and especially elsewhere like the middle east. This is a global issue, not one specific to California and it's unique social and political considerations that often lead the Golden bear to shoot itself in the foot! Engineers in the middle east and Asia will be developing this idea too.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
DIY-HP-LED said:
We're just talking about a good idea here and looking at some possibilities, not doing an engineering deep dive into design. It appears to be a very good way to create fresh water from seawater using solar power with extraordinary efficiency and has the potential to generate electricity too, though it might be at the expense of water production. It has the potential to be scaled to solar park size which could be millions of square meters while generating some electricity too. If land can be obtained near coastal areas, then it should be possible and feasible with cogeneration to make large volumes of fresh water a day. more than for coastal needs perhaps. It is possible and being done to pump freshwater hundreds of miles inland either by tunnel and pipe or via canals which can be solar covered. with proper siting and using geohydrology design, it can use gravity to move water vast distances in canals alone.

There are many uninhabited sections of coastline too, even in California and especially elsewhere like the middle east. This is a global issue, not one specific to California and it's unique social and political considerations that often lead the Golden bear to shoot itself in the foot! Engineers in the middle east and Asia will be developing this idea too.
Click to expand...
bolded 1: that’s the rub.

bolded 2: it’s called parkland/protected wilderness tucked between $multimillion properties.

Of course I’m interested in the application to local conditions. Geographic and economic barriers conspire.

On closer consideration, perhaps best it won’t easily work here. A Mojave metropolis of thirty million (and water is the dealbreaker) would really harsh my buzz.
 
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