The Truth About Flushing

HapaHaole

Well-Known Member
Aloha one and all~

I know this is an old thread but I am hoping that I can find some help here about flushing. Here is a quote I copied from the first entry: (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always).

I am about to go into flower with my first clones ever and technically speaking they have only had 1/4 strength nutes, x-planted into final containers just a couple days ago which = plenty of NEW nutes + a FF soluble @ 2 times. They are 6 weeks old tomorrow. Wonder if you think I still need to flush them or can I put em right into 12/12? I'll post a new thread too just in case.

Appreciate any help you can offer~
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
Riddleme uses soilless medium, as do I (Promix w/Perlite). I gather from the 'plenty of NEW nutes' that you are in soil. If you are in soil, there is no need to flush in the same way-- although I must confess that I am no soil expert.
 

gumball

Well-Known Member
Riddleme uses soilless medium, as do I (Promix w/Perlite). I gather from the 'plenty of NEW nutes' that you are in soil. If you are in soil, there is no need to flush in the same way-- although I must confess that I am no soil expert.
NOPE, perlite. I mean they dont try and live off of any old nutes still left in the medium.
 

smotts

Well-Known Member

Harvesting Curing Drying - Take Back the Knowledge


There is an old hippie growers myth that says to soak the roots in water for 3 to 10 days before harvest this is not to be confused with the flush that everyone talks about (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always) the tip/myth is supposed to improve the quality of our smoke. I have to admit that I never paid it much attention until now because I have now proven it is not a myth and has some scientific validation.

What it amounts to is a way to start the cure prior to harvest while the plant is still alive. This is an incredible find as far as I am concerned and I can not wait to try it. what it amounts to is starving the plant of oxygen by drowning it, if in hydro take away the bubbles or spray fill the tank with water and wait, if in a pot either continuously water it (keep it wet/soaked) or stick the pot in a bigger bucket of water.
I havn't read the whole thread so if this was already brought up someone let me know plz.

The way I heard it you have to use water with tons of sugar in it. An old friend told me he used to pull the plants from the ground and leave the roots in buckets of sugar water for about a week before drying.
 

marc88101

Well-Known Member
I would like to know what the negatives are to drowning, with every positive there has to be a negative. Root rot, bud rot, easier to get mold when drying after drowning..ect?? Has anyone noticed and I'll affect?
 

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member

I havn't read the whole thread so if this was already brought up someone let me know plz.

The way I heard it you have to use water with tons of sugar in it. An old friend told me he used to pull the plants from the ground and leave the roots in buckets of sugar water for about a week before drying.​


Check out the posts by bekindbud, starting at post #243. To sum up: stinky.

I would like to know what the negatives are to drowning, with every positive there has to be a negative. Root rot, bud rot, easier to get mold when drying after drowning..ect?? Has anyone noticed and I'll affect?
The only down side I am aware of is that the process is a bit of a PITA. You need to weigh the pot down in a bigger bucket filled with water, and it takes time.​
 

smotts

Well-Known Member
Cool, seems he had good results with molasses. I wonder why he went with molasses instead just white sugar? Maybe I'll try drowning one in maple water :)
 

Jayman1

Member
big waste of time reading this not helpful really alot of information but no pros and cons u just explain how the plant feeds basically then got sidetracked wayyyy off course with curing and fermentation in plants lol when i was reading this i felt you didnt quite understand what it was lol you just started piecing together information you have found on the internet or from a book and threw er down hahaha. really shouldnt have named this the truth about flushing on account of its really the truth about how the plant feeds/ what curing does and how it works/ fermentation in plants/ jibberish
 

Bigby

Well-Known Member
I want to say well done to the OP for further complexifying an already complex issue, and in so doing managing to demystify it slightly for me. Many growers, myself included want a definitive answer when it comes to flushing. This is rarely possible for anything in life, equally true for this specific issue. The whole reading the signs from the plant, gradually reducing the nutrients but not to the expense of failing to read signs from the plant bit really rings true. Of course you don't want to pump your plant full of heavy nutes right up to harvest, but equally you don't want to suddenly flush it of everything. This works for me. I want to see signs of maturing in my plant, but not signs of undue stress.

My last grow involved some flushing (but only with 1.5x the pot capacity), combined with reintroduction of fresh nutrients after but at a greatly reduced level. My hope was this would remove anything unwanted that may have built up (I believe the cal/mag I use to be a chem fert), whilst mirroring what might occur in nature as a plant slowly uses up it's available nutrients. Hard to judge any impact on the quality of the buds as due to low humidity they dried too quickly. I will be doing the same this time, and should be able to dry properly so we shall see.

Right, I'm off to read that fermentation bit now, and possibly readjust my plans once again. Thanks again dude! :-)
 

Tacky

Member
old thread but a good thread.
thanks riddleme and all who contributed positively.

hate the flush - love the whole 'drown that bitch' idea.

my question is for those who have settled on the drowning technique and have some experience.

it was said that drowning in darkness was necessary for a few days but with lights on it was closer to two weeks
could we cut down on the 'lights on' time by trimming off most of the leaves and therefore depriving it of most of the light it would otherwise enjoy/utilize?
alot of threads say that severe stress towards the end of flower can increase resin production, so this seems like an obvious next step/test.

my setup is far too small for a side by side and i doubt i could ever get definitive results myself, so im hoping someone else will chime in with some experience or just a "can do" attitude and give it a go.
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I use and follow Hydrponic Research VEG+BLOOM schedule. I begin backing down ppms the last 2-3 weeks

I get lots of comments on how smooth my mmj is
 

MrEDuck

Well-Known Member
I've grown plants start to finish in Miracle Grow that have gotten compliments on smoothness and flavor and being "properly flushed" by pot snobs who've probably never seen a living marijuana plant let alone grown one. It's all about a good cure.
 

urban1026835

Well-Known Member
day 60 and timewreck and although i did give it a heavy plain feeding today with the intention of starting to flush i have changed my mind. So i will continue my normal feeding schedule for another 5 days and then in the other room she goes to drown herself in the dark for 4-5 days.
I will post my results as i have another clone of the same wreck only 10 or 11 days behind this one that i will give a normal 1 week flush so i can get a good comparison of the two.
They have both been given the same nutes light feeding schedule everything, only difference would be one is in a 1 gal, and the other in a 2 gal smart pot.
 

JohnnySocko

Active Member
what we need here are about 1000 blindfolded hardcore rasta pot heads and give them un-flushed bud vs .flushed bud and do a taste test...until someone plots that shit with an excel spread sheet and does statistical scatter plot analysis with complex calculus & algorithms & shit (or any of the stuff I failed in college), were all fcking guessing... :mrgreen:
 

Figgy

Well-Known Member
was fun to read this again after several years

but did make me miss Lumi Love ya Bro !!! wish you could see where we took it, I now have folks telling me my buds are better than Dabs lol A guy flew in last week from Oz just to sample em

been postin lately on a few other forums to share the new research, google this

End of the Rainbow, The Leprechaun's Pot O Gold

if your curious
Welcome back Riddle. Looks like that icmag thread was recepted well over there. Maybe it's time for some education here on RIU ;). I'm going to have to join icmag just to see the pics in that thread if you don't post them here.
 

RM3

Well-Known Member
Welcome back Riddle. Looks like that icmag thread was recepted well over there. Maybe it's time for some education here on RIU ;). I'm going to have to join icmag just to see the pics in that thread if you don't post them here.
I tried to share it here (as Hogbud) and it was a trainwreck. Besides the pics are worth the login :)
 

RM3

Well-Known Member
As the guy that wrote "The Truth About Flushing" (Google it) years ago I want to first address all the new growers that may read this.

You will find a lot of hype and a lot of myths as well as a lot of BS in pot forums. You will also find little nuggets of truth, but you have to look for em and it means a lot of reading. My advice to new growers has always been, go read regular garden forums, Google "Al Tapla" and read everything you can find !!! He is a regular garden guru and his instruction is pure gold. Learn to grow and keep a plant healthy. Learn to read the plants needs and get 3 good harvest under your belt. Then start experimenting !!! and see stuff for yourself, keep an open mind and never put your foot down as this is how we learn new things. I've been growing for over 40 years and I still have experiments going in every grow, my current grow ,,,,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=295624

Has 4 experiments running at the moment. There are also pics and post that will verify things I'm about to share


My point, new growers, is there are a lot of ways to grow this plant and you need to find what works for you and fills your needs. The best way to do this is try things that you find via reading/research and observe the results for yourself.

As already stated the flushing debate has gone on for many years and I have always stood on the flushing is bad side. If you actually go read my post on the truth about flushing you'll see it does have links to science backing up the points, but I have been told there are dead links now these years later. Doesn't matter, I'm not here to pimp the article or to argue, I'm here to settle this decades long debate and give the other side their science lol.

Yeppers, both sides are right in terms of the finished product and for new growers this may well be the most important thing I share with you today. Good buds, non harsh, white ash, tasty buds are the result of a proper cure ,,,,,,, period ! Bad taste, harshness, snap crackle pop and black ash are the result of unfermented sugars, not nutes and are the result of a bad/improper cure ,,,,,,, period ! Take a teaspoon of sugar and apply a flame to it, you'll see what I mean. It is of utmost importance that you learn how to properly cure em !!!

I myself, do things very differently then most, when my plants are ready to harvest I water em with boiling water, then leave em under the lights for 3~4 days I keep em green and healthy, I use chem nutes and I don't flush at the end. If you read my grow journal, you'll see independent smoke reports that describe my buds. I invented and use a fermentation chamber to dry and cure my herb and it is based on the way tobacco and other plants are cured, a brief description,,,,

Quote:
In general, curing can be divided into three distinct stages: yellowing, leaf drying, and stem drying. The first stage can be described as a period of major chemical conversions and color development. Air temperature in the barn is maintained between 30 and 40°C, with relative humidity of 80 to 95%, (5,12) for about 48 h or until the leaves turn yellow. In the second stage, air temperature in the barn is increased gradually to 50 or 60°C, while relative humidity is lowered to allow more rapid moisture removal. This stage lasts for 36 to 72 h (12). The last stage (stem drying) generally requires 36 to 48 h. Air temperature is increased to 74°C with further decrease of relative humidity to permit rapid drying of the midrib.
From Here ,,,,
https://boltonsmokersclub.wordpress....or-cigarettes/

There are pics of my fermentation chamber in my journal. note: I do not use the extreme temps & humidity, but the stages do occur as described in my process.

The science is basic and simple and is also very well known. In the absence of O2 (oxygen) ALL plants go into a survival mode converting sugars into alcohol known as fermentation (what we call the cure) I have attached a pic that shows this process.

My watering with boiling water imitates a flood condition and starves the roots of O2. N is the major component for the required energy to properly convert the sugars to alcohol and once I boil em they start pullin on the leaves because they can no longer get nutes from the roots.

Here is the science with regard to how plants handle floods ,,,,

Quote:
There are many types of fermentative bacteria in soils, such as the genus Bacillus, Clostridium, and Lactobacillus. 4 ATP molecules per molecule of glucose are produced by fermentation, while 38 ATP molecules are produced by aerobic respiration. Although the energy yield via fermentation is less than respiration, fermentation plays an important role in anaerobic respiration for obligate and facultative anaerobic bacteria, including denitrifier, Fe3+, Mn4+, SO42-, reducers, and methanogens. Sugar (glucose or fructose) is broken down into simple compounds (e.g. formate, acetate, and ethanol) during fermentation. Also, numerous fermentation products, such as carbon dioxide, fatty acid, lactic, alcohols, are released into soils. These compounds serve as substrates for other anaerobic bacteria. Thus, low molecular weight organic compounds produced from fermentation influence the reduction of Fe(III), Mn(IV), SO42-, and CO2(Richardson And Vepraskas 2000).
From Here ,,,,,
https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index...xic_Conditions

When you flush at the end or limit the nute regimen and cause the plants to fade you are taking away the "other" way that plants get and use O2 which is via gas exchange thru the stomata. As leaves fade and die the stomata are decreased and you thereby decrease the gas exchange and access to O2 once again causing the plant go into survival mode.

Here is the science ,,,,

Quote:
Green plants require oxygen for normal growth and development. The energy released in cellular respiration, from the breakdown of carbohydrates and complex organic molecules, consumes oxygen and releases CO2. Most plants respire continuously, day and night, requiring a continuous supply of oxygen. Anaerobic respiration or fermentation occurs in the absence of oxygen. The products of this form of respiration are often deleterious to the plant and the energy released is relatively small compared to aerobic respiration. Roots also require oxygen for aerobic respiration which they obtain directly from the growing media. The absorption of salts and root extension are dependent upon the energy supplied from respiration.
From Here ,,,,
https://www.hydrofarm.com/resources/...lantgrowth.php

Folks this is Botany 101, there is nothing complicated about it. The advantage of the method that ThaiBliss describes is that in the low dose feeding the required energy to process the sugars properly is available and the swelling being described is because the roots are still functioning though not at peak performance levels.

In the end both camps are right for different reasons. IMO the flush, low dose feed and fade methods will enhance the flavor profile (the fading of tea leaves is how different flavors are obtained) For me this occurs in my chamber. The keep em green camp feed till the end are getting better yields and have healthier stress resistant plants.

This natural process still occurs even if you don't boil, flood, or flush/fade your plants it simply takes a bit longer and requires a different mindset as to how you dry. You want em to dry slowly to take advantage of the process to obtain a proper cure. Back in the day we dried em in bundles wrapped in sheets to facilitate this process.

Two other practices widely known are to girdle the stems and/or to break the stems knocking the plants over before harvest. Both of these methods require a few weeks for results to occur properly.

And there you have it the science that explains why it all works and as I said earlier growers should try all methods and discover what works best for them !!!!
 

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