The United States of Communism.

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LegalizeCannabisHemp

New Member
I saw this quote, feel free to argue this isnt where our country is headed.

"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised, and the state will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism"

Karl Marx~

Roll that up & smoke it!
:joint::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump:
:peace:
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
I hope Marx's quote is applicable to our present situation. I would love to see nationalization of banks and SOCIALIST tendencies. You use the word communist as if it's bad (and you incorrectly confuse socialism with communism), but what's so bad about it? You can cite a couple of countries as evidence to the evils of communism, but you can also find over 20 examples of socialist countries that all rank higher than the US is education, health care (and thus, life expectancy), poverty, etc.......

What do you think of these idea?
 
jfgordon1

jfgordon1

Well-Known Member
jrh72582 said:
I hope Marx's quote is applicable to our present situation. I would love to see nationalization of banks and SOCIALIST tendencies. You use the word communist as if it's bad (and you incorrectly confuse socialism with communism), but what's so bad about it? You can cite a couple of countries as evidence to the evils of communism, but you can also find over 20 examples of socialist countries that all rank higher than the US is education, health care (and thus, life expectancy), poverty, etc.......

What do you think of these idea?
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i'm sure the "good" socialist states you speak of are small. when they're a world power its not going to be a good thing. look at China and Russia... world powers gone wrong.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
jrh72582 said:
I hope Marx's quote is applicable to our present situation. I would love to see nationalization of banks and SOCIALIST tendencies. You use the word communist as if it's bad (and you incorrectly confuse socialism with communism), but what's so bad about it? You can cite a couple of countries as evidence to the evils of communism, but you can also find over 20 examples of socialist countries that all rank higher than the US is education, health care (and thus, life expectancy), poverty, etc.......

What do you think of these idea?
Click to expand...
Does your utopia allow people the opportunity not to participate?
If not how do you enforce participation in your system...violence?
 
I

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
You know what the diffrence between libritarians and socialists is? Libritarians can live with socialists, Socialists can't live the Libritarians. You can have all the Socialism you want. Just don't force me to participate. But you can't do that can you? I must be subjected to your government If you are to reap the benifts of my labor.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
 
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easygrinder

New Member
i think that a new name and a new society needs to come about, socialism, communism and capitalism all have areas that are bad, there needs to be something that encompasses the better points of all three.

Like the wealth should be shared around more, the little guy who makes the product in the first place always gets a pittance, but without those guys nothing would get done, so those guys need to have better wages, a cap should be put on bigger style businesses, like vodafone and other such massive companies that make billions of profit every year, these companies suck finances out of the economy, put them in bank accounts with low interst rates and the money is lost from the economy, this money should move somewhere else, like go into the tax system to remove taxes for lower earning families, don't get me wrong a guy should still be able to better himself and make something of life, in the capitalism way, but he shouldn't be able to let greed take hold and just put all that money away in the bank and have bullshit at his house that costs more than its really worth, he should live a good comfortable life.

but life at the moment seems that the small guys works as many hours as god sends to get by, pays all his taxes does everything by the book on how it should be done and gets screwed at every corner, while the people that are so rich can afford it, they find ways around it.

life should be a little more fairer to everyone were all here on the same planet doing the same shit
 
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ilkhan

Well-Known Member
"these companies suck finances out of the economy, put them in bank accounts with low interst rates and the money is lost from the economy,"

Nope, Money that goes into a bank is then loaned out to people buying cars and building/buying homes. Money never really leaves the economy unless you hide in in your matress.

OK, Short and sweet. I own my body and the labor of my hands. You are not entitled to any part of me or my property. Just as I am not entitled to any part of you or yours.

All I want from you is that you understand and want your freedom.
 
E

easygrinder

New Member
ilkhan said:
"these companies suck finances out of the economy, put them in bank accounts with low interst rates and the money is lost from the economy,"

Nope, Money that goes into a bank is then loaned out to people buying cars and building/buying homes. Money never really leaves the economy unless you hide in in your matress.

OK, Short and sweet. I own my body and the labor of my hands. You are not entitled to any part of me or my property. Just as I am not entitled to any part of you or yours.

All I want from you is that you understand and want your freedom.
Click to expand...
i think i referred to big businesses like telecommunications companies and such, not banks, the banks are a whole different entity, what i'm talking about is major conglomerate firms that use every trick and every tactic to take money from the little man at the end of the chain, all this profit goes into company accounts where it sits and sits and sits, and yes money does leave the economy, because it will go to foreign investors with offshore bank accounts,
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
jfgordon1 said:
i'm sure the "good" socialist states you speak of are small. when they're a world power its not going to be a good thing. look at China and Russia... world powers gone wrong.
Click to expand...
Those countries aren't worried about being world powers. Why should we?

And Canada and Britain are NOT small countries, relatively speaking. Neither is France. They are all socialist.

And don't fall down the slippery slope people. Just because we adopt socialist tendencies does NOT mean that the government will own your body and labor. You would see NO dramatic change from the current state of our nation and your daily experience if we were to adopt more socialist trends.

I say, bring it on..... Unless you're UBER rich, then socialism will only benefit you. I say, take the wealth from those who pillaged and raped to get it in the first place. They didn't earn it and it's not theirs (fired up yet?)
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
The problem with socialism, communism, capitalism, democracy, hegemony, etc. etc. etc. all comes down to the same problem..people. People are the ones who screw it up because they are individuals and many care only about themselves and their own families no matter what kind of gov't we have. As long as we have people we will have problems. The rule of Law has been very successful for many years now, but since bankers have come to rule our government it really isn't a republic anymore, it has become a democracy and ALL democracies in history have FAILED due to the fact that the population eventually just votes itself a free lunch ( Like printing money out of thin air to pay govt debts) and that lunch cannot be sustained for any meaningful amount of time and the system eventually collapses under it's own weight.

my 2 cents ( pre 1982 pennies BTW, they are worth 3c each so really its my .06 Cents)
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ilkhan said:
You know what the diffrence between libritarians and socialists is? Libritarians can live with socialists, Socialists can't live the Libritarians. You can have all the Socialism you want. Just don't force me to participate. But you can't do that can you? I must be subjected to your government If you are to reap the benifts of my labor.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
Click to expand...
A true socialist state cannot exist as long as greed is the driving motivation for mans existence. Even Karl Marx admitted that man would not be ready for socialism for at least a couple of hundred years. Here's a Marx quote: “The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.”
 
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nexcare

Well-Known Member
jrh72582 said:
Those countries aren't worried about being world powers. Why should we?

And Canada and Britain are NOT small countries, relatively speaking. Neither is France. They are all socialist.

And don't fall down the slippery slope people. Just because we adopt socialist tendencies does NOT mean that the government will own your body and labor. You would see NO dramatic change from the current state of our nation and your daily experience if we were to adopt more socialist trends.

I say, bring it on..... Unless you're UBER rich, then socialism will only benefit you. I say, take the wealth from those who pillaged and raped to get it in the first place. They didn't earn it and it's not theirs (fired up yet?)
Click to expand...
Everything that is pushing this government towards socialism is fucking illegal in the constitution for starters...

Many of the major problems of this country stem from socialistic thinking. Such as Clinton pushing for Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and other banks to start giving out loans to people who couldn't pay them back. You can't just give undeserving people money, and expect for the people who worked their asses off, and stayed in control of their budgets to pay it all off. It is ridiculous and should be criminal.

You think socialism is so good? Go try to see a doctor in Canada... I bet you can't get that operation you need within the next 10 months...

I like to have choices. I don't want an extremely overpowered government making 100% of choices, centrally. They do not know what is best for me, or even my general demographic...

I come from a well off family. I would consider our family, rednecks with money. Our money is also new money, and money our family has earned. You think my dad wants to help support somebody working behind the counter of a gas station, making shitty money, not working to elevate their lives; all the while, he has worked his ass off for 30 years, from rig builder to structural engineer for Transocean.

Fuck giving people hands out. I would have thought most people on this board would be open minded about religion, politics, etc. Because socialism and communism only cater to the weak, which goes against nature in itself(survival of the fittest).

Don't get me wrong, I am all about helping people, but I would like to choose who I help, and I don't want it bringing down my quality of life in the process.

My family helped numerous illegal families back in the early 90s to get a good life started. We would gave them $1000s of worth of stuff all the time, and made sure their kids had wonderful Christmas's. Those same families, once they got their lives established, basically became dickheads towards my family. Their kids, after 10 years of US education, still speak Spanish as their first language.

You can only be Mr. Nice Guy, and get walked on for so long. I enjoy working for a better life, and I would like to know that my hardwork isn't going to be simply divided up among people who didn't put in their share.

The biggest problem: PEOPLE NEED TO STOP LIVING OUTSIDE OF THEIR MEANS! Live the life that you have earned(you can still be a good person).
 
jfgordon1

jfgordon1

Well-Known Member
jrh72582 said:
Those countries aren't worried about being world powers. Why should we?

And Canada and Britain are NOT small countries, relatively speaking. Neither is France. They are all socialist.

And don't fall down the slippery slope people. Just because we adopt socialist tendencies does NOT mean that the government will own your body and labor. You would see NO dramatic change from the current state of our nation and your daily experience if we were to adopt more socialist trends.

I say, bring it on..... Unless you're UBER rich, then socialism will only benefit you. I say, take the wealth from those who pillaged and raped to get it in the first place. They didn't earn it and it's not theirs (fired up yet?)
Click to expand...
haha i was till you asked me... glad u asked it cuz i would have been writing a huge paragraph.. now im just going to ignore u lol
 
PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
The problem with socialism, communism, capitalism, democracy, hegemony, etc. etc. etc. all comes down to the same problem..people. People are the ones who screw it up because they are individuals and many care only about themselves and their own families no matter what kind of gov't we have. As long as we have people we will have problems. The rule of Law has been very successful for many years now, but since bankers have come to rule our government it really isn't a republic anymore, it has become a democracy and ALL democracies in history have FAILED due to the fact that the population eventually just votes itself a free lunch ( Like printing money out of thin air to pay govt debts) and that lunch cannot be sustained for any meaningful amount of time and the system eventually collapses under it's own weight.

my 2 cents ( pre 1982 pennies BTW, they are worth 3c each so really its my .06 Cents)
Click to expand...
Some 1982 pennies are copper;-) I save all pre-1982 pennies and put 82' threw the scale Test:lol:
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
jfgordon1 said:
haha i was till you asked me... glad u asked it cuz i would have been writing a huge paragraph.. now im just going to ignore u lol
Click to expand...
Ahhhh, not taking the bait, huh?:grin: The poster before you did. I got a rise out of him and he certainly fell down the slippery slope in his response. I hope he didn't hurt himself on the way down....

Anyway, you're cool Gordon. When sparking debate, I always play devil's advocate (it's the teacher in me). Some people get all offended and shit, but you take it in stride. Well played sir.
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
nexcare said:
Everything that is pushing this government towards socialism is fucking illegal in the constitution for starters...

Many of the major problems of this country stem from socialistic thinking. Such as Clinton pushing for Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and other banks to start giving out loans to people who couldn't pay them back. You can't just give undeserving people money, and expect for the people who worked their asses off, and stayed in control of their budgets to pay it all off. It is ridiculous and should be criminal.

You think socialism is so good? Go try to see a doctor in Canada... I bet you can't get that operation you need within the next 10 months...

I like to have choices. I don't want an extremely overpowered government making 100% of choices, centrally. They do not know what is best for me, or even my general demographic...

I come from a well off family. I would consider our family, rednecks with money. Our money is also new money, and money our family has earned. You think my dad wants to help support somebody working behind the counter of a gas station, making shitty money, not working to elevate their lives; all the while, he has worked his ass off for 30 years, from rig builder to structural engineer for Transocean.

Fuck giving people hands out. I would have thought most people on this board would be open minded about religion, politics, etc. Because socialism and communism only cater to the weak, which goes against nature in itself(survival of the fittest).

Don't get me wrong, I am all about helping people, but I would like to choose who I help, and I don't want it bringing down my quality of life in the process.

My family helped numerous illegal families back in the early 90s to get a good life started. We would gave them $1000s of worth of stuff all the time, and made sure their kids had wonderful Christmas's. Those same families, once they got their lives established, basically became dickheads towards my family. Their kids, after 10 years of US education, still speak Spanish as their first language.

You can only be Mr. Nice Guy, and get walked on for so long. I enjoy working for a better life, and I would like to know that my hardwork isn't going to be simply divided up among people who didn't put in their share.

The biggest problem: PEOPLE NEED TO STOP LIVING OUTSIDE OF THEIR MEANS! Live the life that you have earned(you can still be a good person).
Click to expand...
So much misinformation..... I'm not even going to being a rebuttal. You clearly have beliefs and will never change them for as long as you live. I am not in opposition to you, I just feel sorry for you. There's so much happiness in change and growth. If you remain dogmatically fixed in one position all of your life, then what will you truly be (besides brainwashed)? I hope that more people think outside of their experiences - I truly do. It opens up a whole new world. So please don't take my response as offensive. I do pity you, but in a kind way and not from a platform of hubris.
 
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nexcare

Well-Known Member
jrh72582 said:
So much misinformation..... I'm not even going to being a rebuttal. You clearly have beliefs and will never change them for as long as you live. I am not in opposition to you, I just feel sorry for you. There's so much happiness in change and growth. If you remain dogmatically fixed in one position all of your life, then what will you truly be (besides brainwashed)? I hope that more people think outside of their experiences - I truly do. It opens up a whole new world. So please don't take my response as offensive. I do pity you, but in a kind way and not from a platform of hubris.
Click to expand...

When my quality of life suffers, especially what I see it to be long term, I am not going to stand by and watch my quality of life snowball downhill, to help out people who didn't use their time to help themselves.

I wasn't put on this Earth to give other people a high quality of life, while mine suffers.
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
nexcare said:
When my quality of life suffers, especially what I see it to be long term, I am not going to stand by and watch my quality of life snowball downhill, to help out people who didn't use their time to help themselves.

I wasn't put on this Earth to give other people a high quality of life, while mine suffers.
Click to expand...
Does that include children born into unfortunate situations? I will ALWAYS stick up for the poor, underprivileged kids regardless of how low-life their parents are.

And BTW - you might wanna research Canada's healthcare system rather than rely upon what you're daddy told you.

While you're at it, research socialism. Hell, research anything...
 
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