The renewable energy changes and policy

Get the idea? These batteries work well in the cold, sometimes better and way better than a Tesla.

Those cheap Chinese batteries might be closer to America than we think. The fools in Michigan killed the CATL plant there that would be making these cells, but it will be built, elsewhere, if necessary, Canada possibly.
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Does CATL make batteries in the US?

Ford says it will work with the Chinese battery maker Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Limited (CATL) to build a $3.5 billion lithium iron phosphate battery plant in Michigan. Ford will own the factory and make batteries using CATL's technology.Feb 24, 2023

Ford, CATL to build US battery plant - C&EN

Potential sites for the new factories include South Carolina and Kentucky, where BMW and Ford already have assembly plants. The investment marks CATL's first production base in the US and the second in markets outside China.

CATL Gears up for EV Battery Plant in the US - Seneca ESG

DIY-HP-LED said:

If you look at a truck from the 60s and reimagine it a bit, since an EV can be much more aerodynamic. The hood can be sloped to a point and the windshield can be sloped more too, even the tailgate can be designed to fold down and slide in under the bed, when it is empty which is 99% of the time for many of them. Trying to make a modern F150 or RAM into an EV is a fool's errand, the concept of a half-ton needs to be rethought from the ground up, at least for pragmatic people who make money with their trucks.

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Part of the problem is that cars of the 50s to early 70s were quite lightweight. They had little or none of the safety and basic comfort features a late-model vehicle must have.

The New Beetle weighs twice its predecessor due to crashworthiness upgrades, better body stiffness, drivetrain electronics and emissions controls etc. It gets almost the mpg of the OG.

So shedding that much weight would require very expensive engineering and manufacturing (think F1 levels), far past a point of diminishing returns.

When comparing a prospective vehicle to ones as old as you and I, you cannot ignore that the rules for registrability for use on the public roads have changed, and the most Spartan cars you can now make or buy weigh over a ton — two if BEV, not counting useless “quadricycles.”

Long cycle life too, 6000 cycles is a lot, if the car batteries are as good as the power wall batteries and I believe they are the same cells, they should last a long time too, but their conditions are harsher than a power wall. 6000 cycles they will outlive the EV, especially one that tops up every night or a couple of times a week from home.

What is the cycle life of a CATL LFP battery?

CATL 280Ah LiFePO4 battery cell is 3.2V LFP battery, widely used in home solar energy storage system, and it has been top choice for ESS DIY. This 280Ah lithium battery cell has 6000 max cycle life, long service life makes it suitable for diy powerwall.
CATL 3.2V 280Ah LiFePO4 Battery Cell - Gobel Power

cannabineer said:

Part of the problem is that cars of the 50s to early 70s were quite lightweight. They had little or none of the safety and basic comfort features a late-model vehicle must have.

The New Beetle weighs twice its predecessor due to crashworthiness upgrades, better body stiffness, drivetrain electronics and emissions controls etc. It gets almost the mpg of the OG.

So shedding that much weight would require very expensive engineering and manufacturing (think F1 levels), far past a point of diminishing returns.

When comparing a prospective vehicle to ones as old as you and I, you cannot ignore that the rules for registrability for use on the public roads have changed, and the most Spartan cars you can now make or buy weigh over a ton — two if BEV, not counting useless “quadricycles.”

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I was just using it as an example of something that doesn't need to push a 4'x8' sheet of plywood's worth of air in front of it to move down the highway. Better design and hopefully more power dense batteries, still for hauling loads and trailers you will have to pump a lot of juice in no matter how good the batteries get.

cannabineer said:

Part of the problem is that cars of the 50s to early 70s were quite lightweight. They had little or none of the safety and basic comfort features a late-model vehicle must have.

The New Beetle weighs twice its predecessor due to crashworthiness upgrades, better body stiffness, drivetrain electronics and emissions controls etc. It gets almost the mpg of the OG.

So shedding that much weight would require very expensive engineering and manufacturing (think F1 levels), far past a point of diminishing returns.

When comparing a prospective vehicle to ones as old as you and I, you cannot ignore that the rules for registrability for use on the public roads have changed, and the most Spartan cars you can now make or buy weigh over a ton — two if BEV, not counting useless “quadricycles.”

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Some might have bigger problems than truck design, that CATL price drop must have made some people nearly shit their pants! $56./kWh, Jesus Christ! I can hear it now in the American and EU boardrooms...

Want grid or home storage, or batteries for an EV, these guys are your one stop solution, just add solar panels and wind turbines for energy independence, from homeowners, to businesses, to entire fucking countries!

They have a pilot plant in America set to expand to gigafactory size and more are being built, so much for tariffs. Let's see if they can match the prices back home, if they can, it will raise the bar to market entry for competition by lowering the price. Small cars will benefit the most from these batteries and their cold weather performance resolves many issues in America or improves the situation a lot. At around $80/KWh batteries reach price parity with ICE cars and below that they beat ICE cars on price point.

DIY-HP-LED said:

Want grid or home storage, or batteries for an EV, these guys are your one stop solution, just add solar panels and wind turbines for energy independence, form homeowners, to businesses, to entire fucking countries!

They have a pilot plant in America set to expand to gigafactory size and more are being built, so much for tariffs. Let's see if they can match the prices back home, if they can, it will raise the bar to market entry for competition by lowering the price. Small cars will benefit the most from these batteries and their cold weather performance resolves many issues in America or improves the situation a lot. At around $80/KWh batteries reach price parity with ICE cars and below that they beat ICE cars on price point.

CATL Battery | EVlithium

Get power and performance with CATL Battery. Our range of high quality LiFePO4 batteries ensure efficient, reliable and affordable energy for homes or businesses. For durable and safe solutions, get CATL Batteries from Evlithium!

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Chinese manufacture. I’m not a protectionist, but this is China behaving like Standard Oil of old, undercutting the competition in order to kill them.

Seems worth a boycott to me.

cannabineer said:

Chinese manufacture. I’m not a protectionist, but this is China behaving like Standard Oil of old, undercutting the competition in order to kill them.

Seems worth a boycott to me.

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CATL are building battery factories in America and using locally sourced materials, partnering with domestic automakers and even selling them the battery factories after setting them up and getting them going for them. So much for tariffs. I posted it to illustrate what is going on globally in the energy market.

If they can match the price back home of $56/kWh for LFP batteries that are "good enough", it will cause an earthquake in the battery, EV and power storage industry, it suddenly makes solar and wind more feasible and cheaper, the grid more efficient. I believe I posted a video of a US pilot plant that was already producing these cells while developing the supply chain and training staff. A gigafactory was being built and several are planned for America, these guys are not fucking around!

cannabineer said:

Chinese manufacture. I’m not a protectionist, but this is China behaving like Standard Oil of old, undercutting the competition in order to kill them.

Seems worth a boycott to me.

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It seems a direct assault, and probably through Mexico too, but they and other Chinese companies are putting down roots in North America. There can't be national or energy security concerns if Ford owns and operates the battery factory after buying the tech, service contract and future upgrades from CATL. It is a pragmatic solution for America too, though it might be a temporary one once America's R&D might hits the road too. If those folks in Michigan don't want the "Chinese" (probably Ford's) battery plant, Ontario and the Canadian government are probably courting them, we get some of Uncle Sam's money too.

DIY-HP-LED said:

CATL are building battery factories in America and using locally sourced materials, partnering with domestic automakers and even selling them the battery factories after setting them up and getting them going for them. So much for tariffs. I posted it to illustrate what is going on globally in the energy market.

If they can match the price back home of $56/kWh for LFP batteries that are "good enough", it will cause an earthquake in the battery, EV and power storage industry, it suddenly makes solar and wind more feasible and cheaper, the grid more efficient. I believe I posted a video of a US pilot plant that was already producing these cells while developing the supply chain and training staff. A gigafactory was being built and several are planned for America, these guys are not fucking around!

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All I’m finding is >$300/kWh

cannabineer said:

All I’m finding is >$300/kWh

EG4 LL-S Lithium Batteries Kit | 30.72kWh | 6 Server Rack Batteries With Pre-Assembled Enclosed Rack | With Door & Wheels | Busbar Covers – Portable Sun LLC

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You read the post, CATL announced it and are building the same battery factories in America now. $56/kWh by June of this year, we have a firm date and price, at least for China, for now. Maybe some folks will hold off on guying that gizmo if it looks like the bottom might fall out this summer!

$56/kWh is stunning and exceed even my optimistic outlook and Tony Seba's by 3 years. $80/kWh is price parity with an ICE car, and this drops battery costs far below that. When will it get to America? Follow the industry news as the gigafactories go up and into production.

DIY-HP-LED said:

You read the post, CATL announced it and are building the same battery factories in America now. $56/kWh by June of this year, we have a firm date and price, at least for China, for now. Maybe some folks will hold off on guying that gizmo if it looks like the bottom might fall out this summer!

$56/kWh is stunning and exceed even my optimistic outlook and Tony Seba's by 3 years. $80/kWh is price parity with an ICE car, and this drops battery costs far below that. When will it get to America? Follow the industry news as the gigafactories go up and into production.

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Show me home batteries retail-priced below $100/kWh.

cannabineer said:

Show me home batteries retail-priced below $100/kWh.

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Maybe I should post retail news...

Battery costs for EVs are dropping faster than expected, as CATL and BYD are producing them for as low as $56/kWh. Over time, this could translate to even cheaper batteries over the coming years and decades.



Summary:

• Tony Seba shares that CATL and BYD are dropping LFP battery costs to as low as $56/kWh.
• Leapmotor VP Cao Li says their costs are dropping to $55.62/kWh.
• Cost curves are like gravity.
• If this pace keeps up, there are profound implications in a positive direction for the future of EVs.

When looking at these numbers and the astonishing pace of innovation to reduce battery costs, I realized that a 200-mile range EV costing $5,000 could happen even sooner.

China is currently leading the way in these cost declines of battery technology, with CATL and BYD leading the way.

They have one for $11,000 now and it is regular sized and aimed at the global market. Does it factor in the 50% battery price drop? If not, it will get even cheaper.


In 2030, A 200-Mile Range EV Will Cost $5,000 - And the Cost Decline Doesn't Stop There


Huge Changes Are Coming in Transportation and Energy

There are huge changes coming in transportation and energy. The cost of an autonomous vehicle in the future will be less than just the cost of burning gasoline fuel.

In addition to that, by 2030, there will be a $5,000, 200-mile range EV and by 2046, that same EV will cost $300. At that point, transportation is virtually free.

I don't think the Tesla Model 3, the upcoming compact car (which will be produced at a breakneck pace), or even the sub-compact car will make it to the $5,000 price point, but the sub-compact car won't be too far off.

In a video from Tony Seba, he goes over the cost declines of transportation and energy over time using Wright's Law - a continuing cost decline of goods and services - in this case, EVs, as production doubles, cost also declines at a consistent rate.
...

‘Smoking gun proof’: fossil fuel industry knew of climate danger as early as 1954, documents show
Experts say the documents show the fossil fuel industry had intimate involvement in the inception of modern climate science, along with its warnings of the severe harm climate change will wreak, only to then publicly deny this science for decades and fund ongoing efforts to delay action on the climate crisis.

Maybe the truck lanes could have a long wireless charging strip embedded right into the road, or checkpoints that directly boost the trucks on board auxiliary capacitors, so they don't have to stop at Donnas truck stop to charge up and eat corn bug dogs for 8 hours as often. Treat them more like a giant slot car?

CATL’S NEW LFP CELL
Besides its new Beijing battery plant, CATL is also working on a new lithium iron phosphate (LFP) cell. It is currently marketing a 173-Ah VDA-spec LFP cell with 2.2 fast charging. The Chinese battery supplier is working on reducing battery costs and improving performance with the new LFP cell.

CnEVPost explains that the new LFP battery will be square cells that can reach full charge in 30 minutes. CATL is marketing the cell for affordable electric vehicles between the selling price of RMB 100,000 ($14,033) and RMB 200,000 ($28,067).

CATL also offers the Shenxing, the world’s first 4C superfast charging LFP battery. The award-winning LFP battery can deliver 400 km (249 miles) of driving range after 10 minutes of charge and over 700 km (435 miles) of range on a single full charge.

Drop That Sound said:

Maybe the truck lanes could have a long wireless charging strip embedded right into the road, or checkpoints that directly boost the trucks on board auxiliary capacitors, so they don't have to stop at Donnas truck stop to charge up and eat corn bug dogs for 8 hours as often. Treat them more like a giant slot car?

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Only 20 to 30% of the main routes need wires, the truck charges on the move, they can power trains with pantographs, trolly's too.