The Truth About Flushing
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Afgan King
Well-Known Member
Ok still doesn't change what I'm gonna do again I do it for fade lol I'm not worried about what I'm losing I'm over 2 a light on most of my grows unless I run a bunch of diff strains so not worried about losing some grams I just want my colors
hellmutt bones
Well-Known Member
I've been to other forums... RIU is the only place you get misinformation about flushing and other topics.
You can read every grow book and they will tell you to flush.
Every forum other than Riu and they all flush..
So why is there all this bs anout not flushing???
Do both ways believe me you will tell the difference.
You can read every grow book and they will tell you to flush.
Every forum other than Riu and they all flush..
So why is there all this bs anout not flushing???
Do both ways believe me you will tell the difference.
bgmike8
Well-Known Member
Just because it's commonly accepted doesn't mean it's right.
I suppose riu is ahead of the game. That's cool.
I don't know how you could tell a difference from what I have. It's excellent.
I just posted a link to an article from a source that isn't biased and they say hey, wtf are we flushing for. No science to support it
RM3
Well-Known Member
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
Lots of great articles beyond the flushing topic, thanks! I've flushed, not flushed, and for the most part I have not noticed a difference. I did however notice a huge difference when I added a growth regulator once and it made the buds take on a horrible taste, it was a multi plant tray and being a seed grow there were different pheno's with different finish times, the later finishing plants were switched to plain in ph'd water and the bad taste was gone for the most part. Again this is the only time I have ever noticed a difference with my grows.
Harvesting Curing Drying - Take Back the Knowledge
There is an old hippie growers myth that says to soak the roots in water for 3 to 10 days before harvest this is not to be confused with the flush that everyone talks about (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always) the tip/myth is supposed to improve the quality of our smoke. I have to admit that I never paid it much attention until now because I have now proven it is not a myth and has some scientific validation.
What it amounts to is a way to start the cure prior to harvest while the plant is still alive. This is an incredible find as far as I am concerned and I can not wait to try it. what it amounts to is starving the plant of oxygen by drowning it, if in hydro take away the bubbles or spray fill the tank with water and wait, if in a pot either continuously water it (keep it wet/soaked) or stick the pot in a bigger bucket of water.
I need to add some background info as I'm getting ahead of myself, most of you know that if you add sugar and yeast together it ferments into alcohol giving off CO2. The basic definition of Fermentation is the act of breaking down sugars into alcohol and our plants do this internally thru a natural process even while growing. The act of fermentation is a oxidation/reduction process (explained in prior post) just as most plant functions seem to be. Also please be aware that N is needed for proper fermintation to take place.
Here is the info I found verifying that this old hippie myth is real,,,,,
MrMistery wrote
jules
Plants use photosynthesis to make sugars out of water, CO2 and sunlight. But a plant cell (like any other cell) cannot use sugars for their cellular processes, it needs to break down the sugars and make ATP. Basically, the only difference between humans and plants in this chapter is that plants make their own sugars, while we get ours from food. But we still both need to use those sugars, and we do that through cellular respiration.
@douglebod
Fermentation is strictly defined as any way of anaerobically degrade pyruvic acid and recycle NAD+ to keep glycolysis going. You can then categorize this process as lactic acid fermentation (where pyruvate accepts electrons from NADH directly and becomes lactate), alcoholic fermentation (where pyruvate is first decarboxylated to acetaldehyde which then accepts electrons from NADH to become ethanol) and others (which are much more obscure). So technically, human cells are able to carry out lactic acid fermentation. Liver cells also have the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (responsible for ethanol formation in yeast and other fungi), but we use it in the reverse direction so to speak to get rid of any alcohol which we consume by converting it to pyruvate.
Plants however, can carry out alcoholic fermatation. They don't normally do it, because plants are usually in contact with oxygen. However, if you flood the root of a plant for about a week the cells are starved of oxygen, and because of this they will start carrying out alcoholic fermentation to survive.
-Andrei
very true
that is what my bio textbook says.
just to complete the last part
in alcoholic pathway ethanol forms a waste while the lactate formed in the lactate pathway can be broken down further. that is what leads to the oxygen debt
found here,
http://www.biology-online.org/biolog...bout16671.html
and,
Alcoholic Fermentation In Plants
By the following, which we find in the London Gardener's Chronicle, it will be seen that the discovery is somewhat akin to those of Prof. Burrill and others in this country:
"When plants are deprived of oxygen gas it appears that alcohol is formed in all their tissues without the aid of any ferment. If a vegetable cell containing sugar be cut off from its supply of oxygen - be suffocated, in fact - the sugar it contains becomes broken up or changed into carbonic acid, alcohol, and other products. Moreover, the various alcoholic ferments only produce their effects under the same conditions. Alcoholic fermentation, then, depends solely on the suffocation of a living cell containing sugar. Starting from these ascertained facts, M. Van Tieghem, in a recent number of the Annales Agronomiques, alludes to a peculiar disease in apple trees
due to a suffocation of the roots, followed by the production of alcohol in their tissues. On microscopic examination the tissues were found healthy, except the medullary rays, the cells of which, instead of containing starch or sugar, contained brown oily globules, the residue left after the formation of the alcohol, which latter is diffused throughout the root, tinging the cells of a characteristic brown color, and giving rise to an easily detected alcoholic odor.
Judging from these appearances what was the nature of the disease, M. Van Tieghem made inquiries as to the character of the soil, and from this, as well as the fact that the season had been extremely wet, his diagnosis was confirmed, and he in consequence prescribed efficient drainage as the remedy for the disease, and with good effect.
julesPlants use photosynthesis to make sugars out of water, CO2 and sunlight. But a plant cell (like any other cell) cannot use sugars for their cellular processes, it needs to break down the sugars and make ATP. Basically, the only difference between humans and plants in this chapter is that plants make their own sugars, while we get ours from food. But we still both need to use those sugars, and we do that through cellular respiration.
@douglebod
Fermentation is strictly defined as any way of anaerobically degrade pyruvic acid and recycle NAD+ to keep glycolysis going. You can then categorize this process as lactic acid fermentation (where pyruvate accepts electrons from NADH directly and becomes lactate), alcoholic fermentation (where pyruvate is first decarboxylated to acetaldehyde which then accepts electrons from NADH to become ethanol) and others (which are much more obscure). So technically, human cells are able to carry out lactic acid fermentation. Liver cells also have the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (responsible for ethanol formation in yeast and other fungi), but we use it in the reverse direction so to speak to get rid of any alcohol which we consume by converting it to pyruvate.
Plants however, can carry out alcoholic fermatation. They don't normally do it, because plants are usually in contact with oxygen. However, if you flood the root of a plant for about a week the cells are starved of oxygen, and because of this they will start carrying out alcoholic fermentation to survive.
-Andrei
very true
that is what my bio textbook says.
just to complete the last part
in alcoholic pathway ethanol forms a waste while the lactate formed in the lactate pathway can be broken down further. that is what leads to the oxygen debt
found here,
http://www.biology-online.org/biolog...bout16671.html
and,
Alcoholic Fermentation In Plants
By the following, which we find in the London Gardener's Chronicle, it will be seen that the discovery is somewhat akin to those of Prof. Burrill and others in this country:
"When plants are deprived of oxygen gas it appears that alcohol is formed in all their tissues without the aid of any ferment. If a vegetable cell containing sugar be cut off from its supply of oxygen - be suffocated, in fact - the sugar it contains becomes broken up or changed into carbonic acid, alcohol, and other products. Moreover, the various alcoholic ferments only produce their effects under the same conditions. Alcoholic fermentation, then, depends solely on the suffocation of a living cell containing sugar. Starting from these ascertained facts, M. Van Tieghem, in a recent number of the Annales Agronomiques, alludes to a peculiar disease in apple trees
due to a suffocation of the roots, followed by the production of alcohol in their tissues. On microscopic examination the tissues were found healthy, except the medullary rays, the cells of which, instead of containing starch or sugar, contained brown oily globules, the residue left after the formation of the alcohol, which latter is diffused throughout the root, tinging the cells of a characteristic brown color, and giving rise to an easily detected alcoholic odor.Judging from these appearances what was the nature of the disease, M. Van Tieghem made inquiries as to the character of the soil, and from this, as well as the fact that the season had been extremely wet, his diagnosis was confirmed, and he in consequence prescribed efficient drainage as the remedy for the disease, and with good effect.
I don't get why you would want alcohol in your plants. and fermentation is a very slow and low energy process you would compromise so much of your growth or barely any fermentation would happen. why wouldn't you use the plants own aerobic metabolism which metabolizes sugars much faster into C02 then fermentation. there is a reason why many growers recommend stopping the c02 and even reducing light level or long dark period prior to harvest, so the plant can burn through some of its stored sugars, at the fish farm we inject pure oxygen into the water because and it directly effects the growth rates and metabolism of the fish (infact oxygen directly affects the metabolism of all aerobic organisms) our lungs are so efficient at oxygenating our blood that giving us pure oxygen doesn't make any difference until we start using our oxygen faster then the lungs can replenish it through physical activity. you would think the best way to reduce the sugars prior to harvest would be to increase the oxygen not decrease it. I'm sure we all agree then sugars don't have the same benefit in the cannabis we smoke as the food we eat. burning sugar is probably not the most pleasant experience. the sweet taste we get from certain smoked cannabis comes from the terpenes and not the sugars which is also why I don't get the point of all these sweetening products. I agree with most of the other stuff you said. microbes both anerobic and aerobic play an important role in the curing of cannabis as well as oxidation from the plants own enzymes. you should really look into all the way tea is processed it valued a lot more for its essential oil content. tobacco is fermented in very warm and moist conditions while there is a lot we can learn for processing cannabis its probably not something that can be directly applied.
witchweed
Active Member
First of all id like to Thank Riddlem3 for great tips and techniques, I tried it with an outstanding results! Never looked back.
I had a great success with root drowning technique in a past, then wasnt growing for 5 or so years up until recently, I did what I was always doing, no flush and root drowning technique and.... I lost half of my harvest to mold - I nearly cried.... I wasn't reading any forums in a long time...
- "Do Not flush, wait till they are done and ready to harvest, water with boiling water, do not move! leave plant under the lights for 3 to 5 days it will fade quickly and take on a done look, chop & dry as you normally do"
How much boiling water do you usualy use? Would kettle be enough?
Is the lights on 24hours for 3-5 days after you put boiling water? Or can you leave it with other plants in 12/12 flower room?
Do you trim after you dry or after you chop?
I tried to Google boiling water on the roots with no results just b.s. talk.
Is there any links to boiling water technique?
Can't Thank you enough Riddle for nice 'n smooth smoke.
I had a great success with root drowning technique in a past, then wasnt growing for 5 or so years up until recently, I did what I was always doing, no flush and root drowning technique and.... I lost half of my harvest to mold - I nearly cried.... I wasn't reading any forums in a long time...
- "Do Not flush, wait till they are done and ready to harvest, water with boiling water, do not move! leave plant under the lights for 3 to 5 days it will fade quickly and take on a done look, chop & dry as you normally do"
How much boiling water do you usualy use? Would kettle be enough?
Is the lights on 24hours for 3-5 days after you put boiling water? Or can you leave it with other plants in 12/12 flower room?
Do you trim after you dry or after you chop?
I tried to Google boiling water on the roots with no results just b.s. talk.
Is there any links to boiling water technique?
Can't Thank you enough Riddle for nice 'n smooth smoke.
RM3
Well-Known Member
I use a quart of boiled water to a gallon of pot size, I don't move the plants and I trim during chop with lights on I do not know of any links?
RM3
Well-Known Member
Tis exactly the same thing that happens when you chop em, it's what plants do chemically when disconnected from oxygen. Leavin em under the lights gives em the energy to do it causin a fast fadeHarvesting Curing Drying - Take Back the Knowledge
There is an old hippie growers myth that says to soak the roots in water for 3 to 10 days before harvest this is not to be confused with the flush that everyone talks about (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always) the tip/myth is supposed to improve the quality of our smoke. I have to admit that I never paid it much attention until now because I have now proven it is not a myth and has some scientific validation.
What it amounts to is a way to start the cure prior to harvest while the plant is still alive. This is an incredible find as far as I am concerned and I can not wait to try it. what it amounts to is starving the plant of oxygen by drowning it, if in hydro take away the bubbles or spray fill the tank with water and wait, if in a pot either continuously water it (keep it wet/soaked) or stick the pot in a bigger bucket of water.
I need to add some background info as I'm getting ahead of myself, most of you know that if you add sugar and yeast together it ferments into alcohol giving off CO2. The basic definition of Fermentation is the act of breaking down sugars into alcohol and our plants do this internally thru a natural process even while growing. The act of fermentation is a oxidation/reduction process (explained in prior post) just as most plant functions seem to be. Also please be aware that N is needed for proper fermintation to take place.
Here is the info I found verifying that this old hippie myth is real,,,,,
MrMistery wrote
Plants use photosynthesis to make sugars out of water, CO2 and sunlight. But a plant cell (like any other cell) cannot use sugars for their cellular processes, it needs to break down the sugars and make ATP. Basically, the only difference between humans and plants in this chapter is that plants make their own sugars, while we get ours from food. But we still both need to use those sugars, and we do that through cellular respiration.
@douglebod
Fermentation is strictly defined as any way of anaerobically degrade pyruvic acid and recycle NAD+ to keep glycolysis going. You can then categorize this process as lactic acid fermentation (where pyruvate accepts electrons from NADH directly and becomes lactate), alcoholic fermentation (where pyruvate is first decarboxylated to acetaldehyde which then accepts electrons from NADH to become ethanol) and others (which are much more obscure). So technically, human cells are able to carry out lactic acid fermentation. Liver cells also have the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (responsible for ethanol formation in yeast and other fungi), but we use it in the reverse direction so to speak to get rid of any alcohol which we consume by converting it to pyruvate.
Plants however, can carry out alcoholic fermatation. They don't normally do it, because plants are usually in contact with oxygen. However, if you flood the root of a plant for about a week the cells are starved of oxygen, and because of this they will start carrying out alcoholic fermentation to survive.
-Andrei
very true
that is what my bio textbook says.
just to complete the last part
in alcoholic pathway ethanol forms a waste while the lactate formed in the lactate pathway can be broken down further. that is what leads to the oxygen debt
found here,
http://www.biology-online.org/biolog...bout16671.html
and,
Alcoholic Fermentation In Plants
By the following, which we find in the London Gardener's Chronicle, it will be seen that the discovery is somewhat akin to those of Prof. Burrill and others in this country:
"When plants are deprived of oxygen gas it appears that alcohol is formed in all their tissues without the aid of any ferment. If a vegetable cell containing sugar be cut off from its supply of oxygen - be suffocated, in fact - the sugar it contains becomes broken up or changed into carbonic acid, alcohol, and other products. Moreover, the various alcoholic ferments only produce their effects under the same conditions. Alcoholic fermentation, then, depends solely on the suffocation of a living cell containing sugar. Starting from these ascertained facts, M. Van Tieghem, in a recent number of the Annales Agronomiques, alludes to a peculiar disease in apple trees
Judging from these appearances what was the nature of the disease, M. Van Tieghem made inquiries as to the character of the soil, and from this, as well as the fact that the season had been extremely wet, his diagnosis was confirmed, and he in consequence prescribed efficient drainage as the remedy for the disease, and with good effect.
I don't get why you would want alcohol in your plants. and fermentation is a very slow and low energy process you would compromise so much of your growth or barely any fermentation would happen. why wouldn't you use the plants own aerobic metabolism which metabolizes sugars much faster into C02 then fermentation. there is a reason why many growers recommend stopping the c02 and even reducing light level or long dark period prior to harvest, so the plant can burn through some of its stored sugars, at the fish farm we inject pure oxygen into the water because and it directly effects the growth rates and metabolism of the fish (infact oxygen directly affects the metabolism of all aerobic organisms) our lungs are so efficient at oxygenating our blood that giving us pure oxygen doesn't make any difference until we start using our oxygen faster then the lungs can replenish it through physical activity. you would think the best way to reduce the sugars prior to harvest would be to increase the oxygen not decrease it. I'm sure we all agree then sugars don't have the same benefit in the cannabis we smoke as the food we eat. burning sugar is probably not the most pleasant experience. the sweet taste we get from certain smoked cannabis comes from the terpenes and not the sugars which is also why I don't get the point of all these sweetening products. I agree with most of the other stuff you said. microbes both anerobic and aerobic play an important role in the curing of cannabis as well as oxidation from the plants own enzymes. you should really look into all the way tea is processed it valued a lot more for its essential oil content. tobacco is fermented in very warm and moist conditions while there is a lot we can learn for processing cannabis its probably not something that can be directly applied.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
i just tried the boil. its kind of a pain in the ass, but it did what its supposed to. you do have a plant that takes up space you could put another plant in, but only for 4 or 5 days.
i cut it after 4 days and hung it like regular. it smelled better after just the dry than it usually does, a lot of the chlorophyll grassy smell was already gone. i jarred it all and after 3 days started testing little buds. they tasted and smoked like they had been in the jars 2 weeks. after a week i tried a bigger bud. same thing, tasted like it had been curing at least twice as long as it had been.
i'm not gonna say its a revolutionary new thing everyone has to try, but if you've got the room to leave the plant sitting for a few days, i'd suggest at least trying it before you say its bullshit
i cut it after 4 days and hung it like regular. it smelled better after just the dry than it usually does, a lot of the chlorophyll grassy smell was already gone. i jarred it all and after 3 days started testing little buds. they tasted and smoked like they had been in the jars 2 weeks. after a week i tried a bigger bud. same thing, tasted like it had been curing at least twice as long as it had been.
i'm not gonna say its a revolutionary new thing everyone has to try, but if you've got the room to leave the plant sitting for a few days, i'd suggest at least trying it before you say its bullshit
RM3
Well-Known Member
kachiga
Well-Known Member
I am still reading this and I am wondering if you still think this is true? I ask because I grow in Hydro with ebb and flow 2 gallon buckets. My water is right in a 55 gallon res tank, so I flood every 3-4 hours for 15 minutes. I had a power outtage while in a fill cycle, and my pumps never drained.
Any one who has ever over watered in hydro knows what I am talking about(I am sure you do as well). The DO is no longer in the water and the roots drown. They also start to form a white slime and you get your self root rot going. There are other things that start to happen as well with the top half of the plant. But you are introducing diseases to your plant with pathogens that thrive in such things.
Do you still feel to this day(I am still reading much of it, I came from your site) that drowning the roots for the last few days is the best thing to do?
Still reading, but wanted to ask that question while it was in my head.
I know it's old just cought me a bit
Plants roots need oxygen not co2. So the question should be do you think adding an O2 tank to the water to bubble it would help? That's the same question I have had for a bit. Seen "some guy" on "youtube" who does that. And I can't help thinking that water has a max amount of o2 that can be inserted into it to make DO(dissolved oxygen). Atleast just my thoughts.
Last edited:
RM3
Well-Known Member
this was years ago and drowning took too long and caused problems, biggest one being mold. We discovered that watering with boiling water gave us the same results with no problemsI am still reading this and I am wondering if you still think this is true? I ask because I grow in Hydro with ebb and flow 2 gallon buckets. My water is right in a 55 gallon res tank, so I flood every 3-4 hours for 15 minutes. I had a power outtage while in a fill cycle, and my pumps never drained.
Any one who has ever over watered in hydro knows what I am talking about(I am sure you do as well). The DO is no longer in the water and the roots drown. They also start to form a white slime and you get your self root rot going. There are other things that start to happen as well with the top half of the plant. But you are introducing diseases to your plant with pathogens that thrive in such things.
Do you still feel to this day(I am still reading much of it, I came from your site) that drowning the roots for the last few days is the best thing to do?
Still reading, but wanted to ask that question while it was in my head.
I know it's old just cought me a bit
RM3
Well-Known Member
There is no one link, it is talked about all over